yet another blow to privacy?

Discussion in 'Freedom and Liberty' started by Tango3, Jan 5, 2007.


  1. Tango3

    Tango3 Aimless wanderer

    Watching msnbc (kieth olberman) just said "The president has given himself the right to open and read your mail" next on msnbc. Something new?
    Authority to open the mail of any american without a warrant (postal accountability and power act)..signed 20 december '06.
    http://groups.google.com/group/Arch...57dc6770c52/1f882e8545f3eda8#1f882e8545f3eda8

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    Bush says feds can open mail without warrant

    By James Gordon Meek
    New York Daily News - Thursday, January 4, 2007 - 12:00 AM

    WASHINGTON — President Bush quietly has claimed sweeping new powers to open Americans' mail without a judge's warrant.

    Bush asserted the new authority Dec. 20 after signing legislation that overhauls some postal regulations. He then issued a "signing statement" that declared his right to open mail under emergency conditions, contrary to existing law and contradicting the bill he had just signed, according to experts who have reviewed it.

    A White House spokeswoman disputed claims that the move gives Bush any new powers, saying the Constitution allows such searches.

    Still, the move, one year after The New York Times' disclosure of a secret program that allowed warrantless monitoring of Americans' phone calls and e-mail, caught Capitol Hill by surprise.
    "Despite the president's statement that he may be able to circumvent a basic privacy protection, the new postal law continues to prohibit the government from snooping into people's mail without a warrant," said Rep. Henry Waxman, D-Calif., the incoming House Government Reform Committee chairman, who co-sponsored the bill.

    Experts said the new powers could be easily abused and used to vacuum up large amounts of mail.
    "The [Bush] signing statement claims authority to open domestic mail without a warrant, and that would be new and quite alarming," said Kate Martin, director of the Center for National Security Studies in Washington.
    "You have to be concerned," a senior U.S. official agreed. "It takes executive-branch authority beyond anything we've ever known."

    A top Senate Intelligence Committee aide promised a review of Bush's move.
    "It's something we're going to look into," the aide said.

    Most of the Postal Accountability and Enhancement Act deals with mundane changes. But the legislation also explicitly reinforces protections of first-class mail from searches without a court's approval.
    Yet, in his statement, Bush said he will "construe" an exception, "which provides for opening of an item of a class of mail otherwise sealed against inspection in a manner consistent ... with the need to conduct searches in exigent circumstances."
    Bush cited as examples the need to "protect human life and safety against hazardous materials and the need for physical searches specifically authorized by law for foreign intelligence collection."

    White House spokeswoman Emily Lawrimore denied Bush was claiming new authority.
    "In certain circumstances — such as with the proverbial 'ticking bomb' — the Constitution does not require warrants for reasonable searches," she said.
    Bush, however, cited "exigent circumstances" that could refer to an imminent danger or a long-standing state of emergency.
    Critics noted the administration could obtain a warrant quickly from a court or a Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court judge, and the Postal Service could block delivery.
    But the Bush White House appears to be taking no chances, national-security experts agreed.
    Martin said Bush is "using the same legal reasoning" as he did with warrantless eavesdropping.
    http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/cgi-bin/PrintStory.pl?document_id=20...


    The Americans have all the watches - Osama has all the Time




    </td></tr></tbody></table>And I had just about calmed down about all of this...
     
  2. Blackjack

    Blackjack Monkey+++

    I'm continually amazed at his lack of regard for the very document he is sworn to uphold and protect.
     
  3. Seacowboys

    Seacowboys Senior Member Founding Member

    I'm continually amazed at the way the american people keep allowing this to happen as if it doesn't really matter. Seven out of ten people will adimently defend the subjugation of our liberties as being necessary in todays world. And that same seven cannot understand why I get so angry when they allow the desolution of "my" liberty for "their" precieved security. There is no need to quote Franklin here again. The problem , as I see it, is that for the past fifty years, the american people have been conditioned to believe that our country is a democracy, rather than a Republic. In a democracy, fifty-one percent of the people can deny forty-nine percent of their rights.
    We have been led to believe that the constitution is a gift from our government to us, as in "The Constitution of the United States"...here's the big problem; it's not a gift from our government to us; it is the governments terms of employment from us. It is the "Constitution FOR the United States" and it is the demand from us that the government recognize our rights or we would throw their sorry ass out the door just like we did merry ole king George.
     
