Winter water help while fishing/hunting

Discussion in 'Turf and Surf Hunting and Fishing' started by Quigley_Sharps, Dec 25, 2007.

  1. Quigley_Sharps

    Quigley_Sharps The Badministrator Administrator Founding Member

    When I pursue Steelhead fishing all winter floating rivers and bank fishing and take someone new I tend to forget most likely they haven’t experienced extreme cold wet conditions and the preparation that goes along with it.
    So I have this list that gives them some things to think about.( see bottom)

    Also I was talking with a friend about this:
    I am going to do a real below freezing experiment soon this winter.
    I will pack my pack with 3 kinds of fire starter and space blankets.
    I am going to jump in the river with my pack on and submerge myself in below freezing weather, and then try and build a fire and get warm.
    I will have warm people and other fires and tent ready if I fail. Other wise they are to watch and take notes and help me to log the time line and events that goes along with it.
    Hopefully I can help save a life with the info reported.
    If I should look to be failing they are to get me warm.
    It isn’t quite cold enough here yet, only getting down to 20 degs at night, once it reaches 0 degs I will prepare the test, I will also have them take pictures.

    Now for the winter list:
    Layering Winter Clothing-Do not use wool or cotton underwear for cold weather. Both fabrics dry slowly, holding heat-draining moisture against your skin. Cotton socks or underwear may feel comfortable when you put them on, but they end up damp.

    Winter outside work (fishing) can be accomplished without freezing. You can keep dry and warm by dressing properly and adjusting to changing conditions. Comfort in the cold requires attention to details, and layering your clothing from the inside out. No cotton allowed!!
    Clothing Recommendations
    Inner Layer - Synthetic fibers - polyester, polypropylene. Light to heavy weight poly-type underwear
    Middle Layer - Synthetic fibers - polyester, polypropylene. Light to heavy weight poly-type micro fleece,
    Outer layer – Breathable Synthetic fibers - Nylon, polyester, polypropylene, and some cotton, Insulation – breathable – poly, etc.

    Cotton absorbs sweat, and then pulls heat from your body. Making you feel cold. Do not use it. I know they advertise it for thermal underwear, but it is not the best.
    Synthetic fibers such as polyester and polypropylene allow the moisture to travel or ”wick” out to the middle and outer layers of clothes so it can evaporate.
    The clothing does not have to be expensive. Military surplus is probably the cheapest. Outlet stores often have bargains. Thrift stores are an often-overlooked source, too. The important thing is that the material it is made from, polyester or polypropylene only, is on the label. It is the best clothing material for winter, not the brand name on it. Read the labels on the clothing to see what it is made of. No cotton on the inner/base layer or middle layer.

    What is the key to a proper layering system? The answer lies in the role of retaining heat and controlling moisture against your skin. The traditional clothing for combating cold was a bulky parka and many wool undergarments. While this combination might work for someone standing still, they are impractical for active outside work.
    Parkas are heavy, wool is itchy, and, most importantly, both garments trap moisture, which leads to damp discomfort when someone wearing them works up a sweat and then cools down.
    Layering allows for a variety of conditions using lightweight and comfortable fabrics. The key factor in layering is to combine the right clothing in the proper order, trapping the air warmed by your body heat while letting moisture vapor from your body's perspiration be conducted away from your skin.
    The choice of garments must be versatile enough to adapt to your activity level and variations in weather conditions—maintaining the balance of staying cool when active and warm when at rest.
    Synthetic Fibers
    Synthetic fibers, polyester, polypropylene, and the like, work much better. (Silk is nice too, but difficult to care for.) Not only do they feel comfortable against the skin, they dry quickly and actually pull (wick) perspiration vapor away from the skin towards the next layer of clothing, the insulation layer, where it can evaporate. Do not use cotton for the inner and middle layer.

    Inner Layer: The Basics
    The first layer for cold-weather exposure should keep you warm and dry on the inside. Since it is what touches your skin, it also makes sense to wear something soft, lightweight and pliable (wool underwear has been known to be uncomfortable).
    This layer, the underclothing, will work with your middle and outer layer to keep you dry. The best material for long underwear are those that

    Use polyester and polypropylene.
    Pick a weight of underwear that matches the conditions. They come in light, medium, and heavy weight.

