WORLD WAR III??? Looks like it!

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Quigley_Sharps, Jul 24, 2006.


  1. Quigley_Sharps

    Quigley_Sharps The Badministrator Administrator Founding Member

    Please take the time to read the attached essay by Dr.
    Chong.
    It is without a doubt the most articulate and
    convincing writing I have read regarding the War in
    Iraq.
    If you have any doubts please open your mind to
    his essay and give a fair evaluation.

    I had no idea who Dr. Chong is or the source of these
    thoughts... so when I received them, I almost deleted
    them - as well-written as they are. But then I did a
    "Google search" on the Doctor and found him to be a
    retired Air Force Surgeon of all things and past
    Commander of Wilford Hall Medical Center in San
    Antonio. So he is real, is connected to Veterans
    affairs in California, and these are his thoughts.
    They are worth reading and thinking about! (the same
    Google search will direct you to some of his other
    thought-provoking writings.)

    Subject: Muslims, terrorist and the USA. A different
    spin on Iraq war.

    This WAR is for REAL! Dr. Vernon Chong, Major General,
    USAF, Retired

    Tuesday, July 12, 2005
    To get out of a difficulty, one usually must go
    through it. Our country is now facing the most serious
    threat to its existence, as we know it, that we have
    faced in your lifetime and mine (which includes WWII).

    The deadly seriousness is greatly compounded by the
    fact that there are very few of us who think we can
    possibly lose this war and even fewer who realize what
    losing really means.

    First, let's examine a few basics:

    1. When did the threat to us start? Many will say
    September 11, 2001. The answer as far as the United
    State
    is concerned is 1979, 22 years prior to September
    2001, with the following attacks on us:

    * Iran Embassy Hostages, 1979;
    * Beirut, Lebanon Embassy 1983;
    * Beirut, Lebanon Marine Barracks 1983;
    * Lockerbie, Scotland Pan-Am flight to New York 1988;
    * First New York World Trade Center attack 1993;
    * Dhahran, Saudi Arabia Khobar Towers Military complex
    1996;
    * Nairobi, Kenya US Embassy 1998;
    * Dares Salaam, Tanzania US Embassy 1998;
    * Aden, Yemen USS Cole 2000;
    * New York World Trade Center 2001;
    * Pentagon 2001.

    (Note that during the period from 1981 to 2001 there
    were 7,581 terrorist attacks worldwide).

    2. Why were we attacked?

    Envy of our position, our success, and our freedoms.
    The attacks happened During the administrations of
    Presidents Carter, Reagan, Bush 1, Clinton and Bush 2.
    We cannot fault either the Republicans or Democrats as
    there were no provocations by any of the presidents or
    their Immediate predecessors, Presidents Ford or
    Carter.

    3. Who were the attackers?
    In each case, the attacks on the US were carried out
    by Muslims.

    4. What is the Muslim population of the World? 25%.

    5. Isn't the Muslim Religion peaceful? Hopefully, but
    that is really not material. There is no doubt that
    the
    Predominately Christian population of Germany was
    peaceful, but under the dictatorial leadership of
    Hitler (who was also Christian), that made no
    difference. You either went along with the
    administration or you were
    eliminated. There were 5 to 6 million Christians
    killed by the Nazis for political reasons (including
    7,000 Polish priests). (see
    http://www.nazis.testimony.co.uk/7-a.htm )

    Thus, almost the same number of Christians were killed
    by the Nazis, as the six million holocaust Jews who
    were killed by them, and we seldom heard of anything
    other than the Jewish atrocities. Although Hitler kept
    the world focused on the Jews, he had no hesitancy
    about killing anyone who got in his way of
    exterminating the Jews or of taking over the world -
    German, Christian or any others.

    Same with the Muslim terrorists. They focus the world
    on the US, but kill all in the way -- their own people
    or the Spanish, French or anyone else. The point here
    is that just like the peaceful Germans were of no
    protection to anyone from the Nazis, no matter how
    many peaceful Muslims there may be, they are no
    protection for us from the terrorist Muslim leaders
    and what they are fanatically bent on doing -- by
    their own
    pronouncements -- killing all of us "infidels." I
    don't blame the peaceful Muslims. What would you do if
    the choice was shut up or die?

    6. So who are we at war with?

    There is no way we can honestly respond that it is
    anyone other than the Muslim terrorists. Trying to be
    politically correct and avoid verbalizing this
    conclusion can well be fatal. There is no way to win
    if you don't
    clearly recognize and articulate who you are fighting.

    So with that background, now to the two major
    questions:

    1. Can we lose this war?

    2. What does losing really mean?

    If we are to win, we must clearly answer these two
    pivotal questions

    We can definitely lose this war, and as anomalous as
    it may sound, the major reason we can lose is that so
    many of us simply do not fathom the answer to the
    second question - What does losing mean?

    It would appear that a great many of us think that
    losing the war means hanging our heads, bringing the
    troops home and going on about our business, like post
    Vietnam. This is as far from the truth as one can get.

    What losing really means is:

    We would no longer be the premier country in the
    world. The attacks will not subside, but rather will
    steadily increase. Remember, they want us dead, not
    just quiet. If they had just wanted us quiet, they
    would not have produced an increasing series of
    attacks against us, over the past 18 years. The plan
    was clearly, for terrorist to attack us, until we were
    neutered and submissive to them.

    We would of course have no future support from other
    nations, for fear of reprisals and for the reason that
    they would see, we are impotent and cannot help them.

    They will pick off the other non-Muslim nations, one
    at a time. It will be increasingly easier for them.
    They already hold Spain hostage. It doesn't matter
    whether it was right or wrong for Spain to withdraw
    its troops from Iraq. Spain did it because the Muslim
    terrorists bombed their train and told them to
    withdraw the troops. Anything else they want Spain to
    do will be done. Spain is finished.

    The next will probably be France. Our one hope on
    France is that they might see the light and realize
    that if we don't win, they are finished too, in that
    they can't resist the Muslim terrorists without us.
    However, it may already be too late for France. France
    is already 20% Muslim and fading fast!

    If we lose the war, our production, income, exports
    and way of life will all vanish as we know it. After
    losing, who would trade or deal with us, if they were
    threatened by the Muslims. If we can't stop the
    Muslims, how
    could anyone else?

    The Muslims fully know what is riding on this war, and
    therefore are completely committed to winning, at any
    cost. We better know it too and be likewise committed
    to winning at any cost.

    Why do I go on at such lengths about the results of
    losing? Simple. Until we recognize the costs of
    losing, we cannot unite and really put 100% of our
    thoughts and efforts into winning. And it is going to
    take that 100% effort to win.

    So, how can we lose the war?

    Again, the answer is simple. We can lose the war by
    "imploding." That is, defeating ourselves by refusing
    to recognize the enemy and their purpose, and really
    digging in and lending full support to the war effort
    If we
    are united, there is no way that we can lose. If we
    continue to be divided, there is no way that we can
    win!

