Who's your favorite Preacher

Discussion in 'Faith and Religion' started by cdnboy66, Aug 7, 2013.

  1. cdnboy66

    cdnboy66 Monkey++

    I ask because I find that I often don't do well in "churches". If not for all those people the place would be perfect, and so I because of a number of factors, tend not to stay in one church long.
    I have tried, I have forgiven, I have been wrong....etc...etc...
    I was born and raised Anglican, and really enjoy the liturgy, but at times it becomes very rote and I really believe there is more relationship available with God than some churches allow in their worship.

    But I love listening to the word Preached. Not always fire and brimstone, though there are times.

    I have been fortunate to have heard or read some very good sermons and lessons in my day, but I still look for more.

    I almost think I should just truck off to bible school

    I was reading the Sermons of Fred Craddock for a while, and really enjoyed them.
    My sister has me on this fella Dr James Richards now, and he has my attention.
    I have hours to watch on youtube on a slow day, so pitch it.

    Who gets you into the word of God?? what teacher do you listen to,seek out and connect with??
    Geneva Exile likes this.
  2. kellory

    kellory An unemployed Jester, is nobody's fool. Banned

    The best preacher I ever knew, never did any you tubes, never failed to make me think, never made me wonder if he walked the path he spoke of. He was very good. So good, the church took him away, and left us with lesser men. He was needed elsewhere. Pastor Wilcox. In the last twenty years, I have never seen his equal.
  3. Seacowboys

    Seacowboys Senior Member Founding Member

    I listen to preachers about as much as I listen to used car salesmen and am equally inspired by them. Sorry.
    chelloveck likes this.
  4. Motomom34

    Motomom34 Monkey+++

    I listen to Charles Stanley. I watch him on TV on Sundays and I own some of his CD's. I truly find his message soothing and inspiring. He speaks in a way that really connects with me. And sometimes I don't think he cares for the current government.

    Youtube Page:
    Charles Stanley - YouTube
    jim2 likes this.
  5. The Reverend Gene Scott, although the "cussing preacher" is also highly amusing.

    I'm agnostic-atheist, but hey, you asked so I answered.
  6. cdnboy66

    cdnboy66 Monkey++

    Thank @Motomom34 , tuned in to him now, will give him a listen.
    Motomom34 likes this.
  7. BTPost

    BTPost Stumpy Old Fart,Deadman Walking, Snow Monkey Moderator

    If any human, thinks to get between Me, and My GOD, He is a fool, and I will have "No Truck" with him... and If he asks for MONEY, for his Services, then he has a different Agenda from what My GOD has, and I have "No Truck" with him...... If they spout their stuff on Tv, weekly..... I have "No Truck" with them..... If they spout their stuff, in their church, and THEN Pass a Collection Plate, I have "No Truck" with them.... Preachers who get PAID to preach Christ's Gospel, are NOT Welcome at my Fire, ever.... Now that said, GOD fearing Folks, who live by the WORD, that is plainly stated in His Book, are ALWAYS Welcome at my Fire..... ...... YMMV.....
  8. cdnboy66

    cdnboy66 Monkey++

    BT, I get that.

    I have heard a few preachers who "preach to me" and by that I mean, become a voice in the wilderness, the voice that speaks to me and is anointed to preach. Just to me ( even though it could be online, via print, or in a large auditorium.)

    When a "Man of God" can inspire me to go get the dusty book out and lookit up, he's doing what he was called to do and helping us look to and love God.
    (Maybe its just my learning style of watching, listening, doing)
    Not everybody learns the same way, so when I find someone that can speak truth and accountability and cause me to explore the vast richness of my faith while walking closer to Jesus, I want to be there.

    I have known people who were paid worship leaders, some of the most humble and Godly people I have ever had the privilege to know.

    There is a difference between it being a vocation and a calling, one pays well(sometimes), the other pays forever
  9. NotSoSneaky

    NotSoSneaky former supporter

    I remember The Reverend Ike on TV when I was a kid. The most memorable thing he ever said was "The lack of money is the root of all evil !". Then he launched into a talk about how God wanted him to have a new Cadillac, how he needed that new Cadillac and how you needed to pick up that phone right now and call so he could have that new Cadillac.

    I thought it was brilliant.

    These days I'll stick with my own interpetation of the bible.
    I've heard too many folk twist His words to their own benefit.

