Would Thomas Jefferson think we are Free?

Discussion in 'Freedom and Liberty' started by tacmotusn, Apr 10, 2012.

  1. tacmotusn

    tacmotusn RIP 1/13/21


    By Steven L. Hayes and Charles Adams
    What if Jefferson were to revisit America today?
    Thomas Jefferson was born on April 13, 1743. In his lifetime he saw his country transformed from an English colony to a country ruled by its own citizens. Remembered by many as the author of the Declaration of Independence, Jefferson also served as President and guided the young nation through eight turbulent years. When Jefferson died on July 4, 1826 at the age of 83, he left a country and a people whose commitment to the ideas of the Declaration of Independence seemed firmly in place.
    On this April 13,just after dinner, there is a knock on your door. When you open the door, you see a tall slender man with red hair. He introduces himself as Thomas Jefferson. You don't automatically slam the door and call the police but, almost against your will, you invite him in your home. Somehow you accept that this man is not an escapee from an asylum but that he really is Thomas Jefferson.
    Jefferson is curious about everything and has a number of questions for you. He marvels at all the new technology in your home. He insists on a lengthy explanation and demonstration of all the appliances and machines in your home. Amazed at how quickly he understands the new technologies, you suddenly remember the statement made by President John Kennedy when he hosted a gathering of Nobel Prize winners at the White House. President Kennedy said, "This is the most extraordinary collection of talent, of human knowledge, that has ever been gathered together at the White House with the possible exception of when Thomas Jefferson dined alone."
    His attention is drawn to the dining room table and the numerous complicated-looking forms with numbers like "1040" or "W2" or "1099" on them. He politely asks, "What are you doing?" You feel uncomfortable, almost as if you have a guilty conscience, but you aren't sure why. You answer, "Each year on April 15, Americans are required to file an income tax return with the Internal Revenue Service, a branch of the Treasury Department. On this return, we are required to list the source and amount of all our income. The amount of income determines the percent of tax that we pay. The higher the income, the higher the rate of tax."
    Then you continue, "However, the government has tried to make it simple. All Americans who work for others are required to have an estimate of their tax deducted from their earnings before they receive their pay. We call this withholding. Also, the law requires us to place our social security number on all our bank accounts. All banks where we deposit our money and people who sell stocks for us report the amount of money we earned in each account and on each transaction to the Internal Revenue Service. These actions are necessary because the government wants to ensure that all of the income taxes are collected. You see, they really don't trust the people to pay."
    Jefferson is visibly stunned. "You mean Americans are required to tell an agency of the government how much money they made and where they earned it?"
    "Yes," you answer. Puzzled, Jefferson says to you, "The government must have had a great financial emergency which made such a despotic tax system necessary to pay off a great deficit."
    You sadly explain that there really was no emergency. You explain how the admitted national debt is in excess of $4 trillion and increasing by $200 billion each year.
    Jefferson, mostly to himself, says, "In my Second Inaugural Address I warned that we must meet all of the expenses of each year without encroaching on the rights of future generations by burdening them with the debts of the past. All of us had seen the devastating effects of a national debt."
    Then Jefferson asks you if you really said that the more money you earned, the higher the rate of tax you had to pay. You slowly confirm this simple fact. Strangely, it no longer seems harmless.
    In a sad voice, Jefferson says, "When we wrote the Constitution, all of us knew history. We knew that great civilizations began to decline when they introduced direct taxation. In the Constitution, we restricted direct taxation because we knew it would yield the same result experienced by other nations using direct taxation-erosion of individual rights and the oppression of the minority by the majority because it could use its political power to use the government to steal from the minority."