    Let me give you a few examples of how we simply don't
    comprehend the life and death seriousness of this
    situation.

    President Bush selects Norman Mineta as Secretary of
    Transportation. Although all of the terrorist attacks
    were committed by Muslim men between 17 and 40 years
    of age, Secretary Mineta refuses to allow profiling.
    Does that sound like we are taking this thing
    seriously? This is war! For the duration, we are going
    to have to give up some of the civil rights we have
    become accustomed to. We had better be prepared to
    lose some of our civil rights temporarily or we will
    most certainly lose all of them permanently.

    And don't worry that it is a slippery slope. We gave
    up plenty of civil rights during WWII, and immediately
    restored them after the victory and in fact added many
    more since then.

    Do I blame President Bush or President Clinton before
    him?

    No, I blame us for blithely assuming we can maintain
    all of our Political Correctness, and all of our civil
    rights during this conflict and have a clean, lawful,
    honorable war. None of those words apply to war. Get
    them out of your head.

    Some have gone so far in their criticism of the war
    and/or the Administration that it almost seems they
    would literally like to see us Lose. I hasten to add
    that this isn't because they are disloyal. It is
    because they just don't recognize what losing means.
    Nevertheless, that conduct gives the impression to the
    enemy that we are divided and weakening. It concerns
    our friends, and it does great damage to our cause.

    Of more recent vintage, the uproar fueled by the
    politicians and media regarding the treatment of some
    prisoners of war, perhaps exemplifies best what I am
    saying. We have recently had an issue, involving the
    treatment of a few Muslim prisoners of war, by a small
    group of our military police. These are the type
    prisoners who just a few months ago were throwing
    their own people off buildings, cutting off their
    hands,
    cutting out their tongues and otherwise murdering
    their own people just for disagreeing with Saddam
    Hussein.

    And just a few years ago these same type prisoners
    chemically killed 400,000 of their own people for the
    same reason. They are also the same type of enemy
    fighters, who recently were burning Americans, and
    dragging
    their charred corpses through the streets of Iraq.

    And still more recently, the same type of enemy that
    was and is providing videos to all news sources
    internationally, of the beheading of American
    prisoners they held.

    Compare this with some of our press and politicians,
    who for several days have thought and talked about
    nothing else but the "humiliating" of some Muslim
    prisoners -- not burning them, not dragging their
    charred corpses through the streets, not beheading
    them, but "humiliating" them.

    Can this be for real?

    The politicians and pundits have even talked of
    impeachment of the Secretary of Defense. If this
    doesn't show the complete lack of comprehension and
    understanding of the seriousness of the enemy we are
    fighting, the life and death struggle we are in and
    the disastrous results of losing this war, nothing
    can.

    To bring our country to a virtual political standstill
    over this prisoner issue makes us look like Nero
    playing his fiddle as Rome burned -- totally oblivious
    to what is going on in the real world. Neither we, nor
    any other country, can survive this internal strife.
    Again I say, this does not mean that some of our
    politicians or media people are disloyal. It simply
    means that they are absolutely oblivious to the
    magnitude, of the situation we are in and into which
    the Muslim terrorists have been pushing us, for many
    years.

    Remember, the Muslim terrorists stated goal is to kill
    all infidels! That translates into ALL non-Muslims --
    not just in the United State, but throughout the
    world.

    We are the last bastion of defense.

    We have been criticized for many years as being
    'arrogant.' That charge
    Is valid in at least one respect. We are arrogant in
    that we believe that
    we are so good, powerful and smart, that we can win
    the hearts and minds
    of all those who attack us, and that with both hands
    tied behind our
    back, we can defeat anything bad in the world!

    We can't!

    If we don't recognize this, our nation as we know it
    will not survive,
    and no other free country in the world will survive if
    we are defeated.

    And finally, name any Muslim countries throughout the
    world that allow
    freedom of speech, freedom of thought, freedom of
    religion, freedom of
    the press, equal rights for anyone -- let alone
    everyone, equal status or
    any status for women, or that have been productive in
    one single way that
    contributes to the good of the world.

    This has been a long way of saying that we must be
    united on this war or
    we will be equated in the history books to the
    self-inflicted fall of the
    Roman Empire . If, that is, the Muslim leaders will
    allow history books
    to be written or read.

    If we don't win this war right now, keep a close eye
    on how the Muslims
    take over France in the next 5 years or less. They
    will continue to
    Increase the Muslim population of France and continue
    to encroach little
    by little, on the established French traditions. The
    French will be
    fighting among themselves, over what should or should
    not be done, which
    will continue to weaken them and keep them from any
    united resolve.
    Doesn't that sound eerily familiar?

    Democracies don't have their freedoms taken away from
    them by some
    external military force. Instead, they give their
    freedoms away,
    politically correct piece by politically correct
    piece.

    And they are giving those freedoms away to those who
    have shown,
    worldwide that they abhor freedom and will not apply
    it to you or even to
    themselves, once they are in power.

    They have universally shown that when they have taken
    over, they then start brutally killing each other over
    who will be the few who control the masses. Will we
    ever stop hearing from the politically correct, about
    the "peaceful Muslims"?

    I close on a hopeful note, by repeating what I said
    above. If we are united, there is no way that we can
    lose. I hope now after the election, the factions in
    our country will begin to focus on the critical
    situation we are in, and will unite to save our
    country. It is your future we are talking about! Do
    whatever you can to preserve it.

    After reading the above, we all must do this not only
    for ourselves, but Our children, our grandchildren,
    our country and the world

    Whether Democrat or Republican, conservative or
    liberal and that include the Politicians and media of
    our country and the free world!

    Please forward this to any you feel may want, or NEED
    to read it. Our "leaders" in Congress ought to read
    it, too. There are those that find fault with our
    country, but it is obvious to anyone who truly thinks
    through this, that we must UNITE!


    Got this in the mail today interesting to say the least.
     
  2. melbo

    melbo Hunter Gatherer Administrator Founding Member

    In my previous newsletter
    I examined the strategic reasons
    that caused Israel
    to initially retreat from
    Lebanon,
    Gaza,
    and Settlements in the West Bank.

    In summary -
    they simply do not have the resources
    to defend settlers in those areas -
    simultaneously with becoming involved
    in a larger conflict.

    The problem with retreat
    was that it then put major cities of Israel
    within the line of fire
    of rockets launched from those abandoned locations.

    I provided quotes -
    in the previous newsletter -
    showing that this was the anticipated result
    by those very individuals
    who engineered the retreat.

    Seeing that the present situation was anticipated -
    in the overall strategy
    we therefore need to comprehend
    what is called for by the next steps
    of the strategy.

    As Israel retreated -
    the Islamists of course thought that this indicated
    that they were becoming victorious.
    My conclusion in the previous newsletter -
    was that they were simply being invited
    into the killing ground.

