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Who is Israel

Discussion in 'Faith and Religion' started by skyking, Jul 13, 2011.

  1. skyking

    skyking Monkey+

    To the average "christian" does the word Israel evoke any more emotions than just the country or the people .
    Who is Israel ? Is Israel important to your future?
  2. Sapper John

    Sapper John Analog Monkey in a Digital World

    Israel is absolutely important to our future...
    Ajax and skyking like this.
  3. skyking

    skyking Monkey+

    Abrahams seed

    I guess the question was to broad and actually has two directions it can go ,perhaps we can do both

    the first point is any believer in the Messiah will and should be considered Israel.
    Galatians 3

    26 For you are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus. 27 For all of you who were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ. 28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free man, there is [aj]neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus. 29 And if you [ak]belong to Christ, then you are Abraham’s [al]descendants, heirs according to promise.

    according to this your heir to Abraham promise .A covenant was made and is still binding correct?

    The second direction is the lost tribes.

    Abrahams Seed Dave Matthews This guy is a teacher/preacher from Mississippi and he'll make your head dizzy with all the information he's going to cover ,so....if you do listen have a pen and paper ready to copy vs and terms .I really like him as he's no non sense and will give you plenty to think about
    http://www.waytozion.org/teachings/David Mathews/Manna From Heaven Live - Abraham's seed.mp3
  4. skyking

    skyking Monkey+

  5. skyking

    skyking Monkey+

    Identity Crisis - Who is Israel?

    this is a longer presentation and much more in depth for those interested

    Jim Staley
    Identity Crisis - Who is Israel?

    series desription
    For two thousand years we have all been taught that Israel is the Jewish people and the Jewish people are Israel. This misunderstanding has crippled our ability to truly glean from the scriptures all that was originally intended. The greatest prophecy of the bible concerns this very topic. Many have called this teaching the key to understanding the entire bible. I will let Professor C.A.L. Totten of Yale University tell you his thoughts concerning this very subject:

    "I can never be too thankful to the Almighty that in my youth he used the late Professor Wilson to show me the difference between the two houses. The very understanding of this difference is the KEY by which almost the entire Bible becomes intelligible, and I cannot state too strongly that the man who has not yet seen that Israel of the Scripture is totally distinct from the Jewish people, is yet in the very infancy, the mere alphabet of Biblical study, and that to this day the meaning of seven-eighths of the Bible is shut to his understanding."—Professor C.A.L. Totten (1851-1908) of Yale University

    Identity Crisis - Who is Israel?
    full presentation
  6. -06

    -06 Monkey+++

    Jesus was teaching His followers inside a home and his Mother/siblings came up. A messenger came in and said that His family wanted to see Him. Jesus turned to the crowd and stated that they were His family because they followed Him. Blood relations do not make you a child of God/brother to Jesus. Being a believer/follower of Jesus does. That is the requirement for being a "Jew"--believing, not bloodline.
    Hispeedal2 and Sapper John like this.
  7. skyking

    skyking Monkey+

    part of the confusion in these matters stems from believers defining "jew"

    The first place the word "Jew" is used in Scripture is 2 Kings, where the Jews are at war with Israel.
    in most bibles yhat's over 500 pages into scripture before we see this word
    2 Kng 16:5-6 (KJV) "Then Rezin king of Syria and Pekah son of Remaliah king of Israel came up to Jerusalem to war: and they besieged Ahaz, but could not overcome him. At that time Rezin king of Syria recovered Elath to Syria, and drave* the Jews from Elath: and the Syrians came to Elath, and dwelt there unto this day."

    Jacob (Israel) fathered 12 sons. They are the tribes of Israel, and the ones for whom the tribes are named. Each occupied a separate territory, except the tribe of Levi, which was set apart to serve in the Holy Temple.

    The Twelve Tribes


    The tribe of Judah sprang from one man--Judah, who was only one of Israel's (Jacob's) children. They were later called the Jews. The Jewish people are only one-twelfth of the tribes of Israel.