  4. Blackjack

    Blackjack Monkey+++


    And THAT is exactly the thing nobody seems to understand, and their not being taught either. They think the Bill of Rights is something our government granted us out of their good will.


    Face it, everybody is too comfortable to fight. Nothing will happen in this country to put the government back in it's place until the majority of the people lose their everyday comforts. Even our poor people (Me for instance) live better than royalty did a hundred years ago.
     
  5. TailorMadeHell

    TailorMadeHell Lurking Shadow Creature

    Are you speaking about Glorious Leader? He has our best interests at heart doncha know.

    It is right that only when the sheep have the noose firmly placed around their necks will they awaken to find that this isn't what they wished for. Just goes to show that we are on a runaway train and there is little hope of stopping it until we reach the end.

    Then with a lot of wailing and should-haves, we'll strike the wall and be smashed into a new reality where freedom is dead and we have a new dictator. I'm just so glad there are so many pansies out there that know what is good for me and they are working every day to make me 'safer' by coming up with these laws that restrict My movement while allowing those that would harm me to walk free throughout the world.

    We are safe aren't we?
     
  6. GoatLady

    GoatLady Lock and load

    Wake up and smell the mint jelly people!!!! Thankfull I went through the 12 step sheep program.

    "Hi My name is GoatLady, I'm a former sheep." (but now I have horns LOL)
     
  7. Tango3

    Tango3 Aimless wanderer

    [applaud][flag][fnny]Yeah, but "we" are "the crazy ones"...wait until we get our national id cards ( in the guise of a national drivers license '08...( strictly voluntary , dontcha' know) ... the easily accesed personal id number infrasructure is the key, then "they"wil be able to run a google search and it'll find databases of the toll system or personal rfid files. British currency has rfid embedded already. If they draw ATM cash out, the bills are associated to the individual..(another bite in the war on crime).Welcome goatlady( cool avatar) you're preaching to the choir here.
     
  8. TailorMadeHell

    TailorMadeHell Lurking Shadow Creature

    Okay GL, I must have missed your rebuttal point, unless it points that at one point and time we were all sheep? While this is true, we are now the awakened. We were shown the way and now we are learning. However that is without saying the countless times that any of us have tried to so enlighten the sheep around us only to have it thrown back at us in that 'It can't happen here' or 'You're just paranoid'.

    At one point and time we were all children, then we grew up. We are of a 'minority' group, if you will. We know what is taking place and while we have brought a few with us, there are teeming masses that even though they hear the message are choosing to stay asleep.

    I currently reside in Sheepville or Liberal Land as I put it. This place teems with them like lemmings. Blindly asleep they rush to hand over their identities and freedoms so they can fit into the 'crowd'. The people I talk to, I am trying to open their eyes to the reality of the situation. One is hopeless, one is semi-awake though he lacks motivation and two of the others are moving to Pennsylvania in about a year.

    I will be here for a little while until I can get a transfer to come through, if at all possible, then I'm out of here. I like to help people, though as it is said, 'Some people can't be helped'.

    I don't know if this is a rebuttal on your statement, though it is me expanding on my thoughts further.

    It is good to try and wake them, though at a point usually before they label you a 'survivalist', 'nutcase', 'idiot' or 'paranoid', it is best to leave them alone.

    Just some of my thoughts.
     
  9. GoatLady

    GoatLady Lock and load

    hallleLUJA Brutha! [applaud]
     
  10. GoatLady

    GoatLady Lock and load

    And that right there was my point exactly! Some people would rather just [​IMG]and I don't want to waist my time. Still think it's pretty dumb though. [​IMG]
     
  11. Tango3

    Tango3 Aimless wanderer

    GL you've got the best smilies I've seen in a lomg time...:)
    "I went through a bit of panic shortly after joining, found there are plenty of folks out there with their own agenda (marketting plan)I like to pick on Alex jones, he makes fiery sweeping assumptions,from bits of truth. He is more than willing to hold the door open for you or anybody else to follow, only it leads to the DVD closet...

    There's no question "gloriousleader" has taken extrordinary powers for himself and always includes denying judicial debate. I can't understand why our congress happily smiles and plays along with this crap...