    We now have Hezbullah and Hamas
    (as anticipated in the Israeli strategy)
    raining their weapons
    upon the Israeli cities.

    The specific act
    that precipitated the current situation
    (the kidnapping of an Israeli soldier)
    was coincidental.
    Given the nature of the Islamists
    it was inevitable
    that they would present some opportunity for response.
    The bombing act of a terrorist.
    The downing of an Israeli airliner.
    Some act - somewhere.
    This was assured.

    The variable was -
    when would Israel respond -
    and that with Sharon's stroke -
    was a variable determined in the end -
    by internal affairs -
    surrounding Israeli elections
    and the consolidation of political will
    within Israel.

    Externalities also played their role -
    such as readiness upon the part of the US -
    for Israel to act -
    the temper of world opinion -
    the popularity or unpopularity
    of the activities of others -
    such as Iran, Syria, Pakistan, North Korea, etc. -
    that would impact the global geopolitical equation.

    BUT -
    the overall driving factor -
    to press forward -
    remained the developing situation with Iran.
    The Israeli strategy had to provide
    the tactical opportunities to
    strengthen the castle wall -
    bring the Jewish citizens within -
    and establish the killing grounds without -
    and to create a moat of distance -
    from the distracting nuisance of the rockets,
    before it would be able to undertake
    the primary piece of business.

    Israel's strategy is not
    to occupy and hold.
    Been there.
    Done that.
    Too resource consuming.

    Israel's strategy is not
    to inflict random tormenting
    damage to the Lebanonese, Syrians,
    or any other group.
    Doing so serves no purpose -
    and creates adverse world opinion.

    Israel's strategy is
    to position itself
    to succeed in the Primary Conflict -
    that with Iran.
    There -
    it feels it must either succeed or die.
    Iran states that is its view for Israel -
    also.

    So now -
    Israel must create the moat -
    push back the rockets
    out of the range of the castle.
    Hold down the marauders -
    and prepare to attack
    when the PTB (Powers That Be)
    will permit it or assist it to proceed,
    or as a minimum -
    when it feels that it must proceed -
    even in the face of their opposition.

    Unfortunately for Israel -
    the PTB are divided.
    The US and Britain would be supportive -
    but the countervailing powers of
    Russia and China are not.

    Just as Israel could be certain -
    that whenever it was ready -
    some event such as the kidnapping of the soldier -
    would occur -
    it can also rest assured
    that a triggering event will occur
    or can be manufactured
    for it to proceed against Iran.

    Perhaps more important -
    is the wish for there to be circumstances
    that will permit the US to be directly supportive.
    The present interplay of events
    can well create those circumstances.
    World leaders universally recognize
    that to be the situation -
    and therefore continuously express their concern.

    But events have a life of their own -
    and conflicts arise out of the attitudes
    and philosophies of the combatants.
    In this case
    the match for lighting the conflagration
    has been given to the Islamists.

    China, Russia, and the US
    have other strategies
    for achieving
    what they consider their
    Manifest Destinies -
    and would just as soon
    that Iran and the Islamists
    would play by their rules instead.

    But -
    that is not to be -
    and so we need to examine a bit -
    just who these Islamists are -
    and what their goals are.

    There is a saying that
    one should know their enemy.
    I do not wish to consider
    the Islamists my enemy -
    but I do recognize them to be -
    in this case -
    one of the two primary combatants -
    in the present Israeli conflict -
    and therefore I think it is well
    to understand them.

    Many Americans,
    while they have Muslims in their communities -
    really do not understand the Islamists -
    and who or what they are.
    >From the more close minded Americans
    I often hear statements that
    discount the Muslims as 'ragheads' -
    'worshippers of a Moon God' -
    camel jockeys -
    along with other such derogatory statements.

    This is totally unfair -
    and inaccurate -
    and I am going to try to explain -
    in terms meaningful to North Americans -
    exactly who the various factions are.

    Because most American Christians
    would never consider reading the Qur'án
    it comes as a surprise to many of them
    to learn that the Qur'án teaches -
    and that Muslims believe -
    in Jesus,
    that He was born of the Virgin Mary,
    and that He will return in the 'last days'.

    Such Christians are astounded to hear
    that much of the Qur'án is filled with stories
    about the very same people
    (Abraham, Moses, Noah, Jonah, and such)
    that fill the Bible.

    The Qur'án was revealed by God to Muhammad.
    (Follow the story -
    whether you believe it or not.)
    This occurred less than 600 years
    after the time of Jesus.
    They consider Muhammad to be the Paraclete
    promised by Jesus.

    Qur'án 61:6 says:
    "And remember when Jesus
    the son of Mary said,
    'O children of Israel!
    of a truth I am God's apostle to you
    to confirm the law which was given before me, and to announce an apostle
    that shall come after me
    whose name shall be Ahmad!'"
    The Muslims read the Paraclete,
    John 16:7, 14:16, 14:26, and 15:26
    (also I John 2:1)
    as the Periclyte, or Illustrious,
    which is the meaning of Ahmad.
    (Gail - Six Lessons on Islam, p. 23)

    Many / most Muslims consider Jesus and Muhammad
    to be Prophets of equal rank.

    After the time of Muhammad
    the Islamic Faith split into two branches
    in a manner similar to the split of
    Christianity in Catholicism and Protestantism.
    If you understand the parallels
    and follow them in principle
    you will have a substantial understanding
    of the hierarchical organization of Islam.

    Think of the Sunnis
    based in Mecca -
    with the Black Stone -
    towards which all Muslims pray
    five times a day -
    as being similar to the Catholics
    and Rome.

    The Sunnis are the major sect of Islam -
    just as the Catholics
    are the major sect of Christianity.
    There are some sub-divisions among them -
    just as there are also among the Christians
    with Russian and Greek Orthodox Churches
    which were in a sense
    a part of the Catholic Church.

    The major split with the Muslims
    was with Shiites -
    just as for the Christians -
    it was with the Protestants.
    The split in this case came
    immediately after the passing of Muhammad -
    just as in Christianity a similar split
    occurred in the LDS church
    with the passing of Joseph Smith.

    Some agreed to follow the son of the Prophet -
    but others did not.
    Those who followed Ali -
    Muhammad's son -
    are the Shiites.

    With the passing of Ali -
    some then followed appointed Imams.
    This did not set well with Sunnis -
    and Imams often had a very short life expectancy.
    Those who followed only the first five Imams
    are called
    Fivers -
    and those who followed the first seven -
    and called
    Seveners.
    All together there were in succession
    one after the other -
    twelve Imams -
    and those who accept them all are called
    Twelvers.
    The last Imam sort of just disappeared -
    similar to it being said
    that Jesus ascended into Heaven.
    Anyway -
    both the Imam and Jesus are expected to return.
    Some call the return of the twelfth Imam
    the coming of the Mahdi.