    Then Jefferson says to himself, "How can this be? Have Americans forgotten history?" You look at this man who, together with a few others, so eloquently gave birth to the idea of freedom that has pervaded the United States for most of its existence and is being echoed around the world today by countries throwing off despotism. Now embarrassed and truly ashamed, you explain that Americans, like sheep to the slaughter, meekly went along with each new law that stripped away more of their freedom.
    In World War II, Americans agreed to income tax withholding as a "temporary measure" to help win the war. Of course, withholding was never ended and has become a permanent fixture. Then came the plausible rule that our social security number should be on all our accounts. In this way, the government ensures that no one evades reporting the income earned in their accounts. Of course, then came the rule that all bank accounts should file information returns and that most transactions should be reported to the government.
    You state that the income tax rules are incomprehensible, that no one understands them but that the taxpayer is still responsible for compliance. You tell him that in tax matters, Americans are guilty until proven innocent. You explain how an agent of the government can come into your home and inspect all of your checks and papers and ask you to explain the purpose ofeach check. If the agent decides that you have not fully complied with the incomprehensible income tax code, he can arbitrarily decide that you owe more tax. If your taxes are not paid, your bank accounts can be seized and your home and other properties auctioned.
    "Our people fought a revolution because of government intrusion far less than this," Jefferson says. "It is inconceivable that any of us would have tolerated this type of government tyranny. A government that has to enforce a tax on its people will not willingly pay is a government that should be immediately overthrown. In a letter to James Madison in 1787, I said, 'I hold it that a little rebellion, now and then, is a good thing, and as necessary in the political world as storms in the physical. It is a medicine necessary for the sound health of government.' Are you sure that I am in the right country? There must have been a revolution. Real Americans would never have given up their rights without a fight."
    Seeing your bowed head, he knows the answer. There was no revolution. Now deeply ashamed, you try to excuse yourself by explaining to him that people who refuse to obey the tax laws are often sent to prison, sometimes for 25 to 30 years.
    Jefferson just stares at you. In a low, anguished voice he says, "Is this what we risked our lives for? We thought we were giving future generations a free country ruled by the people for the people. What you have done is taken our idea and twisted it. You have freely submitted to despotism much worse than we faced. You may think that you are free, but that is because you choose not to see your chains or the walls that imprison you. No, my friend, you live in a prison. You work for the government, not for yourselves. Your ancestors would not know you. I am sorry for my country and I am sorry for you." Without another word, Jefferson walks out the door.
    As you see his tall figure disappear into the mist, you are sadder than you can remember ever being. You now must admit to yourself what you have been trying to explain away. What Jefferson said is true. What has happened to us is what Thomas Paine predicted would happen if Americans lost their freedom. Our freedoms have not been taken away all at once but a little at a time. Jefferson could see it. If you really look, you can see it too.
    As you prepare your personal taxes, please think for a minute about what Thomas Jefferson would say as we meekly submit to our government and how the Fair Tax will change our lives.
    • We will insure the safety of social security
    • We will bring jobs back to the United States
    • We will have strong economic growth
    • We will dramatically increase our exports
    • We will eliminate the direct taxation of the income tax
    • We will have achieved what Jefferson wanted in 1801, 90% of Americans will never again see a tax collector.
    If you believe in personal freedom and economic growth, please join Fair Tax Educational Association. We are a 501(c)(3) and your membership is tax deductible. While like all organizations we always need money, it is more important for us to show that more and more people are standing with us. The basic membership is only $5.00. Give more if you can but please join and stand with us for the rebirth of personal and economic freedom in our great country.
    Let’s make this the last April 15th we have to endure.

