Will the police-troops fire upon us citizens?

Discussion in 'Freedom and Liberty' started by UGRev, Mar 2, 2011.

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  1. UGRev

    UGRev Get on with it!

    Falcon15 likes this.
  2. Brokor

    Brokor Live Free or Cry Moderator Site Supporter+++ Founding Member

    Yes. No doubt about it. A few wouldn't, but just like true democratic fashion, the majority rules and its just too bad for the rest...

    Police, definitely. They are lowering the requirements by the second for those jobs. Pretty soon we will be shoved along and poked and prodded by chimpanzees if this continues. Come to think of it, I prefer the chimpanzees.
    Cephus likes this.
  3. TnAndy

    TnAndy Senior Member Founding Member

    Depends on the degree. Open, widespread warfare ? Doubt it. But there are of examples of smaller incidents ( Kent State )

    Same with cops.....going to depend on the situation.
  4. UGRev

    UGRev Get on with it!

    You didn't read the essay, did you?
  5. mysterymet

    mysterymet Monkey+++

    I didn't agree with his comments about people in the military being more easily brainwashed. If it were me staring down the mob as long as they weren't violent towards us I would not fire. I wonder if the guy who wrote that has ever spent a day in uniform. He doesn't seem to understand military people much.
  6. Falcon15

    Falcon15 Falco Peregrinus

    Police officers would. Those who would not would either be turned on by their own or ousted and then treated to like treatment. Many police officers that I am friends with would leave the force or disobey the order to open fire on - qualified with the statement - unarmed and "peaceful" people, basically in defense of their life or the life of an "innocent". That accounts for a fraction of a fraction of a percentage of police officers. The rest, as an unknown must be evaluated on a broad brush spectrum of merits. So far, not so good.
  7. TailorMadeHell

    TailorMadeHell Lurking Shadow Creature

    I second the fact that if it remains peaceful then I won't be shooting anyone. If I am attacked then by all means, be assured I will put down the threat. I am not a brainwashed, wishy-washy, robot. I follow "legal" orders. Now when those "legal" orders don't make much sense and peaceful people are being hunted, then they aren't "legal" anymore. Will admit that I didn't fully read the article though I know that there are a lot of guys that wear the uniform who feel just like me. It is the same argument with the LEO side of the house. You will and do have those that hide behind the badge and think they are bigger people for using it against citizens. However, there are many that are good and will not go against common decency and common sense. In those fields you have to ask yourself, what would you do if you saw someone doing that to your family? I for one, will be standing on the right side.
    BTPost and Falcon15 like this.
  8. UGRev

    UGRev Get on with it!

    when did you serve? I'm pretty sure he did too, but a lot of the new blood soldiers are easy to brainwashed as 90% have been programmed to not critically think.
  9. Brokor

    Brokor Live Free or Cry Moderator Site Supporter+++ Founding Member

    Yup. Incompetence is rampant these days. The rules are now designed for the dumbest instead of being based on the best, as it was twenty years ago. It's a veritable quagmire of stupidity and I am glad to be done with it.

    Police can't be doing too much better, especially with prisons being built at rapid pace and inmate populations rising like the plague...they are doing their jobs as they are meant to -raising money for their corporate masters and turning Americans into criminals without rights. It's a sickening and twisted game. And the real dung-heap of it all is that this society has been so disarmed and become dependent upon police for "protection", that it really is a checkmate situation. We never needed them in the first place, but here we are after the height of the days of prohibition and now the mafia is running everything.

    *** And I wanted to say to all the police who do frequent here, that you guys aren't included in my synopsis, not entirely. You guys are the best of the best. Every day you watch as the system corrodes around us, with filth and slime within your own ranks, and the feeling of being utterly powerless to change it. In small towns, it might not be as bad, but it's always getting worse...that much is certain. ***
    Capt. Tyree likes this.
  10. Idahoser

    Idahoser Monkey+++ Founding Member

    "brainwashed" is what the majority of Americans, including those in the military and police, would consider those of us who believe the Constitution is being violated by our government. They do not understand that they are on the wrong side.

    And that is not going to change in any significant way, and that's why things are never going to really get better. They will get their way.
  11. mysterymet

    mysterymet Monkey+++

    Currently guard. Have been deployed to dirka dirka-stan. Working with the active duty "kids" is an interesting experience. Most of them are good people, professional and young but you need that youth and energy. War is a young person's sport. I think that the military personnel would be as concerned about their families as the rest of the population. Also concerned for the safety of their fellow soldier or airman woul govern much of their behavior. Shoot at us ad we shoot back plain and simple. working in maintnenance many of the active kids like have us guard people around due to the experience level of our people. I think it would be impossible to predict what the guard and the rest of the military will do. It's a matter of do you trust your officers... I trust mine more than I trust those politicians. Btw trying to type on this mini keyboard is killing me...
  12. dragonfly

    dragonfly Monkey+++

    The officers I know would NOT shoot at any American unless it came down to them being shot at or threatened with same. My son and a lot of my friends are adamant about this.
  13. Falcon15

    Falcon15 Falco Peregrinus

    The dumbest and least skilled. Just like our publicly funded skools. The biggest lament that commanders in Vietnam had were the crappy riflemen that the troops were. Seems Old Uncle Sugar wanted their troops able to point and click on full auto. Qualifications for riflemen have dropped in the past 50 - 60 years, steadily.

    People need to realize the truth of these words. I have SEVERAL current and former LEO friends who have either quit/retired or are getting ready to quit/retire because the work, as it stands today, leaves a bad taste in their mouths.