    The one thing that all Shiites have in common
    is that they all believe in Ali.
    You may be better able to understand
    how there can be hundreds of different Shiite
    and Sunni
    groups -
    when you think of how many, many different
    Christian Protestant groups there are.

    There are few people today
    in Protestant Christianity
    that could tell you the difference between
    say Presbyterians and Methodists
    or Lutherans and Anglicans,
    but at one time they were intense rivals.

    Today in Christianity
    there is a great smorgasbord
    of religious belief -
    between Seventh Day Adventists,
    Christian Scientists,
    and hundreds of other sects -
    and there are likewise such distinctions
    between the hundreds of Muslim sects.

    What the distinctions are -
    is not as important to understand -
    as is the principle
    that there is often intense rivalry
    and conflict between them.

    This is not a peculiarity of Islam -
    because many times in history -
    and still today in some locales -
    there have broken out intense battles
    between Christian Sects.
    The Mormons to this day remember
    the activities that occurred in Missouri -
    and the Jehovah's Witnesses
    of how they were persecuted in Quebec
    and elsewhere.

    While I am not suggesting
    that is important to understand
    the theological differences of Muslim sects
    I am suggesting that in order to understand
    what is happening today in the Middle East -
    it is important to understand
    that those rivalries exist
    and that it impacts the strategy of Israel.

    In the next and concluding newsletter
    on this series of what is happening -
    I shall try to draw these threads altogether.

    Peace and love,
    Bruce
    DawnSayer@webpal.org</pre>
     
  3. melbo

    melbo Hunter Gatherer Administrator Founding Member

    This is Part Three
    and the conclusion
    of a series on what is happening
    in the Middle East.

    In part one I pointed out
    that the Strategy of Israel
    (as it is being guided
    by those in control) -
    understood that the withdrawal
    from Lebanon, Gaza and the Territories
    would result
    in rockets falling upon the major cities
    of Israel.

    In part two I pointed out
    how Israel is not facing
    a single unified Enemy -
    called 'Islam' -
    and in this concluding presentation
    on this subject -
    it becomes apparent how that effects
    Israel's strategy -
    since it usually leaves no entity
    with which to negotiate.

    While there are numerous Islamic sects
    that are attacking Israel -
    and hardly a day goes by
    that we do not hear the name
    of some new one taking credit
    for some atrocity -
    they all actually fall into
    one of three spheres.

    Sunni Muslims, Shiite Muslims,
    or Muslims who are in some sense
    'secular' Muslims -
    that is those who
    while giving honor to Muslim customs,
    and respect for Muhammad and the Qur'án -
    in actuality are more concerned
    with stabilizing their governments
    and the social milieu of day to day life.

    That third group actually make up
    the bulk of Muslims
    and certainly the governments of Muslim countries.
    The exception to that rule is Iran.

    Iraq had a very secular government -
    and today most of the Muslim deaths
    in Iraq and elsewhere -
    are at the hands of other Muslims
    arising from the old Sunni / Shiite rivalries
    in the face of the collapse of
    Saddam's secular system.

    All the Muslim governments
    (with the exception of Iran)
    face their greatest challenge
    from within -
    from extremist Islamist groups -
    who wish to overthrow
    any semblance of secular rule -
    and replace it with Shariah Law.

    This is true of
    Pakistan
    Iraq
    Saudi Arabia
    Egypt
    and even Syria.
    It is also emphatically true for
    Lebanon and the Palestinian Authority.

    Fundamentalism is on the rise -
    throughout much of the world and
    not just in Islamic countries.
    It is a force to be reckoned with
    among Hindus in India,
    Christians in the US,
    and others elsewhere.

    Nor is it always religious fundamentalism.
    Sometimes it is political fundamentalism -
    through the established PTB
    (Powers That Be)
    such as in Russia and China.
    Sometimes taking the guise of Communism
    and other times under the guise of Fascism
    as in the US.

    What this means -
    for existing governments -
    if they have not already given over
    to some extreme of
    religious or political fundamentalist belief -
    as have Iran and North Korea -
    is that their first concern must be in controlling
    those dedicated forces from within -
    dedicated forces whose goal is
    to take over control of their country.
    (I will not belabour the opinion of some -
    about the status in the US.)

    In many ways -
    these forces do not seem to be such
    that they can in any way be appeased,
    and they are too strong to be controlled.

    The countries immediately surrounding
    and confronting Israel -
    all face religious fundamentalist types of crises.
    Egypt, and to some degree Libya,
    appears to have the situation under control -
    although substantial internal threats
    face them also.

    Pakistan and Afghanistan are barely holding on
    in facing the Taliban
    and the same is true of Saudi Arabia.
    The extreme fundamentalist groups that they face
    are Sunni based -
    and one can say somewhat the same for
    the Palestine Authority in its battles with Hamas.

    Lebanon on the other hand
    faces Shiite Extremists
    in the form of Hezbollah -
    and we can now say that full Civil War
    has broken out in Iraq between the Sunnis
    and the Shiites.
    None of these extremist groups -
    in their religious fervour -
    are willing to compromise.

    Thus it is that Israel
    is facing adversaries
    that are themselves threatened
    from within.
    It is for this reason -
    that it cannot reach a true truce with them.

    Lebanon may well wish such a truce -
    but it is impossible for it
    to control Hezbollah.

    The same is true for Syria,
    which is even more impacted by the actions
    of radical elements within.

    Therefore - we have that very strangest
    of all situations -
    where Israel is saying -
    we recognize that the source of the weapons -
    and that the leaders instigating the conflict -
    are in Iran and Syria -
    but our battle is not with Iran and Syria -
    and we have no intention of attacking them.

    At least not at this time.
    And that is certainly okay with Syria -
    because it doesn't want to be attacked
    by Israel.

    Iran is a different story.
    There the fundamentalists are
    already in complete control.
    There they believe they have
    their manifest destiny .
    There they are trying to urge all others
    (Syria,
    Shiites in Iraq,
    the Palestinian Authority,
    Hezbollah and Lebanon)
    to press on the attack with Israel.

    For Iran itself -
    to attack -
    would make Bush's day.
    So Iran too is presently restrained.
    The ball is in Israel's court -
    but until Israel can get more playing room -
    it is not in its interest -
    to go after the other Team's home court.

    However,
    Israel is working on that.
    Diligently -
    and THAT is what is happening
    in the Middle East.

    Israel must defeat
    (although not entirely eliminate)
    Hezbollah and Hamas -
    who have vowed to destroy it -
    and Israel must destroy
    their rockets and position
    before it goes after Syria and Iran -
    the main supporter and supplier of Hezbollah.

    For those of us
    who desire peace in the world -
    we must then ask -
    what other possible solution is there?
    Is there some other way -
    that Israel can hope to survive?
    Can it sit and wait -
    for Iran to bring its atomic bomb?
    Will the world suddenly arise
    and collectively come
    to the protection of the Jews?
    Will the Muslims have a sudden
    and complete change of heart -
    and seek to assure
    the continuation of Israel?

