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Will the police-troops fire upon us citizens?

Discussion in 'Freedom and Liberty' started by UGRev, Mar 2, 2011.


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  1. Falcon15

    Falcon15 Falco Peregrinus

    Rev,
    Just pointing out, an Oathkeeper is NOT a member of an organization, necessarily. While the Organization does sound good, an oath keeper, by the strictest sense of the phrase, is a person who shall keep their oath, no matter the cost to self, once given. I am an Oath Keeper. I am not a member of an organization. It is a similitude:
    All members of the NRA are gun owners, but not all gun owners are members of the NRA.
    All members of "Oathkeepers" are oath keepers, but not ALL oath keepers are members of Oathkeepers.
     
    tacmotusn and BTPost like this.
  2. UGRev

    UGRev Get on with it!

    Your point is well made and duly noted. I, however, felt compelled to speak specifically about the organization. I thought you were speaking of this as well, so pardon my assertion that you meant the org.

    That aside, my statement stands with regards to the Org.
     
  3. Falcon15

    Falcon15 Falco Peregrinus

    I did understand your point, however I was trying to clarify the stand of being an oath keeper without necessarily being a member of an org.
     
  4. UGRev

    UGRev Get on with it!

    Crystal.. and we should now both be on the same page ;)
     
  5. IrishMonk

    IrishMonk Monkey+

  6. Falcon15

    Falcon15 Falco Peregrinus

    As a matter of fact, I do. One of my very good friends and fellow prepper is a former Sergeant of the NOPD - SWAT division. They (the SWAT division) were ordered to confiscate weapons by their superiors. ALL members of this individual's team adamantly refused. Matter of fact this was RAMPANT in New Orleans, post Katrina. It is well documented and not very well known, because the MSM keeps a lid on it.
     
  7. Cephus

    Cephus Monkey+++ Founding Member

    The New York riots back around the Civil War
    The Bonus Marchers 1932
    These are the worst ones I can think of that the Gov. has committed ,but I'm sure they can always improve with what they have to work with now .
     
  8. VisuTrac

    VisuTrac Ваша мать носит военные ботинки Site Supporter+++

    Oh yes they will because MountainMan's sig line says it all

    "There's no way to rule innocent men. The only power government has is the power to crack down on criminals.
    Well, when there aren't enough criminals, one makes them. One declares so many things to be a crime that it becomes impossible for men to live without breaking laws."
    Ayn Rand

    That's all I have to say 'bout this at this time. Back under my rock.
     
  9. Minuteman

    Minuteman Chaplain Moderator Emeritus Founding Member

    A common tactic, one we are seeing right now in Libya, is to use foriegn troops to control local populations. They have no ties to those they are ordered to control. Therefore less likely to balk at using lethal force.

    If (IMHO) the US ever suffers a major catastrophe, natural, economic, terrorist, or military, then I have no doubt that foreign "peacekeepers" would be utilized to "restore order". There is a long precedent of this being trained for at least, if not actually prepared for.

    That combined with the aforementioned recruitment of soldiers from areas with a lower regard for personal rights, morality and human life makes for a very effective force to use against any who are deemed "enemies of the state,peace,people etc."

    History is rife with examples of segments of a population being deemed the enemy and hunted, killed, imprisoned. All with the consent and approval of most of the population at large.

    And Irishmonk and Cephus are absolutely correct, it has happened right here in our country, many times. As far back as the founding of our nation. The patriots who gave us the land of the free and the home of the brave were considered outlaws, rebels, enemies of the crown. Those 3% of the population were oft times turned in, hunted, down, and out right killed by the vast majority of their own countrymen thinking they were doing the "right" thing. Or in the least turning a blind eye when the forces of the king wrought vengeance on those troublemakers.

    To think that we have come so far as a nation that we would never let that happen again is pure fantasy.
     
  10. IrishMonk

    IrishMonk Monkey+

    Kent State University in the 60s when the National Guard fired on unarmed peaceful protesting students.
     
  11. mysterymet

    mysterymet Monkey+++

    Depends on what the definition of peaceful is. Is rock throwing peaceful? How about surrounding the soldiers with hundreds of people and intimidating them? In this case being surrounded by a screaming angry group of people can make someone fear for their safety.
     
  12. Witch Doctor 01

    Witch Doctor 01 Mojo Maker

    If foriegn troops were brought in to "pacify" the US like in libya... i doubt many if any US troops/LEO's would stand by and allow it... I also doubt that not many if any individuals would ever willingly give up their firearms to foriegn troops... just my humble opinion as a former military officer and LEO...
     
  13. krieger

    krieger Monkey+

    Law Enforcement would do exactly what they are trained to do, " Follow Orders ". From day one at the academy they are taught to follow orders from superior officers. To keep their jobs, they follow orders. Ever notice how LEO's refer to everyone else as a " civilians " ? They do this to seperate themselves as a unique, distinct group.
     