    Middle Layer: Insulation
    The secret to staying warm and dry when temperatures are at or below freezing, is to make sure you are well insulated against the cold. The moisture that is moving away from your skin has to keep moving. The best insulators will trap warm air, but offer necessary ventilation when you start to overheat. Clothing that gives you the best insulation should be comfortable and lightweight. Various weights of micro fleece meet this need.
    Incorporate as many layers as necessary to stay ahead of the cold, and control your heat retention by adding or removing layers as needed. It therefore makes sense to buy garments that are easy to put on and take off, and of various weights.
    Flexibility in your layering system is the key. When working outdoors in winter, you can expect to be active for extended periods and standing still for periods. Start your day wearing wicking layers and an outer shell.
    Do not overdress. It is better to be slightly cool than over warm. The day should warm up gradually. It may be a little cool to begin with, but your body will warm rapidly and begin to perspire with too much insulation.

    Outer Layer: The Shell
    The third or outside layer is your last line of defense, so outerwear should be appropriate for your activity. Jackets and pants must allow perspiration vapor to vent while blocking wind and rain. The material must reduce heat loss and assist the rest of your layers in keeping you dry and comfortable.
    The invention of breathable materials revolutionized cold-weather outerwear. Breathable fabrics such as like Gore-Tex for Dri-Plus, and many others, can withstand severe rain and snow while allowing perspiration vapor to escape. It is durable and windproof for a wide range of physical activities.
    Many effective fabrics are available. Consider your activity and the level of protection you expect. Make sure the shell is large enough to fit easily over the other layers and that it is easy to care for so that you can maintain its performance over a long period. Use it in conjunction with the other elements of layering.

    Heat from Head to Foot
    Layering works, but you will only be comfortable and safe from the elements if you make sure your extremities are protected from the damp and cold as well.
    Use a Hat
    Twenty-five percent of you body heat escapes through your head. Your head has a large, exposed surface area and a rich, warm blood supply that is not diminished when exposed to cold. A hat can therefore be one of the most effective dampers for quick adjustments in temperature. Put it on when you feel a chill, and take it off when you are hot and sweaty. Neck covers and a face cover (balaclava) may be needed.
    Get Good Gloves
    Your body, when exposed to the cold, will limit the amount of blood pumped to extremities to preserve heat within the vital organs. That is why your hands and feet are the first things to get cold—they are being sacrificed, in a sense, for the more important body parts. Because body heat escapes easily through your hands, it is hard to keep them warm. If they get wet, you can more or less forget about it. Always wear a good pair of gloves that are breathable and waterproof.
    Protect Your Feet
    Like your hands, your feet can quickly get cold and allow heat to escape. In fact, your feet can pump a full cup of perspiration over the course of an active day. The best defense for the cold is to keep them dry and warm. Durably waterproof, breathable footwear will provide you with the insurance you need to enjoy your outdoor activity. Add to that a heavy pair of synthetic-fiber (such as polypropylene or polyester) socks and a thin pair of wicking socks, and your days of cold feet should well be over.
    *Material from US Army Field Manuals and breathable fabric manufacturers

    Example of Issue Clothing for Antarctic Field Personnel
    2 Bag, Clothing

    1 ffice:smarttags" />1 Bearpaws

    1 Boot, Bunny

    1 Bottle, Water, 32 oz. Nalgene®

    1 Glove, Leather Thinsulate®

    2 Glove, Polypropylene

    1 Glove, Ski

    1 Goggles, Smith Caribou

    1 Hat, Pile/Knit

    1 Jacket, Pile Polar-Tec 30

    1 Jacket, Wind

    1 Mitten, Kodalite

    1 Mitten, Leather

    1 Mitten, Wool

    1 Neck Gaiter

    1 Pants, Pile Bib

    1 Pants, Wind Bib

    1 Parka, Red

    6 Sock, Wool

    1 Thermal Bottom, Expedition-Weight

    1 Thermal Bottom, Thermax®

    1 Thermal Top, Expedition-Weight

    1 Thermal Top, Thermax®

    1 Coverall, Bunny Suit--on request

  2. Blackjack

    Blackjack Monkey+++

    Good stuff but man, I don't know about that submerged/freezing experiment. I love to duck hunt in really cold conditions, but I never jump in! Too radical for me.

    Couple of notes on safety for this thing....

    People have stopped breathing immediately when submerged in uber-cold water. That's the part that would concern me (well, besides literally freezing my balls off).