    Unfortunately,
    for the present situation -
    those in Israel see none of the above
    as being likely -
    and therefore none other solution
    other than the strategy
    that they are following.
    Consequently, the die is cast -
    so that events will play themselves out.
    However, out of this catastrophe -
    perhaps humankind will finally look for the solution.

    This is not just a catastrophe
    for the Jews
    and the Muslims in the Middle East.
    It is a catastrophe for the world.
    When the event occurs -
    Russia and the US will enter in.

    And all the rest of the world
    with their animosities also.
    The Muslims in Pakistan
    against the Hindus in India.
    The Japanese Shintos
    against the Korean Buddhists.
    The Chinese Communists
    against the Taiwanese Separatists.

    Religious, Secular, Racial, National,
    Patriotic, Class, Historical
    biases, prejudices, hatreds
    will explode throughout the world
    and all will enter in -
    to this Great Final Battle of Armageddon.

    But, I look beyond all these events
    of the moment -
    the reports of this rocket falling on Israel,
    those planes bombing in Lebanon,
    these insurrectionists killing so many daily
    in Iraq,
    those terrorists doing this and that -
    in this country and that -
    throughout the world.

    For we must see beyond the events -
    happening at the moment -
    to what is happening to humanity
    and the planet itself.
    For we are passing through the fire
    of purification -
    to the emergence of humanity
    from its childhood and rashness of youth
    to the maturity of the human race.

    We must look for the solution
    to build a better world.
    It is for these reasons
    that I call myself
    a Reconstructionist
    rather than a survivalist.
    That I refer to myself -
    as a DawnSayer
    rather than as a Doomsayer.

    While some wait for rapture
    and others for Christ to return on a cloud -
    I myself look for the solution
    in the Baha'i Teachings.

    The Baha'i Teachings say that
    there is no other long term solution
    but that humanity must form a world government.
    And even that will not be enough.

    "That the divers communions of the earth, and the manifold systems of
    religious belief, should never be allowed to foster the feelings of
    animosity among men, is, in this Day, of the essence of the Faith of God and
    His Religion. These principles and laws, these firmly-established and mighty
    systems, have proceeded from one Source, and are rays of one Light. That
    they differ one from another is to be attributed to the varying requirements
    of the ages in which they were promulgated.

    Gird up the loins of your endeavor, O people of Baha, that haply the tumult
    of religious dissension and strife that agitateth the peoples of the earth
    may be stilled, that every trace of it may be completely obliterated. For
    the love of God, and them that serve Him, arise to aid this sublime and
    momentous Revelation. Religious fanaticism and hatred are a world-devouring
    fire, whose violence none can quench. The Hand of Divine power can, alone,
    deliver mankind from this desolating affliction

    (Baha'u'llah,
    Epistle to the Son of the Wolf,
    p. 13)

    God is working His Purpose out.
    Through His Permissive Will,
    He is permitting humanity
    to see the error of their ways.

    Racism, religionism, patriotism -
    all stages and systems of developing humanity -
    must now be replaced by higher ideals.

    "'We desire but the good of the world and the happiness of the nations --
    that all nations should become one in faith and all men as brothers; that
    all bonds of affection and unity between the sons of men should be
    strengthened; that diversity of religion should cease and differences of
    race be annulled -- and so it shall be; these fruitless strifes, these
    ruinous wars shall pass away and the most great peace shall come. Is not
    this that which Christ foretold? Let not a man glory in this, that he loves
    his country; let him rather glory in this, that he loves his kind.'"

    (Abdu'l-Baha,
    Divine Philosophy,
    p. 10)

    Some see the events of these days
    as the end -
    but others of us
    see it as the beginning.

    One must have the proper perspective
    in order to understand
    what is happening.

    Peace and love,
    Bruce
    DawnSayer@webpal.org</pre>
     
  4. melbo

    melbo Hunter Gatherer Administrator Founding Member

    He had me going until the Baha'i shit....
    I should have noticed the style ...
    All these Baha guys write like this

    And now I do too

    Shalom
     
  5. ghrit

    ghrit Old, mean, and nasty Administrator Founding Member

    Had you going or not, he's got a lot of points.

    War, one might say, is between political entities regardless of religion. This alledged "war" is not war, it is terrorism that often runs counter to the wishes of the general political preferences of the nation housing the perps. That is the difficulty with terrorists, they do not have a home turf that needs defending. They set up camp, do their thing for a while, then decamp and set up another base to raise hell from. Pretty tough to root them out, the more so if the local political entity winks at their presence, and denies any interest or knowlege. The actuality of it is that if they don't wink, they become targets as well.

    The Israelis have a turf, for example that they will defend at all costs, and to do so, they need a buffer zone. I think once that is established, and a link between terrorists and Iran is more firmly established, Iran is going to have a problem. Israel will not occupy Iran, there are just simply not enough Israelis to do that, but they can and will destroy something. Mossad simply isn't ready, their base is not yet secure, but there are a couple mullahs that should take steps to modify their kill all attitudes.

    Sectarian violence is not new, and we have it aplenty in Iraq. That is their problem, all our politically correct hand wringing aside, one or the other sect will come out on top, and will always and forever be subject to getting picked off for some trumped up reason. Again, their problem. We don't seek to impose our way of life so much as try to convince them that it is better to cooperate than to kill each other off.

    The second is coming, with Ali or Jesus, or both.
     
  6. TailorMadeHell

    TailorMadeHell Lurking Shadow Creature

    That was, uh, something. He put it forth into such an eloquent form pointing out all the different reasons that the war continues. The strategy they needed to take and a lot of other stuff. Had me saying yea that's right. Then bam, got hit with a One World, One People speech. Should have guessed that when the 'Temporarily give up civil rights during war time' hit me. Just kept reading though. Though thats the way it's supposed to work eh? Get you calm and saying That's right and then suck you in until you give up this for the war effort, then give up a little more until you have nothing left. And people with nothing left cannot fight against those that took it if they don't give it back freely.

    Sounds good to be one people and one government. Sounds good to be all peace, love and harmony. The only way that will happen on this planet is if God himself came down and he was the one leader and we all followed him. Will never happen otherwise.

    How so? Everyone else is human. And we all know that most humans can be corrupted to power and greed. Tis the natural way. Beat your neighbor over the head and take what's his. Strong survive and all that jazz. There are those that are enlightened to know the true path. However they are too few to correct the big problem. Just my thoughts on the situation. I'm definitely awake now boy. Gotta be more careful. Sheesh. Enjoy.
     