  14. Cephus

    Cephus Monkey+++ Founding Member

    I was in the service at that time and I can tell it was hell on us when we came home from southeast Asia from those same people.
    I don't say it was right to shoot unarmed people but when you are out numbered 5 to one and people are calling out kill the them and you are the them ,well you get the point.
    So it's hard to say what you would do until you're put in that puzzle .
     
  15. Pyrrhus

    Pyrrhus Monkey+++

    Interlocution would perhaps be better served by brevity than loquaciousness.

    I addressed your statement about the "dumbest and least skilled", not one made in the article. It is inaccurate and shows your bias, which influences (unfavorably) your entire argument.

    There is an inherent bias against the new by the old. To demonstrate: Samuel Nicholas was sitting in Tun Tavern, enlisting Marines. One man walked up and said he'd like to join. Capt Nicholas asked him if he owned a rifle and he declared that he did. Capt Nicholas took his name and told him to stand to the side. Another man walked up and said he'd like to join. Again, Capt Nicholas asked if the man owned a rifle. This one stated that he did not. Still, Capt Nicholas took his name and told him by the other man. Said the first to the second, "That sh!t wouldn't have flown in the old Corps".

    For you to aver something about the state of today's military when you are admittedly not a part of it is ludicrous. It is akin to me making claims about NASA. I suspect I know perhaps a bit more about today's military (at least the Marine Corps). Some of our leaders are spineless, some are immoral, but having recently come from a "B" billet in which I instructed 2ndLts, Captains, LtCols, WO/CWO's, and senior SNCO's, I can tell you that the service members you describe are few. Far more prevalent are the ones who are seriously concerned about the direction our government is taking. There are many things I could tell you, but the Internet is public. Suffice it to say, I used my bully pulpit to preach our responsibility to hold sacred our oath "to support and defend the Constitution against all enemies, foreign and domestic...". I had audiences which were overwhelmingly responsive to the message.

    Stupidity and "droneness" are not in demand, they are tolerated because we need personnel for the assigned mission to be accomplished. Those displaying these are also quickly weeded out when "the needs of the Marine Corps" allow. It just happens that those are two dominant traits in society today.

    Bottom line: Some will, prepare for those. Many will not, recognize them.
     
  16. Pyrrhus

    Pyrrhus Monkey+++

    Except he is wrong. However, if one is fond of being wrong, perhaps to him it would be well said.
     
  17. UGRev

    UGRev Get on with it!

    Therein lies the problem. Deception is the prevailing trait and not something that is usually easily discovered when coming from a body that one would, out of normalcy bias, conclude to be honorable.

    I suppose we'll find out who's who when the hisses turn to snaps.
     
  18. Minuteman

    Minuteman Chaplain Moderator Emeritus Founding Member

    Most of my friends are military, current and former, and we have had discussions on this very subject. It seems to be a worry among the newer members more so than those who have been out of service for some time. It may well be that those undesirable traits are more common among the general populace now than in the past. I certainly wouldn't argue the merits of that statement. Yet it does seem to be a trend in these last several years.

    I myself never served in the military, it was my goal and desire to do so but lasting physical impediments from childhood illness prevented it. However I have spent considerable time in and around law enforcement and the trend there is much more obvious and blatant. The militarization of civilian law enforcement and the fostering of the us vs them mentality has been going on for the last couple of decades. This is a worrisome situation that I feel is more threatening than the military, who have a much more deep seated, albeit watered down of late, sense of duty, honor, and patriotism than the run-of-the-mill LEO.
     
  19. Brokor

    Brokor Live Free or Cry Moderator Site Supporter+++ Founding Member

    I served 11 years and only recently got out of the military, so you are wrong.


    The rest of your post is either entirely irrelevant or borderline rude. Thanks for the response anyway.
     
  20. Pyrrhus

    Pyrrhus Monkey+++

    You thought the joke about the "old Corps" was rude? Strange.

    11 years means that you went over the hump and then got out. Which means you avoided the squeeze to the middle because you are either exceptional or sub par. I don't really care which it is, but either would be revelatory because it would explain why you think today's military is so stupid. Either you are a whiz who is derisive of all we who are not as sharp as you, or...well, you get the picture.

    Note that I speak primarily about the Marine Corps. That is because I am a Marine. I could speak with a bit of authority about the Army since I spent the last two and a half years with the big green monster, but I don't because there are a number of assumptions that I have made which are undoubtedly wrong. I don't even begin to understand the Air Force and Navy. If you spent 11 years in, you should definitely understand that not only are the branches radically different from each other, but different units within the branches are radically different from each other. Thus, to state, "The military..." is inaccurate at best.
     
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