    Get yourself a nice Bible and seek your own answers.
    Sapper John likes this.
  10. Airtime

    Airtime Monkey+++

    Not endorsing anyone.... but you might find Rob Bell interesting and thought provoking. I haven't read his book but have seen many of his NOOMA series videos; very different. He tends to focus more on peace, love and forgiveness in the quest to live Christ's message and less on following rules, judging and a quest for heaven.

  11. dnbailey

    dnbailey Monkey

    BT- preachers have to eat, too. There are some who take advantage of their congregations and that is horrible. That being said, God set forth the structure of a church with the idea that the pastor's job is to feed the flock.

    Anyway, check out Jerry Jones, Anthony Mangun, Jeff Arnold. All spectacular.
  12. BTPost

    BTPost Stumpy Old Fart,Deadman Walking, Snow Monkey Moderator

    Preachers can work, just like everyone else, to support themselves..... Many do.... Just what purpose does a Preacher fill in your life? Does he forgive your Sins, for Money? Does he tell you what the Books says? You would be much better off, to READ the Book, for yourself, and get closer to Your GOD, thru your Personal Prayers, than to depend on some other Yahoo, to tell you, what he thinks the Book Says, and take your Money for the experience. The Preacher will never save you from SIN.... Only your Personal Relationship with your GOD, will save your Soul, or as the Book Says, Many will call "Lord, Lord" but the Lord says, Who are you? I never knew you.... Oh, I knew your Preacher.... but just who are you? Never let ANYONE, get between you and your GOD....

    What does the Book say about Preaching for Money..... Something about, No one feeds the Little Birdies, and they get along just fine.... So just why should People PAY a Preacher, unless they are illiterate, and can not read the Book, for themselves, like in the Middle Ages.... If that is the case, they do not need a Preacher, they need a TEACHER, to Teach them to READ.... Every Man must work out his Own Salvation, by the Grace of HIS GOD..... ..... YMMV....
    Mindgrinder likes this.
  13. Airtime

    Airtime Monkey+++

    BT, Certainly not going to argue as I think for many situations the tendered assumptions and arguments are indeed apropos. I do not think they apply for all situations and all preachers.

    You asked rhetorically just what a preacher does in one's life? I can't answer for all, just for myself and what I have observed directly with my family and close friends.

    Does he forgive my sins for money? Nope, doesn't even do it for free.

    Does he tell me what the book says? Yes, but the pastor also points us to various passages to find the guidance we may be seeking for ourselves, and read it ourselves, and to read it at home.

    You suggest we would be better getting closer to God such as through prayer and to work out one's own salvation. Interesting, that's the same message I have heard from the preachers in my and my family's life.

    I derive, quite possibly incorrectly from your posting, an impression that a preacher is an intermediary between God and the believer. For the preachers, military Chaplins and rabbis I've personally known well, probably about 30, none of them were go-betweens in the middle between God and the people. A good coach does not win a baseball game, the players actually on the field do but the coach helps guide them. The clergy I've known were not much different. They were accomplished coaches/teachers skilled in helping and encouraging people to accomplished exactly the various things you said people need to do.

    So, why pay them? A coach/teacher can learn to be more effective with training and with practice. We know a welder who has training and welds regularly will be more successful than someone who read "Welding for Dummies" and does a little lawnmower repair once a year. In the case of my family's church, in the 1880's we gave a pastor a home to use and 35 acres to farm and didnt pay him. Now, the congregation has grown to about 200 families and rather than have a dozen or more shade tree welders coach us, we have opted for a trained and much more experienced coach who does this full time to help us. We perceive he will be more successful in getting us to seek forgiveness, to seek salvation and too often over looked to try and spread the message to be kind, loving and forgiving examples.

    I think that is the case for many churches and preachers. But as I often read on this site... I'm just sayin. ;-)

    Alf60, jim2 and kellory like this.
  14. Mindgrinder

    Mindgrinder Karma Pirate Ninja|RIP 12-25-2017

  15. Mindgrinder

    Mindgrinder Karma Pirate Ninja|RIP 12-25-2017

    Why would you capitalize sins?
    Anyway...I agree with BT on this one pretty much completely.
    If everyone tithed 10% of their wages, for every 100 people in a church the pastors revenue would be that of 10 men.
    Ridiculous and highly likely to lead to corruption.