    However, we can see that all Jews are Israelites but not all Israelites are Jewish.

    when Moses left Egypt he brought a mixed multitude

    the commandments-feast-statutes-blessings-curses-judgements -covenants that were written about in Exodus and Judges and Leviticus and Deuteronomy given to all those that believed with no designation to groups
  8. Hispeedal2

    Hispeedal2 Nay Sayer

    I think I understand where you are going with this. If I am correct, you are asserting that we are Israelites. As such, we are bound by the law in accordance with Gal 3. To me, it doesn't read the same when you read all of Gal 3. Here is some more context:
    The purpose of the law is clear- to pave the way for Jesus. Everything in the law is built around that purpose. Whether is be the health effects of eating cloven hoofed animals (they did not understand well done) or slaughtering all of the natives in the promised land (to keep the bloodline pure). Everything revolved around the coming of Jesus.

    As -06 said, Israelite isn't as good of a description, because we are what we are by Grace (brought by the sacrifice of the Lamb), not by bloodline. We still recieve the promise of Abraham (which is what verse 29 speaks of)... of course the promise of Abraham is freedom from the law and Grace through Jesus (verse 23).
    Ajax and Sapper John like this.
  9. Witch Doctor 01

    Witch Doctor 01 Mojo Maker

    I think he's saying...

    Roses are reddish
    violets are bluish
    if it wasn't for Jesus
    we'd all be Jewish....
    Ajax, Sapper John and Hispeedal2 like this.
  10. -06

    -06 Monkey+++

    WD 01, guess that about sums it up--lol.
  11. skyking

    skyking Monkey+

    What does “Grafted In” mean?

    What does “Grafted In” mean?

    “But I am speaking to you who are Gentiles. Inasmuch then as I am an apostle of Gentiles, I magnify my ministry… But if some of the branches were broken off, and you, being a wild olive, were grafted in among them and became partaker with them of the rich root of the olive tree, do not be arrogant toward the branches; but if you are arrogant, remember that it is not you who supports the root, but the root supports you.”
    – Romans 11:13, 17, 18, NASB
    A wonderful truth is being revealed here. What does it mean for Paul (Rav Sha'ul) to say that the ‘wild olive branch’ is grafted into the ‘cultivated olive tree’? The plain sense of the text is not easily confused:

    • Through the efficacious ministry of the Messiah Yeshua, Gentile believers (wild olives) are covenant–bound (grafted in) to Isra'el (Father Abraham’s Olive Tree). Therefore Gentile believers are fellow citizens and full-participants with the Commonwealth of Isra'el (Eph. 2) and are granted the divine privilege of following the entire Torah.
    • God has written this very same Torah upon every heart, Jew and Gentile, of those who have placed their trusting faithfulness in Yeshua (Jer. 31:31-34; Heb. 8:7-12).
    • this same Torah is a foundational revelation of the righteousness of God and serves as a description, along with the rest of the Scriptures, of the lifestyle of the Redeemed Community (James 1:16-27).
    • Furthermore, the words ‘Grafted In’ memorialize the affirmation of our true identity as a people, Jew and Gentile, securely rooted in the finished work of Yeshua HaMashiach.
    If you believe in Yeshua, you are Grafted In!
    What does Grafted In mean?
  12. skyking

    skyking Monkey+

    The Los Lunas Decalogue Stone

    little info from the other direction

    The Los Lunas Decalogue Stone

    Los Lunas NM Decalogue Inscription

    ‪Los Lunas Rock‬‏ - YouTube

    On June 14th 2009, The Ten Commandments were discovered in New Mexico in their original Ancient Paleo Hebrew language.



    The stone is said to be from the days when King Solomon reigned. So how did the Ten Commandments make it to America if this land had not been discovered yet? We will soon find out that after the death of King Solomon, there was a split in the once unified Nation of Israel. The Northern Kingdom of Israel were Ten Tribes who became known as "Ephraim" and the Southern Tribes (Judah, Benjamin and Levi) became known as "Judah." The House of Ephraim were ruled at that time by King Jeroboam, and the House of Judah were ruled by King Rehoboam (see 1st Kings 12).

    After King Solomon died, the Ten Tribes from the Northern Kingdom were scattered to the Nations. Some startling discoveries are made about where these 10 Tribes migrated to by reading one of the Apocrypha Books of Esdras:

  13. skyking

    skyking Monkey+

    Want to know your true family history

    this is a audio interview with Collins and if your interested in history and geneology as much as I am you'll find it a good listen.

    Want to know your true family history? The truth you aren’t supposed to know!

