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Wrong Door Again!

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Seacowboys, Dec 17, 2007.

  1. Seacowboys

    Seacowboys Senior Member Founding Member

    Bad information leads police to wrong house; bullets fly

    Minneapolis cops wearing bullet-proof vests were not hurt; homeowner says he fired in self-defense.
    Police blamed bad information for sending a SWAT team into a north Minneapolis house early Sunday morning in a raid that ended with shots exchanged between police -- who were struck by bullets -- and the resident, who said he was just defending his family.
    The homeowner, who does not speak English, told his brother that he thought the police were the "bad guys" after they broke through the back door of the house, where he lives with his wife and six children. He fired and hit two police officers, who were not injured thanks to their bullet-proof vests and helmets, police said in a statement.
    The Police Department's SWAT team was trying to search the two-story house at 12:46 a.m. in the 1300 block of Logan Avenue N., as part of an investigation by the Violent Offender Task Force. But police said that they learned later that bad information led them to that house.
    "It was found out that this particular address was not part of that long-term investigation," police spokesman Sgt. Jesse Garcia III told KSTP-TV on Sunday. He told KMSP-TV that it was a "bad situation."
    "It could have been much worse," Garcia added.
    Dao Khang, who is the brother of the homeowner, Vang Khang, said his brother feared for his safety. "He took out his shotgun and he said if they are bad guys I'll shoot, I'll scare them away," Khang said. "He fired first, he told me it was two shots."
    Vang Khang was taken into custody but later released. Dao Khang said his brother has been in contact with a lawyer and is considering legal action.
    Khang and his children, who range in age from 3 to 15, were shaken, Dao Khang said. "All these gunshots in the house. They don't know what's going on. Flying bullets in the house and they just cried," he said.
    Garcia told KMSP that police grabbed the family's children and shielded them during the incident.
    Garcia did not return repeated calls from the Star Tribune on Sunday. Questions about the shooting on Sunday night were referred to Lt. Amelia Huffman, head of the homicide unit, who also did not return calls.
    No one answered the front door at the house on Sunday night.
    In a statement released shortly after 5 a.m. Sunday, police said that officers found no one on the first floor of the house. When they made their way up to the second floor, they were confronted by an adult male. The officers identified themselves as police, and the man fired several rounds at them. Several officers returned fire, but no one in the house was injured.
    Investigations by the Minneapolis Police Department's homicide and internal affairs units are underway. According to standard department procedures, the officers involved have been placed on paid administrative leave during the initial investigation.
    The names of the officers were not immediately available
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 26, 2015
  2. AlterEgo

    AlterEgo Monkey+++

    Gotta love our "Law Enforcement" Goons.

    BPV's won't help them much if they come in here, that's for sure.
  3. gillman7

    gillman7 Monkey+++


    Homeowner fires twice, hits 2 cops.

    Cops return fire, no one in the house injured........

    Nuff said
  4. ozarkgoatman

    ozarkgoatman Resident goat herder

    Yea and that was a SWAT team that should be trained better than regular LEO's :unsure: Like I've said on here before the cops that I have seen can't shoot. :rolleyes:

  5. hartage

    hartage Monkey+++

    Yeah, maybe the military can teach the swat teams how to shoot. What was the shot to hit ratio in vietnam ? 52,000 shots fired per 1 hit ?

    But that was vietnam so through practice our military must have improved right ? Well I guess improved if you count 250,000 shots fired for every insurgent killed in iraq as an improvement. http://news.independent.co.uk/world/americas/article314944.ece

    But hey, tell us again oh great military guy how our swat can't shoot.

    Lets not knock the swat guys when the people in your own house are not doing so hot either.

    Nobody likes urban cqb, everybody wants to be able to go home.
  6. Evenglischatiest

    Evenglischatiest Monkey+++

    What, exactly, is the point of bashing the military in this thread? No one else said a word about the military. But since you brought it up, the numbers you give are very shaky, at best. They include all small arms rounds fired by the US military, anywhere on earth, for all purposes. The overwhelming majority of that is used in training. And don't forget the difference that automatic weapons make in ammunition totals. Every one of the thousands of 4,000 RPM miniguns will fire more rounds in a single training session than the entire LAPD uses in a year, including training. If you believe that 250,000 to one number, feel free to stand in front of an infantry charge any time you'd like. By those numbers, that should be one of the safest places on earth.

    Ogm said that the cops he knows can't shoot. I've also known cops who can't shoot. (and some who can) Clearly the cops in this raid need more time on the range. And just as clearly, they haven't been properly trained in the use of weapons in populated areas. They're lucky they didn't kill anyone.

    One man, surprised, with little to no training, fired twice, and hit two cops. Who knows how many cops, fired who knows how many rounds, and didn't hit a thing. And this with small children in the house. They used a level of force that's entirely unjustifiable, and clearly illegal, even if they'd been in the right house. And they used that force recklessly. If they can't hit their intended targets, they need to leave their guns at the station.

    Perhaps a novel idea like knocking on the door could get the job done, without bullets flying randomly around 3 year olds.
  7. MbRodge

    MbRodge Monkey+++

    It pisses me off every time I hear a story like this. Why was SWAT called to invade a house without a clear threat being present? How were they serving a warrant with oath or affirmation supporting it if there wasn't a threat in the house to begin with? WTF is going on with cops and our freedoms these days?
  8. Blackjack

    Blackjack Monkey+++

    Amen, Brother!
  9. hartage

    hartage Monkey+++

    I don't disagree with you. I just couldn't let the "cops can't shoot" flavor of it go unaddressed. I personaly have seen some officers at the events that well, can't shoot. But I have also seen others that are pretty darn good.
  10. hartage

    hartage Monkey+++

    I imagine it's some sort of department policy. As long as it is a "drug house" or an armed person of any type it could be 90yo grandma they will respond with swat as department policy.

