Women in the infantry? Apparently so in Australia

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by chelloveck, Sep 27, 2011.

  1. chelloveck

    chelloveck Diabolus Causidicus

    Females on the frontline - YouTube

    The Australian government has approved the lifting of restrictions on employment of women in front line combat positions, and that a maximum 5 year timeframe for implementation has been set. If a woman meets the educational, physical, psychological, and job skills requirements for employment, then they may be able to be employed even in SAS and commando special forces capacities as well as front line employment in Infantry, Armour, Artillery, Engineer and associated combat arms.

    I can foresee that some women would have the psychological and athletic capabilties necessary to gain entry to the SAS and would undoubtedly augment the SAS's counter terrorism capabilities.

    Substantial cultural changes will be required to accomodate changes in military employment policies, and undoubtedly there will be some friction and resistance, but that's the nature of most organisations with traditions that tend to be tribal.

    Having trained both male and female reservist soldiers to become officers, not all female soldiers are cut out for front line combat duty, however, of those that are, many will generally perform their duties at least as competently as the men are likely to.

    Frontline Women - ABC Western Queensland - Australian Broadcasting Corporation

    Women on the front line - YouTube

    Department of Defence Video Gallery

    ABC Radio Australia News:Stories:Australian women cleared to serve in combat

    Right to fight: Women on the frontline in five years | News.com.au

    Women in the military - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    mysterymet likes this.
  2. RightHand

    RightHand Been There, Done That RIP 4/15/21 Moderator Moderator Emeritus Founding Member

    You've hit the nail on the head. Thanks for the info Chello.

    Lots of years ago, I was backing a trailer a long distance into a particularly tricky tight space and my dad, who was watching from the sidelines, said that the next time he went to war, I could be his driver to which I promptly responded, laughing lwith great amusement, that the next time we went to war, he might be my driver!
    chelloveck likes this.
  3. chelloveck

    chelloveck Diabolus Causidicus

    I like your thinking

    Never argue with a competent well armed woman who wants to ride shotgun!

    BTPost and RightHand like this.
  4. tulianr

    tulianr Don Quixote de la Monkey

    I've known a lot of female Marines I wouldn't mind being in a combat zone with; and I've known a lot of male Marines who shouldn't have been in a combat zone. It's all about what they have inside, not the packaging on the outside.
  5. Tikka

    Tikka Monkey+++

    Because it is life or death Grunts don't cut any slack; so gender doesn't matter.

    No offense to anyone. Once, I was a 11B NCO and if you could not cut it, keep up, get it done etc both physically and mentally, you were gone. There isn't any slack, a soldier earns the Crossed Rifles.
    BTPost likes this.
  6. Capt. Tyree

    Capt. Tyree Hawkeye

    Social Engineering

    In today's military, which is more and more a microcosm of our culture, the system has mechanisms designed to remove or re-assign the males from combat units, or any other unit, up to and including removal from active duty, in which their performance is documented as subpar.

    The system, in my opinion, is still skewed toward political correctness when it comes to reassigning, or removing, females of documented subpar performance. Lowered physical requirements and do-overs for the female soldier seem to be the expectation by both the high command as well as the new recruit, with the junior officer command and NCOs being caught in the middle.

    All this because the goal seems to be a socially-engineered military experience designed to agree with the liberalized permissiveness in our society. Winning traditions are downplayed in the pursuit of "progressive change".

    Yeah, there will always be the tough gal who can "hump a ruck" with most guys, but that is the extreme exception, and discerning the difference and doing the correct thing with those that don't hack the program will continue to destroy unit morale, team cohesion and ultimately, combat effectiveness.
    Opinionated and Sapper John like this.
  7. Tikka

    Tikka Monkey+++

    Even worse it gets others killed.
  8. Seawolf1090

    Seawolf1090 Retired Curmudgeonly IT Monkey Founding Member

    Having seen the females in 'action' in both the USAF and the USN, I am NOT impressed. They DO get the easy jobs, the special treatment, the overlooking of weaknesses. Not so dangerous in a non-combat mechanic or electronic billet.......
    Still, a lot of guys got screwed when the'ladies' got preferential treatment.
    WIth today's insistance on 'PC' and 'equality', I can only guess it has gotten worse, not better.

    My personal opinion only, tempered with direct personal experience......
    Capt. Tyree likes this.
  9. wideym

    wideym Monkey+++

    As a former Infantryman, I would be more inclinded to accept women in Combat Arms if they could pass the male PT test.

    One thing I will not stand for is the lowering of standards to allow women in Combat Arms. That does no one any service, the woman who could not have made on her own will have it held against her and her fellow soldiers won't trust her keep up or cover their backs.

    I have served with women while in the military, and generally I found it underwhelming.
    RightHand likes this.
  10. mysterymet

    mysterymet Monkey+++

    I agree that if a woman wants to be combat arms they should be able to pass the male pt test. I score high enough on my pt test to pass by male standards but there are plenty of women who don't. There are plenty of women and men who can't pass minimum standards. Even though I am in good physical shape I would not want to retrain into combat arms. My guard job is something I enjoy. Not all military females would want to switch to infantry if given a chance. I think if they opened it up to women and let it be known that pt standards would be the men's the women who went for it would be in shape.
    chelloveck, tulianr and RightHand like this.
  11. wideym

    wideym Monkey+++

    The AFPT is not a great example of phycial fittness for the Infantry. It is a good baseline, but Infantry also need to be able to carry all their combat equipment (helmet, bodyarmor, ammo, weapon and the like) in addition to a 40-60lb ruck, crew served equipment (machineguns, tripods, T&Es, radios, CLS bags, mortar rounds, ect.) up mountains, down valleys, though forests, and anywhere else for up to 10 miles and be prepared to fight.

    One complaint I've heard from REMFs was that the Infantry's Promotion Points were lower than just about all other MOSs. What they don't realise is that the Infantry probably has the highest turnover rate of jobs in the Army. Not only is it tough, it's a less forgiving job than say Finance or Dentac. If you can't keep up physically, whether due to injury, age, or just your body being worn out (jumping out of airplanes is very bad on the joints after a while), you can't call a time out or move to a less physically demanding job in the Infanty, you have to find another MOS and hope you aren't locked in to Infantry permantly.
    chelloveck, Sapper John and tulianr like this.
  12. Tikka

    Tikka Monkey+++

    Some times getting what one asks for can be an educational experience.
    Sapper John and tulianr like this.
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