    And there's no going back once frostbite gets the fingers and toes. I'm sure you know all this stuff already, but make sure your "safety" friends know what to look for.
  3. monkeyman

    monkeyman Monkey+++ Moderator Emeritus Founding Member

    Also be SURE you have a saftey line when you jump in incase you do go into hypothermal shock so the assistants can pull you out without the risk of becomeing additional persons needing help...especialy unless they happen to have Gumby (submersion) suits.
  4. Quigley_Sharps

    Quigley_Sharps The Badministrator Administrator Founding Member

    Well good news, someone has beat me to it:

    A few reasons - the cold water has a strong effect on peripheral blood vessels. on a very cold day walking outside it is remarked that some ppl have very rosy cheeks, this is because the blood vessels close to the surface of a persons face divert blood flow. this diversion is so quick that some blood is trapped - hence rosy cheeks.

    when this happens over all of the skin, the body diverts blood flow away from these areas to maintain core temperature. basically your skin is a radiator with very accurate and precise controls.

    this diversion causes ALL the blood to circulate in the core of the body, there is a huge increase in blood pressure as the body attempts to maintain body temp. a combination of extreme cold causing organ dysfunction due to impaired cellular processes. the the body goes into shock from the huge pressure on the body's organs - the brain, heart, lungs and kidneys are all subjected too much higher pressures then normal.

    eventually the body succumbs to the cold and its attempts to survive cannot continue. shock happens before this time.

    also because of this blood diversion that ppl in hypothermic shock shouldn't be warmed too quickly. receptors detect heat and blood rushes back to the outer areas of the body - while this is warmer then before and the outer areas do need the blood the average temperature drops too far. (if done incorrectly) below a certain temperature (not sure exactly) the heart is unable to conduct electrical signals and thus stops.

    Because your body works at a temperature of 98 degrees. If you jump into freezing water, your body will start to shut down because it makes the blood flow more slowly. (I.E. Hypothermia) The colder you get the more lethargic you get and you get that feeling like you want to go to sleep but essentially your body will freeze and stop working.

    A lot of the enzymes in the body (and consequently a lot of the body functions) function at 98F, so dropping into freezing water causes most of them to slow down since they're not working at optimum temp. In order to maintain the function of the important parts of the body (the brain, heart and lungs), your body starts shunting blood away from the extremities, and eventually the abdominal organs, towards the core (the chest and the head) in order to maintain optimum temperature there. Prolonged stay in cold water means that the external temp is still colder than internal, the body can't keep producing heat to compenstate for the cold due to decreased function and overwhelming difference in temperature. Eventually, following the laws of physics (heat transfer, from a hotter to a colder region, or more energy to less energy) even the core of the body cools down, leading to shutdown of the body.
  5. monkeyman

    monkeyman Monkey+++ Moderator Emeritus Founding Member

    Yup, I remember in my teens going swimming with a couple friends on spring break...the water temp was about 38 degrees. Me and the other guy jumped in and while it had expected results of some shortness of breath (like when a glass of cool water is thrown on you in the summer and takes your breath away for a moment) the girl that was with us jumped in and her lungs locked up to a point she couldnt speak or breath and was also barely able to move (all instantly on jumping in, fortunatly had lungs full and body fat to be boyant along with shallow enouph water to 'bounce' up)untill we got her out of the water and then it released gradualy. Not that it WILL happen to any given person in a particular situation but that it CAN.
  6. Quigley_Sharps

    Quigley_Sharps The Badministrator Administrator Founding Member

  7. sheen_estevez

    sheen_estevez Monkey+++

    My only disagreement is with the statement about wool, wool holds most of it insulating value so even wet you will still stay warm. The only problem is it gets real heavy when wet. The other thing you don't have to worry about with wool is getting too close to the fire, it won't melt or burst into flames.
    Again very heavy. We wear wool all winter, even when it hits -40 were good to go with any outdoor activity we need to do.

    Jumping in a river, I think you may find that you are still warm in wool but very heavy to move around in. but I would still give it a try.
  8. ghrit

    ghrit Bad company Administrator Founding Member

    Hey Quigs -- Have you done the experiment yet?
  9. Quigley_Sharps

    Quigley_Sharps The Badministrator Administrator Founding Member

    No, not lately, I found the video above and it pretty much shows what i was going to do.
    Last winter I did, and it wasn't planned :shock:
  10. ColtCarbine

    ColtCarbine Monkey+++ Founding Member

    The one thing that sucks when accidentally falling in cold water is how long it takes to get the lumps out of your throat [booze]
  11. monkeyman

    monkeyman Monkey+++ Moderator Emeritus Founding Member

    and back where they are supposed to be hanging out at. lol
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