  3. larryinalabama

    larryinalabama Monkey++

    Quote NO
  4. larryinalabama

    larryinalabama Monkey++

    Does The usa still stand for freedom????
  5. oth47

    oth47 Monkey+

    I think Jefferson would be on his way to Washington with his musket over his shoulder.And I think he'd have very few followers.
  6. Minuteman

    Minuteman Chaplain Moderator Founding Member

    There is a great book called "Tempus Fugit" time flies. The storyline is that George Washington, Thomas Jefferson and Ben Franklin are somehow transported to modern day America. The author spend years studying every thing that they themselves had written to understand them and how they thought and how they might react to a situation. It is a great book but unfortunately the planned sequel has yet to be written. I believe it was intended to be a trilogy.
    My favorite part is when they first appear in the woods around Mt. Rushmore. They are staring up at the faces and (IIRC) TJ says "We have become sphinxes!"

    And yes they decide to head for DC to see what the hell happened to their country.

  7. Seawolf1090

    Seawolf1090 Retired Curmudgeonly IT Monkey Founding Member

    Mr. Jefferson would be appalled, but at the same time, likely not too surprised. He foresaw exactly what has happened, and told us how to NOT let it happen - WE failed the Founders. We failed ourselves, and our children and grandchildren.
    larryinalabama and Sapper John like this.
  8. Expatman

    Expatman Monkey

    I agree with the above. It started when we began to teach history to our children and they began to fail to learn what this country is supposed to be about.

    Freedom is no longer what it used to be it seems.
  9. ghrit

    ghrit Bad company Administrator Founding Member

    I would argue that freedom is what it always was, and that we have tied our own hands via the electoral process. [monkeyeating] We can cut that knot the same way, if we wish; it's a matter of electing the right representation.

    "All politics is local." And it will work its way up, if nurtured. ;)
    oldawg likes this.
  10. No, we are definitely NOT free and Thomas Jefferson certainly would not think so as he was exactly against the type of control and massive corruption there is today.

    Anyone who does not see this is a loyal slave who has learned to love the lash. The Founding Fathers are rolling in their graves over the state of things today.

    No more "Land of the Free, Home of the Brave" by far. It is now "Land of the Fee, Home of the Slave".
    jollyrodger13 likes this.
  11. The state of things has NOTHING to do with the children today. It has to do with the previous generations and the elderly alive today who have sat back and allowed it to become like it is. Of course this is common sense. You do not blame the young for the older generations mistakes.

    The elders here should be ashamed of themselves for how things are today and bringing children into the world without having the mess cleaned up. How can children see what the country is about when they have elders who have allowed it to get this way. Obviously the elders have no clue what it is about or they would have preserved it.

    The young people have been robbed beyond all with some of the poorest opportunities ever and the elderly are just sitting doing nothing expecting the young people to take care of it with no resources or help. Yet the elderly are the only ones who have the tools and money and time to have done so yet never have or will.
    tulianr and jollyrodger13 like this.
  12. Redneck Rebel

    Redneck Rebel Monkey++

    Shoot you were a slave to the system the moment mom & dad paid the tax for your birth certificate and applied for your SSN
    sgt peppersass likes this.
  13. NotSoSneaky

    NotSoSneaky former supporter

    Mr Jefferson would have a collection of heads on a pike in short order if he were still alive.
  14. STANGF150

    STANGF150 Knowledge Seeker

    ConstitutionReloading. ForeFathers.
  15. CAT-astrophic

    CAT-astrophic Monkey++

    Stang, I love that loading picture!! Everything I have been thinking is summed up by that image. A picture is worth a thousand words :D
  16. jollyrodger13

    jollyrodger13 ready for action

    I totaly agree and wish it could be changed! the problem is the powers that be don't wish to lose their control, their power! would you want to lose your free healthcare and a pile of other benefits. I remember I think the late 70's, the house or senate had it's own personal bank, which had to be closed because it's members were writing so many bad checks, the bank was deep in the RED!! there is the line from a rock & roll song, Meet the new BOSS, same as the OLD BOSS!![ditto][beer]
  17. Brokenpatriot

    Brokenpatriot Monkey

    No way. We are less free today then most will admit.

    Our Constitution is regularly disregarded, our electoral process is so corrupt it no longer matters how you vote, and our government has come to embody everything that our founding fathers revolted against!
  18. melbo

    melbo Hunter Gatherer Administrator Founding Member

  19. NotSoSneaky

    NotSoSneaky former supporter

    Where can I get that shirt ?
  20. Mechwolf

    Mechwolf Monkey+

    NotSoSneaky likes this.
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