    However: I've since limited the "yeah-buts" and "what -ifs" to what I can physically touch in my immediate environment; Otherwise Any number of options quickly become overwhelming. I can empower myself by adding food/ water, backup power, firearms and do my best to shephard mine and any others of the "tribe"...
    I hesitate getting into too much sheeple debate precisely because no one else seems to be sensitive to these changes. If it prevents one more attack....its ok with them.
     
  12. ghrit

    ghrit Ambulatory anachronism Administrator Founding Member

    The trouble with that approach is that it is a negative proof. "See? It works!!" Just about as good as saying that eating spinach prevents floating off the surface of the earth. Thus far, there have been exactly zero positive proofs that I known about, and I've been looking for them. It is NOT enough for me to be told that "If we tell you how it works, then it won't work any longer." Show me something, please, before you take any more of my freedoms from me, so that I can believe it works. Just now, I don't.[banghead]
    So I'll stop eating spinach and see if I can fly.
     
  13. melbo

    melbo Hunter Gatherer Administrator Founding Member

    Nice thread.
    We can talk about this every day while every day something else erodes the remaining freedoms we have left. How far is too far and when does it become self defense?
     
  14. TailorMadeHell

    TailorMadeHell Lurking Shadow Creature

    I do what I can though I am not going to mire my mind down in bogs of depression while thinking of overwhelming concepts. I see what is coming. I am preparing for what is coming. I will stand with those that are not blinded by the shiny propaganda. Each and every day we move closer to the final outcome. There will be a game for all or nothing. Will things be straightened out or will we be swept under the rug of an oppressive regime?

    Glorious Leader is either
    a) as dumb as a rock and is being used as a puppet

    b) a dumb kid that is dumb as a rock and only wants to finish what his father started so that his father will be proud of him

    c) fully knowledgeable about what he is doing and wishes to 'stay the course' on the treason train

    or

    d) dumb as a rock who needs approval from dear old dad and is fully concious of every step being treasonous and doesn't care one bit about it

    Those are your choices. Maybe I should brush up on the Civil War era to learn some stuff. It will come down like this. Those who take action will either be heroes or scape goats. I'm hoping for the heroes thing. I don't like goat. Haha.

    When it comes time, there will be those who remain idiots and then there will be those that finally see something was wrong and help out. It's a mixed up crazy situation that we are in and there is no easy way to fix the problem. I will prepare myself for any type of 'disaster' that comes my way and when the call goes out, I will be ready.

    I will keep trying to awaken some, though I am tiring of stupidity and those who hold on to ignorance. Some are too comfy in their worlds to even want to challenge anything that may flicker across their minds as a question. When the time comes there will be a line drawn and actions to follow.

    I can't see the future so I can't know for sure what will happen. The only thing I can do is hope for the best, plan for the worst and wish to know the difference. Haha.
     
  15. Tango3

    Tango3 Aimless wanderer

    ...Whatever's coming I don't think one day they'll just start marching joe sixpack into the stadium for re-education and assignment...even if they did people not rounded up would still justify it..( perhaps "joe" had it coming,glad they didn't come for me....) Just like the Argentina post, nobody is gonna go on cnn and announce" today the proverbial SHTF. america is a free fire zone, there is no law")

    Super markets will just start having trouble keeping shelves full, Inflation will be insane, people will still worry about going to work on time. Babies wil be born people will still have sex, Camo clad homeland security "officers" will be checking id's at the local supermarket coming and going Plainclothes homelandsecurity officers will move into neighborhoods and be seen at local hangouts/playgrounds playing pickup basketball ,or at the local tavern looking awkward in khaki pants and polo shirts building their source networks and gathering a weekly intel report ... and every one will know who these new folks are no matter how hard they try to blend in.there will be rumored reports of resistance on shortwave, not on network media.

    instead of crips and bloods your gonna know about that "constitutionalist separatist" gang in tulsa.

    "constitutionalists" or libertarians will be legally designated criminals and /or terrorists. and that threat "Legally" removed..You're gonna see people who lose family members into the system being the focal points for organizing action. Face if it "they " were stupid enough to fire everyone up with some obvious atrocity and people stood up it would be easy to raise suitable numbers.