    If you wanna get to know JC...try talking to Him.
    If you wanna see Gods fingerprints, grow a sunflower.
    If you need proof that true love is worth dying for...throw a rock at a baby bear while mama bear is watching.
  16. Minuteman

    Minuteman Chaplain Moderator Founding Member

    I agree with BT in that one does not need an intermediary (human) between them and God. This is an age old Catholic dogma that is not scriptural. The only intercessor is Christ who by his sacrifice earned the right to intercede on our behalf with the creator. He is our High Priest and is the only mediator between God and man.
    John 14:6
    Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

    As to paying a preacher I have to disagree with BT. It is scriptural that those who preach the good news (gospel) are to be supported by their flocks. When Christ began to send out his disciples he gave them the command to take nothing for their sustenance. However he also told them to share in the duties of those who supported them. ie doing chores etc. They were not to be a burden to their benefactors.

    "Take nothing for the journey—no staff, no bag, no bread, no money, no extra shirt. Whatever house you enter, stay there until you leave that town. If people do not welcome you, leave their town and shake the dust off your feet as a testimony against them." (Luke 9:3-5)

    This is not to say that preachers for profit today are fleecing their flocks at God's direction. But the care and sustenance of a preacher of the gospel is to be provided for.
    I had a debate once on this subject. A very vocal young man was going on about how you shouldn't ever give money to preachers or churches and how they convinced little old ladies and widows to send in their life's savings while they lived lavish lifestyles.
    My argument was this; You have to look at that through biblical glasses. The widow who graciously gives her money to "the Lord" is making a sacrifice, a tithe to God, a sacrifice that will be greatly rewarded. An investment that will come back to her ten fold in blessings. In this life or the next. But her gift is selfless and greatly esteemed in God's eyes.

    The Widow’s Two Mites

    21 And He looked up and saw the rich putting their gifts into the treasury, 2 and He saw also a certain poor widow putting in two mites. 3 So He said, “Truly I say to you that this poor widow has put in more than all; 4 for all these out of their abundance have put in offerings for God,[a] but she out of her poverty put in all the livelihood that she had.”

    Now the "man of God" who accepts that honored sacrifice , if he does not use it to further Gods works. To provide for the flock that he is the Shepard of, or if he uses it for his own personal gain, he will reap the punishment and the wrath for his actions.

    Giving tithe to God, supporting ministries, sustaining the workers of God is a scriptural and important part of a true Christians life and is certainly scripturally based and sanctioned. Those who do those things as we are commanded, to feed the hungry, give to widows and orphans, to further promote the spreading and preaching of the Gospel of salvation, those people will be blessed for their gifts. Their sacrifices will be honored.
    Those who receive those tithes and offerings will likewise be held accountable for their use of them. The stewards will be judged and many will find a fierce and swift punishment for their misuse of the gifts of God's children.

    Mathew chapter 25:30
    30 And cast ye the unprofitable servant into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

    As to the function of a preacher, I agree that their duty is more of a teacher, a leader, a Shepard. Not an intercessor. When I received my ordination I was asked what title I wanted on it. I refused to have the typical "Reverend" title. I believe that God alone is reverent, due reverence, not any human. I took and use the title "Pastor" from the Latin meaning literally "to feed" or to be a Shepard.

    It is my personal belief (YMMV ;) ) that a minister, preacher, pastor is an essential part of ones Christian life and journey. A pastor fulfills the command to;
    II Timothy 2:15 “Study to show yourself approved unto God, a workman that needs not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.”.

    Yes you can simply read the book yourself, and I encourage everyone I minister to to do just that. But one cannot, just by reading, learn all the many mysteries that are scripture. I have studied in depth the holy writ for many decades and still have my eyes opened to new meanings and inferences by others. I believe God meant it that way. To diligently study to "rightly divide the word of truth". While on the other hand I don't believe in letting any human tell you what the bible says. I start a lot of my lectures and sermons with the admonition to "Don't believe one word I am about to tell you". This gets quite a reaction from people at times. But I think it is an important concept. Don't accept what any flawed human tells you as truth. Hear them, consider them, then go and look it up and read it yourself. We are admonished to have a "Berean spirit.

    Now these were more noble-minded than those in Thessalonica, for they received the word with great eagerness, examining the Scriptures daily to see whether these things were so. (Acts 17:11)

    One of Charles Schulz's cartoons shows the teenager lying on the floor with an open Bible. He says to his sister, “Don’t bother me I'm looking for a verse of Scripture to back up one of my pre-conceived notions.”