  7. melbo

    melbo Hunter Gatherer Administrator Founding Member

    http://www.homelandsecurityus.com

    Special Reports : World War IV
    Posted by Sean Osborne on 2006/7/22 6:36:14 ( )

    Ultimately, and with little forewarning, World War IV in all of its mass destructiveness will arrive on our shores - in the American heartland. Hezbollah, Al Qaeda, HAMAS and other various proxy stooges of all nationalities or citizenships can and will strike our apparent national ambivalence to this direct threat.

    See UPDATE below main article.

    By Sean Osborne, Associate Director, Senior Analyst, Military Affairs
    sosborne@homelandsecurityus.com

    22 July 2006: The current military situation in the Middle East is EVERYONE'S worst nightmare - whether they individually or collectively realize it at this moment or not. I say this due to the fact that, believe it or not, some here in the United States don’t believe this war will amount to much of anything for American’s to be concerned about. They do not realize or accept that we are engaged in World War IV. (I classify the so-called “Cold War” as World War III.)

    They are wrong, and probably dead wrong.

    To be sure, this is not just another Arab versus Israel war. This is an existential war. This is a war specifically begun via proxy as designed and prepared for by the regime of the Islamic Republic of Iran, Syria and their military allies. Israel is both the initial target and the ultimate objective.

    So is the United States of America.

    America is an enemy objective and a part of this war because we have been targeted by the Iranian regime, their proxy terrorist forces and allied nations due to our support of Israel.

    As long as America stands behind Israel as the arsenal of democracy and best hope of freedom the enemy axis powers know full well they cannot hope to defeat Israel on the battlefield. The Iranian plan has always been to ignite the two front war in Israel, and then to hit the US with a haymaker from our blindside. Their plan, the Hojjatieh sect of Shi’a Islam plan, has always been to ignite an Armageddon-like scenario, to collapse “Anglo-Saxon civilization” as an intregal part of the overall objective to achieve hegemony over all of the Middle East, Islam and the oil beneath those lands. Thus in executing these objectives nothing less than World War IV will result.

    The Order of Battle

    The events in Gaza and Northern Israel were the well coordinated triggering events which launched this war. The rapid escalation and weaponry brought to bear are indicative of the battle plan prepared well in advance of hostilities. Recent engagements illustrate this in an unambiguous manner.

    A week ago an Israeli Navy SA’ar-5 class corvette, the “Ahi Hanit”, was struck by an Iranian C-802 shore-to-ship variant of the Communist Chinese designed YJ-8 family of cruise missiles. Iran purchased at least sixty C-802’s from the Chinese PLA. The C-802 missile (NATO Codename: CSS-N-8 SACCADE) was launched under inertial guidance from the Lebanese littoral most likely by Iranian Revolutionary Guard Corps (IRGC) troops. Most open-source military reports state that this cruise missile is radar guided. True, all indications are that the C-802 has a J-band (10 – 20 Gigahertz) terminal active radar guidance seeker in the warhead.

    What has not been widely reported, however, is that an Iranian submarine, which I believe to be a Russian-made SSK Kilo-class electric-diesel boat, was nearby at the time. Did this Iranian sub provide some form of terminal guidance to the C-802 missile? It’s possible. That the sub was in the area of combat operations prior to the execution of the battle plan also speaks to the detailed preparations made by Iran. There are no reports that I am aware of which reported this sub transiting north-bound through the Suez Canal. The lack of this information in open-sources means that the Iranian sub had quite a long voyage around the African continent to arrive on station prior to hostilities. My theory is that upon reaching the Strait of Gibraltar the Iranian sub performed a maneuver that is known as “degaussing.” It parked itself directly underneath an eastbound commercial freighter and made the run through the strait completely under electrical power. It then continued along a 100 fathom line along the North African coast to the area of Tunisia and on to the eastern Mediterranean Sea.

    Just about 48 hours ago I learned of the first open-source report on the detection of this submarine. The CBN report stated that a U.S. Air Force RC-135V/W "Rivet Joint" reconnaissance aircraft detected the Iranian submarine with its very sensitive Electronic Intelligence (ELINT) sensor array. The CBN report then commented on the full-extent of the electronic surveillance capabilities of the “Rivet Joint” aircraft by noting its sensors had also detected Iranian ballistic missile activities and shipments of these missiles to Lebanon.

    In the past couple of days Israeli SOF had located an Iranian Zelzal-2 (Earthquake) short range ballistic missile (SRBM) on its launcher in Lebanon. The missile, with a maximum range of about 250 miles, was prepped and ready to launch. An immediate air strike guided by on-the-ground Israeli Special Forces laser designators was radioed in. The air strike on the missile launcher threw the Zelzal airborne momentarily and ultimately impacting the ground a very short distance away. Scratch one Zelzal. More Iranian Zelzal’s were targeted in the exact same manner as they crossed from Syria into Lebanon. When you read of or see broadcast reports of Israeli air strikes on bridges between Lebanon and Syria along the Beirut-Damascus highway and other avenues into Lebanon they are specifically intended to halt the flow of such war material. However, conservative estimates are that enemy combatants in Lebanon had at least 200 of these Iranian ballistic missiles prior to hostilities erupting.

    The Current Situation Report (SITREP)

    The war has the Israeli Defense Forces fully engaged, although not to the level of their entire strategic depth, but fairly close to that level. The Israeli’s are prepared for any battlefield eventuality, including the use of WMD. In fact, Israeli ground forces are about to move into southern Lebanon on a large scale combat operation to engage all enemy combatants. This may include Lebanese army forces who reportedly will side themselves with Hezbollah and IRGC forces. The Syrian military has been making moves of its own by targeting its own missile forces on Israeli targets. One can reasonably expect that this is totally unacceptable to the Israeli High Command and a pre-emptive strike against Syrian targets is an imminent probability. The point of all this is to illustrate that this war is just getting to the boiling point and its escalation to full-scale regional warfare can happen within hours or minutes of your reading this article. I suspect that this war will involve the first use of weapons of mass destruction in the near term against Israel with the resultant immediate Israeli retaliatory response directed against the Syrian capital city Damascus.

    Can Israeli pre-emptive strikes against rear-echelon targets in Iran be far behind? And for how long will US and Coalition forces in the CENTCOM AO remain unengaged in the war given the Iranian strategic objectives alluded to above?

    Ultimately, and with little forewarning, World War IV in all of its mass destructiveness will arrive on our shores - in the American heartland. Hezbollah, Al Qaeda, HAMAS and other various proxy stooges of all nationalities or citizenships can and will strike our apparent national ambivalence to this direct threat. The Northeast Intelligence Network has been consistently warning of this inevitability for a very long time, and I must now repeat the admonition to the whole of America: If you have not been vigilant in your local community before, you absolutely must be so engaged at this time. America is a primary target, a major military objective of Iran, its proxies and allies. Your survival depends upon the level of vigilance and preparations you may or may not have bothered to exert up to this minute. Personal responsibility, prudent planning and preparations are all that stand between you and your family, indeed your own neighborhood and region of the nation, and the war which is now in progress. God help us all.