    I am beginning to think gun confiscation will be the issue that sends this country into a shooting civilwar. Globalists need to disarm us.They've said as much. That won't take place without plans a,b and c, nailed down. Massive overwhelming force; It can't even hint at getting out of control or the whole thing tips. Maybe they'll start with the .50 guys, then AK's[flag]
    Then oneday some leathery, independant 70 year old western rancher will get pissed, grab his gonads and think "70,I've had a good run " he'll send his beloved wife of 50 yearsto her sisters, 'call the atf confiscation office:"c'mon you bastards come get my remington 700, I'll leave the gate and porch door unlocked for ya." Maybe the first agent on the entry team will smell rotten eggs for a split second before he sees the familiar shape of the rancher's heirloom zippo. Perhapse the smell won't quite make it to the cerebellum..[devilfu]
     
  16. TailorMadeHell

    TailorMadeHell Lurking Shadow Creature

    Little by little steps are being taken to make it as easy a takeover as they can get. It will not be a big rush job, though it is moving quickly now. Most of the work has already been done.

    I have no doubts that they are testing the waters here first. You all have seen the weapons that we cannot own unless we are carriers of CCRs or FFLs. Even then they will watch you closely. The illegals are getting special treatment instead of being deported. Morals are being tossed out of the window in order to be more PC or 'open minded'. Education is taking a back seat.

    This is the proving grounds. If they are successful here, then they think it will be easy done elsewhere. Take some time and look at what is going on here and you will see that it is not a conspiracy theory, rather it is open facts that people are not wanting to come to terms with.

    I have not been here long and I have seen vast changes in the way things are done. I just hope it doesn't spread to other parts of the US before it is stamped out by those that want to be free.

    We need a shakeup in the political arena, ousting the crooked ones who have so far led us down a dark path. Then we need to do away with all this PC garbage. We need to close down the borders and the only people who get in are young and need education or coming in legally through the right process instead of jumping fences and swimming across rivers.

    People want to come to America because we are the best country in the world, though how long before we are just another country run by a heavy handed regime? I see far too much and I hate what I see. It does not make me happy any little bit to look at how far we have gone down the crapper. Pretty soon we will be just as bad as those we fight against.

    It is easy to be overwhelmed if you think too much about it and I do, so I live in a state of being overwhelmed while trying to figure what must be done. I have no easy answers, though I have plenty of ideas. And we all know that ideas are not allowed. It's bad.
     
  17. Tango3

    Tango3 Aimless wanderer

    I guess it comes down to a personal decision to take action, before you go comitting any "criminal acts"; have you written your/any congresman? Written any letters to the editor of the local paper?( I haven't, I'm not sure enough of what I'm seeing to convince my wife, she's one of the smartest people Ive ever met, if I can't get it past her, my arguments not ready for primetime......

    Then there's operational security concerns( paranoia?)... I wanna be left in the game...not sidelined in the first 5minutes. I swore to defend the constitution once ( 3or 4 times actually) I still believe in the righteousness of it.
     
  18. TailorMadeHell

    TailorMadeHell Lurking Shadow Creature

    How many signatures does it take for a motion to even make it up for consideration? Write your congress critters though if it is just you doing the writing, you will be lost in the shuffle. You have to find all of the individuals in your area that are thinking the same thing and you must all commit to nothing short of badgering them with letters. Then the next step is?

    Ever try talking to a brick wall? Much akin to the climate out here. Words fall on deaf ears. There is the Constitution and there is the constitution. One is a document that is based on the wishes of a people for how their country should be run and the other is a patchwork of regs that are modified every year to slowly cut freedoms and liberties.

    I back the original Constitution all the way. I don't like this new thing they are creating. It is the politicians that upset me with their slicing and dicing of the parts they don't like.
     
  19. Blackjack

    Blackjack Monkey+++

    I know this sounds pessimistic and even fatalist maybe, but I honestly don't believe there is anything that one person, or even a small group of people can do at this point.

    We are led to believe that individuals can make a difference in this society by becoming active politically and by writing their congressman and encouraging others to do so. But it's not real. It's quite literally a waste of time and energy.

    Anyone short of a modern William Wallace couldn't touch the powers that be, and unfortunately, I'm not him. And besides, Wallace in this modern environment would be very quickly imprisoned and discredited.

    I hate to say it, but things have gone too far, they're too big, and it's too late. The best you can do is "hunker down" and survive. Try to spread reality to those who will listen, and hope that eventually, things will begin to change.
     
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