    This is the reason that preachers are needed. True Berean spirit preachers who constantly study to see if a thing is true or not. And to share those insights and lessons with his flock. Too many times people take scripture out of context to justify their own ideas, prejudices or positions.

    There is a concept, or a doctrine in Christianity that scripture is a living thing that changes with time. I see it more as it being applicable to certain times more than others. Scripture says that some things are "sealed" until the time that it is meant for. If, as we believe, a creator that transcends time, that proves his reality by "telling the ending from the beginning". A God that can see down the avenue of time itself, would have certainly revealed in his word, messages meant for his people in future times. Meant to be read and understood by a certain people, at a certain time, in a certain place. These messages, and truths, are only found by diligent study. And are to be taken in a Berean mindset and proven whether true or not.

    Back to the OP. When I was a young man and first found salvation I was a hellraiser, sex drugs and rock and roll, biker trash, roughneck. I had long hair and had nothing in common with "those Christians".
    I found early on a few rebels like myself that taught me that Christians could be cool. They weren't the Pat Boone, vanilla, Billy Graham types I had seen growing up.
    My first introduction to "cool" Christians was Mike Warnke. If you can find any of his early sermons then I would highly recommend them. He was an ex satanist, Vietnam vet, drug addict. He became one of the first (I ever heard of anyway) Christian comedians. His routines are hilarious yet end with a pointed message.

    Next I discovered Jeff Fenholt. He was a rock and roller who did some early work for Black Sabbath and later had the starring role in the Broadway musical "Jesus Christ Superstar". He became a preacher and I used to watch him on TV.

    Another rock and roll, long haired rebel was Kerry Livgren, the lead singer for the group Kansas. He became a Christian and a preacher and cut a couple of solo albums that I used to listen to a lot.

    My very first radio preacher that I remember listening to was Garner Ted Armstrong. He was on the AM radio late at night and I used to lay in my bed and listen to him when I was a kid.
    GTA certainly wasn't the 70's rebel, he was as mainstream, in looks anyway, as they come. But his message was radical and rebellious and I highly recommend his teachings. I don't agree 100% with everything he preached but I had instilled in me from his teachings the motivation, or the impetus I guess that I have to question the norm and the mainstream.

    When I became a Christian and began to seriously study, I was amazed at the things I had always believed, I had been told, were in the bible that weren't. I hear so many arguments where people "quote" things or doctrines that are simply not true or not supported by scripture. But they have been told that "the bible says".

    A strong preacher, teacher, minister, pastor is needed to counter such false teachings with diligent study and truth. And a full time minister of a congregation should be supported by that congregation, IMHO. And of course YMMV.
    jim2, oldawgswoman, BTPost and 5 others like this.
  17. Minuteman

    Minuteman Chaplain Moderator Founding Member

    Tithes to a church are not direct wages for the pastor. An organized church is just that an organization. Any monies collected goes to the operation of the organization. The distribution of those funds are overseen by a committee and all of the overhead and expenses for running the organization are allocated by them. The pastors salary, which is normally very low, (compensated by a tax free status, free housing and many times a "company" car.) is voted on by the committee. Much like a board of directors with a CFO responsible for financial oversight and the Pastor being a CEO with very limited authority. Most Pastors are invited to a church and serve at the whim of the board and the elders.
  18. Mindgrinder

    Mindgrinder Karma Pirate Ninja|RIP 12-25-2017

    Thanks for the Corporation of Christ breakdown.

    Best Paid Pastors Make Hundreds Of Thousands To Millions Of Dollars Annually

    6 Outrageously Wealthy Preachers Under Federal Investigation - NakedLaw by Avvo.com

  19. Minuteman

    Minuteman Chaplain Moderator Founding Member

    Matthew 7:22

    21"Not everyone who says to Me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father who is in heaven will enter. 22"Many will say to Me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name cast out demons, and in Your name perform many miracles?' 23"And then I will declare to them, 'I never knew you; DEPART FROM ME, YOU WHO PRACTICE LAWLESSNESS.'

    Mathew chapter 25:30
    30 And cast ye the unprofitable servant into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

    Judging the whole by the misdeeds of a few is a ludicrous argument. No different than judging all Christians by the actions of the like of Westboro Baptist Church or all Muslims by Al Queda.
    Those who do misdeeds in the name of God will be punished, either by man or certainly by God. And woe to them at the day of judgement.
    jim2, BTPost and Icefoot like this.
  20. Minuteman

    Minuteman Chaplain Moderator Founding Member

    Icefoot likes this.
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