    UPDATE

    This special report has resulted in an overwhelming flood of emails requesting me to define for individuals and families what I meant by being "engaged at this time". The following are my observations and recommendations in this regard.

    First, foremost and paraphrasing my favorite ex-Green Beret, John Moore (a/k/a The Liberty Man) :

    1. The U.S. government cannot and will not protect individuals or families. Our government agencies are doing the best job they can to keep our country safe. However, no government agency (including FEMA) is responsible for a comprehensive defense program.

    2. Each individual business and family must make their own preparations to be safe from the consequences of a terrorist attack. Please consider:

    a.) We have "just in time" delivery of everything from auto parts to life sustaining pharmaceuticals.

    b.) Every part of our infrastructure is a potential target.

    c.) A break anywhere in this infrastructure (telecommunications, transportation, utilities) can cause the whole system to fail. Consequently, every citizen is at risk to suffer the consequences of a terrorist attack happening anywhere in the country.

    www.TheLibertyMan.Com

    Okay, that stated as sucinctly as possible, what do you do individually to prepare yourself, your family, your group of friends, your neighborhood?

    I suggest the following 8-point minimum regimen be executed ASAP in an effort to transition from a possible victim to a potential survivor:

    1.) Non-perishable foodstuffs and fruit juices or reconsitutable/concentrated juices or milk for a minimum of 30 - 60 days sustainment per individual.

    2.) Lot's of H2O in cases of individual servings or large bottles and 5-gallon containers. As much as you can possibly collect.

    3.) A portable generator, batteries for every device in the house which may require them.

    4.) Communications. Hand crank radios like the small Grundig ($20.00) sold by Radio Shack, or any battery operated solid state radio.

    5.) Ammo for your personal firearm(s). Execute your Second Amendment rights. Hopefully you don't live in New Jersey as I do.

    6.) Fuels: Gasoline or Diesel as you require. Get it now gas/diesel are currently at anywhere from $3.05/$2.75 per gallon. I would expect these prices will increase substantially in the very near term - a direct reflection of the Iranian desire for $100 per barrel crude. Fill your 5 gallon cans now if at all possible.

    7.) An evacuation plan and lay-up points enroute. In case your area is particularly hard hit and an evacuation is ordered by national or state authorities, have a designated place to go and coordinated plans with fellow travellers if at all possible. Strength is found in numbers.

    8.) Keep your bank account well as fed as you are able. If terrorists hit the electrical grid or if an EMP device is utilized during hostilities you will still need to pay any bills. Whatever is not in the bank have liquid as cash-on-hand. ATM's and banks will probably get swamped or could be inoperable for a short time by those who did not prudently plan or prepare ahead of time. The "snooze, you lose" mentality applies here.

    Plan for the worst, hope for the best, and pray for personal guidance from God.

    Move Out and Execute as much as you are able which applies to your own situation as quickly as you can "Git R Done".


     
  8. Clyde

    Clyde Jet Set Tourer Administrator Founding Member

    Yes, its gonna get uglier!

    <nyt_kicker>Changing Reaction</nyt_kicker>
    <nyt_headline version="1.0" type=" "> Tide of Arab Opinion Turns to Support for Hezbollah </nyt_headline>

    <nyt_byline version="1.0" type=" "> </nyt_byline>By NEIL MacFARQUHAR
    <nyt_text> </nyt_text> DAMASCUS, Syria, July 27 — At the onset of the Lebanese crisis, Arab governments, starting with Saudi Arabia, slammed Hezbollah for recklessly provoking a war, providing what the United States and Israel took as a wink and a nod to continue the fight.
    Now, with hundreds of Lebanese dead and Hezbollah holding out against the vaunted Israeli military for more than two weeks, the tide of public opinion across the Arab world is surging behind the organization, transforming the Shiite group’s leader, Sheik Hassan Nasrallah, into a folk hero and forcing a change in official statements.
    The Saudi royal family and King Abdullah II of Jordan, who were initially more worried about the rising power of Shiite Iran, Hezbollah’s main sponsor, are scrambling to distance themselves from Washington.
    An outpouring of newspaper columns, cartoons, blogs and public poetry readings have showered praise on Hezbollah while attacking the United States and Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice for trumpeting American plans for a “new Middle East” that they say has led only to violence and repression.
    Even Al Qaeda, run by violent Sunni Muslim extremists normally hostile to all Shiites, has gotten into the act, with its deputy leader, Ayman al-Zawahri, releasing a taped message saying that through its fighting in Iraq, his organization was also trying to liberate Palestine.
    Mouin Rabbani, a senior Middle East analyst in Amman, Jordan, with the International Crisis Group, said, “The Arab-Israeli conflict remains the most potent issue in this part of the world.”
    Distinctive changes in tone are audible throughout the Sunni world. This week, President Hosni Mubarak of Egypt emphasized his attempts to arrange a cease-fire to protect all sects in Lebanon, while the Jordanian king announced that his country was dispatching medical teams “for the victims of Israeli aggression.” Both countries have peace treaties with Israel.
    The Saudi royal court has issued a dire warning that its 2002 peace plan — offering Israel full recognition by all Arab states in exchange for returning to the borders that predated the 1967 Arab-Israeli war — could well perish.
    “If the peace option is rejected due to the Israeli arrogance,” it said, “then only the war option remains, and no one knows the repercussions befalling the region, including wars and conflict that will spare no one, including those whose military power is now tempting them to play with fire.”
    The Saudis were putting the West on notice that they would not exert pressure on anyone in the Arab world until Washington did something to halt the destruction of Lebanon, Saudi commentators said.
    American officials say that while the Arab leaders need to take a harder line publicly for domestic political reasons, what matters more is what they tell the United States in private, which the Americans still see as a wink and a nod.
    There are evident concerns among Arab governments that a victory for Hezbollah — and it has already achieved something of a victory by holding out this long — would further nourish the Islamist tide engulfing the region and challenge their authority. Hence their first priority is to cool simmering public opinion.
    But perhaps not since President Gamal Abdel Nasser of Egypt made his emotional outpourings about Arab unity in the 1960’s, before the Arab defeat in the 1967 war, has the public been so electrified by a confrontation with Israel, played out repeatedly on satellite television stations with horrific images from Lebanon of wounded children and distraught women fleeing their homes.
    Egypt’s opposition press has had a field day comparing Sheik Nasrallah to Nasser, while demonstrators waved pictures of both.
    An editorial in the weekly Al Dustur by Ibrahim Issa, who faces a lengthy jail sentence for his previous criticism of President Mubarak, compared current Arab leaders to the medieval princes who let the Crusaders chip away at Muslim lands until they controlled them all.
    After attending an intellectual rally in Cairo for Lebanon, the Egyptian poet Ahmed Fouad Negm wrote a column describing how he had watched a companion buy 20 posters of Sheik Nasrallah.
    “People are praying for him as they walk in the street, because we were made to feel oppressed, weak and handicapped,” Mr. Negm said in an interview. “I asked the man who sweeps the street under my building what he thought, and he said: ‘Uncle Ahmed, he has awakened the dead man inside me! May God make him triumphant!’ ”
    In Lebanon, Rasha Salti, a freelance writer, summarized the sense that Sheik Nasrallah differed from other Arab leaders.
    “Since the war broke out, Hassan Nasrallah has displayed a persona, and public behavior also, to the exact opposite of Arab heads of states,” she wrote in an e-mail message posted on many blogs.
    In comparison, Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice’s brief visit to the region sparked widespread criticism of her cold demeanor and her choice of words, particularly a statement that the bloodshed represented the birth pangs of a “new Middle East.” That catchphrase was much used by Shimon Peres, the veteran Israeli leader who was a principal negotiator of the 1993 Oslo Accords, which ultimately failed to lead to the Palestinian state they envisaged.
    A cartoon by Emad Hajjaj in Jordan labeled “The New Middle East” showed an Israeli tank sitting on a broken apartment house in the shape of the Arab world.
    Fawaz al-Trabalsi, a columnist in the Lebanese daily As Safir, suggested that the real new thing in the Middle East was the ability of one group to challenge Israeli militarily.
    Perhaps nothing underscored Hezbollah’s rising stock more than the sudden appearance of a tape from the Qaeda leadership attempting to grab some of the limelight.
    Al Jazeera satellite television broadcast a tape from Mr. Zawahri (za-WAH-ri). Large panels behind him showed a picture of the exploding World Trade Center as well as portraits of two Egyptian Qaeda members, Muhammad Atef, a Qaeda commander who was killed by an American airstrike in Afghanistan, and Mohamed Atta, the lead hijacker on Sept. 11, 2001. He described the two as fighters for the Palestinians.
    Mr. Zawahri tried to argue that the fight against American forces in Iraq paralleled what Hezbollah was doing, though he did not mention the organization by name.
    “It is an advantage that Iraq is near Palestine,” he said. “Muslims should support its holy warriors until an Islamic emirate dedicated to jihad is established there, which could then transfer the jihad to the borders of Palestine.”
    Mr. Zawahri also adopted some of the language of Hezbollah and Shiite Muslims in general. That was rather ironic, since previously in Iraq, Al Qaeda has labeled Shiites Muslim as infidels and claimed responsibility for some of the bloodier assaults on Shiite neighborhoods there.
    But by taking on Israel, Hezbollah had instantly eclipsed Al Qaeda, analysts said. “Everyone will be asking, ‘Where is Al Qaeda now?’ ” said Adel al-Toraifi, a Saudi columnist and expert on Sunni extremists.
    Mr. Rabbani of the International Crisis Group said Hezbollah’s ability to withstand the Israeli assault and to continue to lob missiles well into Israel exposed the weaknesses of Arab governments with far greater resources than Hezbollah.
    “Public opinion says that if they are getting more on the battlefield than you are at the negotiating table, and you have so many more means at your disposal, then what the hell are you doing?” Mr. Rabbani said. “In comparison with the small embattled guerrilla movement, the Arab states seem to be standing idly by twiddling their thumbs.”
    <nyt_author_id></nyt_author_id>Mona el-Naggar contributed reporting from Cairo for this article, and Suha Maayeh from Amman, Jordan.
     