    Is it right ? maybe is it right all the time ? no. But it is a bureaucracy and sometimes good sense is not part of the equation.
  11. Tango3

    Tango3 Aimless wanderer

    in defense of the gang who couldn't shoot straight who are always at a disadvantage because they are funneling through a choke point the homeowner may have had concealment if not out right cover and just has to direct his fire into the advancing stack .
    And a lot of troops were found to be spraying and praying,.hence the 3round burst settings.
    And then there's the military tactic of supressive fire. a bozo no-no when you you are responsible for every bullet in a civilian environment. so stick your numbers .its two different worlds
    burueacratic screwup or not;they are endangering many lives with lousy inteligence. but a couple of throw aways and what the heck ex-granny was a meth dealer and she had a had agun!
  12. MbRodge

    MbRodge Monkey+++

    What I don't understand is the warrant aspect of the thing:

    "It was found out that this particular address was not part of that long-term investigation," police spokesman Sgt. Jesse Garcia III told KSTP-TV on Sunday.

    The Constitution (everyone remembers that right?) says that a warrant will be issued only when there is probable cause supported by oath or affirmation. It also says that the warrant will list the particular place to be searched and the persons or things that are to be seized. Soooo....how do you have sworn testimony on this guys house? How do you KNOW this guy at this address is guilty enough to get a warrant to search his house and arrest him....then find out you've got the wrong address and the wrong guy? It sounds like some judge was allowing them to search the house and hoping that they would find enough evidence to convict. That isn't the way the warrant proccess is supposed to work! I know you all know this, but you seem to be the only people who understand my anger over things like this. I tried to talk about it with some coworkers and I got the "what's the big deal?" attitude that drives me crazy and I needed to vent a little bit. Thanks for listening.
  13. Tango3

    Tango3 Aimless wanderer

    because a warrant comes from a sworn affidavit such as:" U.C.31(a vetted reliable source) stated on 31march 2009 the basement of 31adams street, Omaha Nebraska ,houses a narcotics lab actively processing injectable heroine, a schedule3 narcotic. source also states " hes' seen mr.alonso""pistol whip" an individual with a 9mm handgun(30 August 2008)and that mr. Alonso has been seen carryings this pistol in his waistband on several occasions).M.r alonso is to be considered armed and dangerous.

    in a separate confidential file : uc31's street name is huggy bear,a twice convicted felon looking at real time over small bust.

    A better affidavit would have multiple cooroborating sources and physical evidence.Add:
    (UC16, a vetted reliable source purchased 3 1g bags of a white powdery substance, directly from mir. Alonso on15may2008, all 3 packages tested positive with B&D field test kits for opiates, further lab analysis is pending ( case #D70-17-12345)

    AsI've said many times here it's officer integrity.Not just anyone can pin on the badge .lying to a judge (swearing a false affidavit)is punishable.
  14. Seacowboys

    Seacowboys Senior Member Founding Member

    I have seen numerous thread where we complain about the abuses of our constabulary but not one has suggested any way of dealing with the problem. We need to form a response plan and initiate. This cannot be allowed to continue. I have some suggestions about where to begin:
    1. Write TV programming interests and threaten to boycott sponsors if they do not remove shows such as "Cops" that glorify the abuses and make them easier to accept.
    2. Write letters to editors about these abuses and bring it to the front and center.
    3. Write Congressmen and demand that strict controls be placed on the use of "Dynamic Entry" procedure and "No-knock" warrents.
    4. Demand that PD be held liable for any infractions, however small.
    5. Insist on "Ride-along"watch-dog programs and organize citizen possees to make sure they are used.
    We have a right to control our servants and put them back into the role they are paid (by our hard earned dollars) to do!
  15. Tango3

    Tango3 Aimless wanderer

    its "do-able" we've seen alot of changes in the high speed chase policies over the last few years.
  16. AlterEgo

    AlterEgo Monkey+++

    All the above and more were done down here in a city that had a big problem with this. The whole force was fired and the sheriff's took over. A year later when all calmed down it was back to the same, as many were rehired.

    It seems that you need to be a illegal now. "Citizens of the State" are under Maritime Law, whereas a illegal isn't (till he gets "citizenship" he is protected by the connie).
  17. Blackjack

    Blackjack Monkey+++

    We all know exactly how you feel..... dare to quote the constitution and people look at you like you're a nutjob. Something's backward there, eh?

    Wholeheartedly agree, and you've got good ideas, although as long as this corrupt and broken system we have remains in place, I fear that they aren't "fixes" so much as just minor or temporary obstacles for the departments to work around.

    This small town I live in was hiring 1 additional officer last year, I applied for the job (having some 15 years of varied security and military experience, and even some college for law enforcement), but they considered me too old, at 38. So they hired a 22 year old kid with no experience. And he'll soon be a "Shield", "Cops" wannabe, I'm sure.

    I think cops should get paid a lot more money, and have the stipulation that if you abuse your power, you'll get double the penalty.... no leniency.
  18. AlterEgo

    AlterEgo Monkey+++

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