    Author Stephen M. Collins sets the record straight, bucking centuries of misdirection, half-truths, convenient misinformation and outright lies concerning Biblical history and the heritage of our people and the promises given to us and to our descendants. Much of the world was developed and explored under Kings David and Solomon. Clear evidence of Hebrew civilization in the “New World” prior to Christopher Columbus. Evidence of our people is found in the U.S., Mexico, China, Japan, Africa, Asia, Russia and Europe. He has written four books which provide evidence for the explorations and migrations of Israel in preparation for the greatest yet unfulfilled prophecy of the Bible – the return of the Northern tribes to Israel. The books are: The Origins And Empire Of Ancient Israel, Israel’s Lost Empires, Parthia the Forgotten Superpower and Israel’s Tribes Today – Where Are They?

    There's a lot of good info out there for those who have eyes to see and ears to hear.
    Steven Collins has published some excellent material on the subject.
    The book Judah's Sceptre and Joseph's Birthright by JH Allen Published in 1902 is also a great resource.
  14. skyking

    skyking Monkey+

    Ezra and the Lost Tribes: An Eye-Witness To History!

    Testimony from the American Indians by James Adair

    Chapter 13

    James Adair is the earliest source information concerning the American Indians. He observed several Israelite characteristics in the southern American Indians.

    James Adair was a backwoods preacher that lived and traded with the Southern Indians some forty years; he was called, by various writers, an Englishman, a Scotchman, and an Irishman. He was of a noble birth, whose family was of Earldom

    Ezra and the Lost Tribes: An Eye-Witness To History!

    Ezra and the Lost Tribes: An Eye-Witness To History!

    I include these more from the historical location ,I'll conclude with these for now

    Missouri Cherokee Tribes proclaim Jewish Heritage

    Missouri Cherokee Tribes proclaim Jewish Heritage
  15. Ajax

    Ajax Monkey++

    I believe that the American Indians were descendants from one of the tribes of Israel.

    It makes me wonder how the AI went so far from their original religious beliefs. On one side you can see some slight similarities with what they believed and with what the Bible teaches but still drastically different of course.

    I'm hesitant to read other books that were left out of the Bible we have today, other than the book of Thomas. They may be legit it just worries me if I'm not sure.
  16. skyking

    skyking Monkey+

    have you read the book of Enock and Jasher ?both are quoted by prophets
  17. wags_01

    wags_01 Monkey+

    There is zero evidence that any American Indian tribe share any distinctive genetic markers with any group of middle eastern people. Even the Mormon genetic researchers have come to this conclusion. See Simon G Southerton's 2004 Losing a Lost Tribe.
  18. Ajax

    Ajax Monkey++

    Not at this point. I think someone posted the book of Enoch on the forums here and I might start looking into that book.
    skyking likes this.
  19. skyking

    skyking Monkey+

    yeah I did over in the Nephilim thread here it is again

    The Book of Enoch

    The Lost Books
    The Lost Books of the Bible - The Hidden Truths
    The Lost Books of the Bible
    The Hidden Truth
    An Introduction
    Most followers of churches using the King James Bible feel they have the complete book with
    all the writings used by the first church and the nation of Israel before it.
    This work presents evidence that this is not true.
    The List
    We have compiled a list of hundreds of books mentioned in, or directly associated
    with, the Bible but not found in it. Most books are linked for online access.
    Anomalies In The Lost Books
    When viewed from the perspective of our technologically advanced society the power
    and amazing events described in the ancient writings take on a whole new image.
    Women Of The Lost Books
    The women of The Lost Books are a fascinating study.
    We present here a list of these dynamic and diverse women.
    Book Descriptions
    This is list of descriptions for several of the books listed on this site.
    The Missing Parts of The King James Bible
    One of the best kept secrets in the modern religious world is that only eighty percent
    of the King James Bible, as originally translated and published in 1611,
    is actually presented in the book the church uses as its foundation
    The Dead Sea Scrolls
    The writings of the Dead Sea Scrolls, with resources for study
    The Nag Hammadi Library
    The descriptions of the books of the Nag Hammadi Library, with resources for study
    Flavius Josephus
    The Antiquities of the Jews
    Considered by most scholars to be "The Historian", Josephus gives an eyewitness view point of the ancient world. The Ark, pyramids, ancient cities, and much more are covered in his works.
    The Lost Books of the Bible Series
  20. skyking

    skyking Monkey+

    your right I missed this post and credit goes to Melbo
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