  9. Factfind

    Factfind Old Hand

  10. Seacowboys

    Seacowboys Senior Member Founding Member

    [​IMG]
     
  11. BRONZ

    BRONZ Monkey+++ Moderator Emeritus Founding Member

    Good graph Sea

    and good read, well most of it.
     
  12. ozarkgoatman

    ozarkgoatman Resident goat herder

    This is were he lost me. I would say to him or anyone else that believes this, that if we give up our civil rights then they have already won.

    OGM
     
  13. ghrit

    ghrit Old, mean, and nasty Administrator Founding Member

    You'll soon see that QS often has his tongue firmly planted in his cheek. :lol:
     
  14. Tango3

    Tango3 Aimless wanderer

  15. TailorMadeHell

    TailorMadeHell Lurking Shadow Creature

    I doubt she is still alive unless she lives other than in a muslim controlled country. I liked what she had to say and it is true that the fanatics are blowing themselves and everyone else up and asking for respect in the same breath. If this is how they ask for respect, the only respect I will show them comes from the barrell of a gun.

    They are a religion based on anger and hatred and they will continue to be unless their true leaders pull their heads out of their fourth (or third, I can never remember) point of contact and straighten this mess up once and for all. Could it happen? Yes. Will it happen? Sure, as soon as pigs fly.
     
  16. Factfind

    Factfind Old Hand

  17. ghrit

    ghrit Old, mean, and nasty Administrator Founding Member

  18. TailorMadeHell

    TailorMadeHell Lurking Shadow Creature

    'Well let's just face facts. We are going to have the whole of the Arabic world down our throats with nukes, suicide bombers, dirty bombs or plagues, here shortly. The current admin will be blamed for it. The republicans will be shamed. The democrats will leave us wide open for any and all fanatic that has a grudge. We will get hit again as we did on that day in September. In order to establish peace, we will have to disarm everyone including Bubba hiding out in the swamps.

    Nancy Pelosi will be leading the 'Have you hugged a muslim' campaign. Hillary will allow them to acrue frequent flyer miles. And VP Kerry will in a constant state of denial as to whether he should wear black socks or white socks with dress shoes.

    The borders will be opened so that everyone can have a taste of the Freedom while it is short lived. We will become the great country of Mexicanadus and be mandated to speak Arabic, Spanish and French.

    Nothing can prepare us for this except ourselves. There is only one way that we can know what will happen is when we look to how the Nazis run the show. No free thought, no children unless you are in the special breeding program, food will be rationed as the big wigs get fat while we starve, no firearms, no sharp sticks, no knives and no happiness.

    Don't think it's coming? Think it's a conspiracy? Think I'm a tin-foil ranger? Well when they kick in your doors then you will awaken to the fact that such simple steps are just like a chess game. One by one they are positioning themselves on the board while putting restraints on anyone that would act out or speak out against this.

    Soon it will be time to grab your things and head for the hills as we are overrun by those from other lands who are brought here to quell any 'uprisings'.

    And I am not talking of tomorrow or maybe next week, though you can bet that it will come. The world is progressing and if you don't progress with it, you will be cast aside in favor of those who can be blindly led to the slaughter.

    I'm still working on a solution so when I have it, I will let you know.'


    This post has been hijerked by 'Holy crap, run for the hills'. You can contact said poster at holycraprun@theyarecomingtogetme.groan. Not Really.
     
  19. Brokor

    Brokor Live Free or Cry Moderator Site Supporter+++ Founding Member

    P2OG

    Do a google.
     
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