    KUDOS and AMEN. The LEO's here are the aware ones. Same with the active military who frequent here. These are people who remember that orders must be lawful and their oath was to protect and defend the US CONSTITUTION.

    I recommend any current/former Military read this article:
    To Obey or Not to Obey

    Good reminder on the UCMJ and your oath. Any LEO should think back and remember the oath THEY took.

    Both should examine that oath and weigh it in their hearts.

    Just my .02 FRN's
    Brokor likes this.
  14. Pyrrhus

    Pyrrhus Monkey+++

    While I am disappointed with the level of education and critical thinking present in junior troops these days, it is wholly wrong (not inaccurate, wrong) to state that the military is set up for the "dumbest and least skilled". Probably at least a third of high school grads are incapable of passing the ASVAB with a minimum score, even after multiple attempts. So logic requires that group be tagged with the moniker of "dumbest and least skilled". Someone's been digesting too much John Kerry.
    While there exists a critical shortfall in education and critical thinking, my personal lament regarding junior Marines is the utter lack of an moral foundation (this is their parents' faults). Napoleon stated that the moral is to the physical, as three is to one, so one can see that we have a big problem.
    There are undoubtedly some military members and LEOs who would fire on unarmed civilians (Kent State is a poor example-if one reads the history, it is clear that many more students SHOULD have had 5.56 millimeter rounds providing ventilation to their bodies), but probably just as many would shoot the one who gave the order.
  15. NVBeav

    NVBeav Monkey+++

    Just glazing over the article, I can only mention one thing that sticks in my mind pertaining to firing on your own citizens...

    During the Tiananmen Square demonstrations, the Chinese soldiers who fired on their own people had to be brought in from Southern China into Beijing because the local soldiers would not shoot.

    Locally in my neck-o-the-woods, policemen being hired are heavily screened -- potentially only those with the "follow orders w/out thinking" mentality are the ones chosen... I only bring this up because of personal experiences; a man's ego is a stong influence to his own deception, and many have an extreme ego.
  16. Brokor

    Brokor Live Free or Cry Moderator Site Supporter+++ Founding Member

    I quote from the article:
    I don't especially see this as a contest about who should be classified as "most dumb", but as an argument about why they are not as smart as we are. After all, it was we who have come from the ranks of the military and speak about the declining intelligence and competence of our soldiers, aren't we qualified to make this assessment? By turning your argument toward semantic reasoning, the validation of the entire argument isn't necessarily proven to be false; it merely begs another question to be answered. The question posed then, is "who is to blame for the current status of our intellectually challenged recruits?" Do we simply blame parents, or do we point the finger at the government sponsored education itself? Perhaps it's something more sinister like fluoridated water or lithium induced lobotomies from the tap and medications mandated by authorities who shouldn't even be in an authoritative position? By falling into this trap, we lose focus of the real purpose of the argument presented. It's not the level of stupidity and the manner in which it is defined, but the fact it exists at all and is in high demand these days. I would like to give a simple response, and I would also like to obtain a clear answer, but it appears most likely there are more reasons than many of us would like to admit. After we are finished drudging through this mess with handling the causes which may have created the symptoms, we might even turn our attention to the corporate owned media and the incorporated cartels who seek to profit from a consumer zombie populace that can be influenced like sheep and slaughtered at will or for amusement. And isn't it too bad that it is primarily our lower and middle classes (now practically entirely merged into one serfdom) who are the ones who do most of the fighting and dying? In conclusion, I have to admit that if we can in the very least admit we are better off intellectually than the challenged youth in our culture, I would count your argument invalid, at least in part. After all, the proverbial "egg" is the level of intellect in question and the "chicken" just happens to be the fact that massive reduction in intelligence and competence exists in our military in the first place.

    Falcon15 likes this.
  17. UGRev

    UGRev Get on with it!

    I would also submit that the vast majority the "chickens" (of your chicken and egg posit) in the military, the young ones, were recruited from lower class, impoverished, areas. The lack of ability to critically think makes them perfect drones.

    You won't find as many drones, per say, in some place like West Point. Those places produce higher functioning drone delegates.

    I also now find my self in a difficult spot. I thank people in the military all the time for their service. Both young and old.. yet, I look down upon a specific demographic, as discussed here, and find myself in a state of hypocrisy. I'm not sure what the solution is to this one, but I do thank them for their service to this country; I just fear their service is misplaced because of the inability for the leaders of rank to stand their ground. This also leads me to believe that (speaking of leaders)
    1. they're in on it
    2. they don't care
    3. they're just as programmable.
    Capt. Tyree, Falcon15 and Brokor like this.
  18. Brokor

    Brokor Live Free or Cry Moderator Site Supporter+++ Founding Member

    Well said Rev.
  19. BAT1

    BAT1 Cowboys know no fear

    Oath breakers will start it, Oathkeepers will end it. The answer to 1984 is 1776.
    tacmotusn, melbo, IrishMonk and 3 others like this.
  20. UGRev

    UGRev Get on with it!

    When the oathkeepers banned me from their forums for repeatedly asking why we should NOT post or discuss political items, I began to question the integrity of the organization; not necessarily the people who are members, but the organization. It took 3 days to get an answer and I was banned thusly. The answer was, apparently, they were too chicken **** to speak out or enable active military to partake in expressing a contrarian view to the predominant view of the military's or the admin under which the military serves. I found this... not so funny.
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