You need a 3d printer and other specialized tools to build a gun?

Discussion in 'Firearms' started by oil pan 4, Aug 4, 2018.


  1. oil pan 4

    oil pan 4 Monkey+++

    The left is freaking out about 3d printed plastic guns.
    They think it takes a 3d printer and or some other sophisticated level of tooling to manufacture a gun.

    That's funny because my dad takes about making "zip guns" when he was a kid in the 1950s. I'm pretty sure 3d printers weren't around then and I don't think he and his friends had access to a machine shop or gun smith's tools.
    Hell mikhail kalashnikov used a rail yard machine shop to build his AK-47 prototypes.

    They are also freaking out about 3d printed plastic magazines.
    You can't 3d print the springs. Mostly plastic magazines have been around for at least 20 years.

    Let's explore improvised fire arms. With out 3d printing or advanced or specific gun smiting tools.

    BUT before that the legal aspects.
    It's legal in most states to build your own fire arm as long as its in compliance with the National fire arms act.

    I seem to recall reading something about pistols made with less than 2.5 ounces of metal are illegal to sell, I'm going to assume that means manufacturer for your self too, so probably not a good idea to go there.

    Selling a home made fire arm is definitely illegal.

    Just remember this [patr] followed by 5 to 10 years of this [do-it] if you break the law. Remember you are probably the one on bottom and if you do happen to be the biggest and baddest on the block I for one don't see much appeal to being on top.
     
  2. DarkLight

    DarkLight I self identify as a Blackhawk Attack Helicopter! Site Supporter

    While I understand the point I think you are making, slight correction on one of your points. You can, in fact, print 100% of the magazine for an AR-15 (and variant), including the "spring" with "plastic". There are also 3d metal printers (no, not CNC machines, but actual layering printers) that "bake" the finished product to make a single piece of metal.

    However, with a "plastic" 3d printer...
    • Barrel - No
    • Upper Receiver - Maybe...depends on the material but probably not
    • Recoil Spring - No
    • BCG - No
    • Barrel Nut - No
    • Forward Assist - No
    • Gas Impingement mechanism - Oh hell no
    • LPK - Actually, yes for about 85% of the parts
    • Roll pins, etc. - Nope
    There are in the neighborhood of 100 distinct parts in an AR platform rifle, and a number of them cannot be made with a plastic 3d printer due to the stresses on those parts.

    Your point is valid, however, about not needing to go this route to make a gun of one sort or another. The thread that I think triggered this one lists links to dozens of firearms "instructions" that use hardware store tools and even in some cases hardware store hardware and pipes (in one instance). The VC were said to have made AK-47 lowers out of shovel blades, so yes, the 3d printer and/or specialized tools are not required to make a "gun". Just like a gun isn't required to commit mass murder. Europe has had a rash of multiple victim van attacks.

    The tool isn't the problem. The act and the actor are the problem.
     
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  3. hot diggity

    hot diggity Monkey+++ Site Supporter++ Site Supporter+++

    I've learned to expect important facts to be either missed, or intentionally neglected in any news report about guns. If it doesn't fit the agenda, inflame passion, and sound sensational, (and lately, "racist") it won't get reported.

    He's not losing any sleep over 3D printers taking away business.
    Pakastani gunsmith.
     
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  4. Ura-Ki

    Ura-Ki Grudge Monkey

    I posted in another thread, but it fits here as well! There is currently no printing technology that would make a functioning gun barrel or other highly stressed parts like a Bolt or carrier! Springs, maybe, but any life would be short. Out side a metal printer, you would still need to machine a barrel and have a means to proof test it!
    I have a small 3-D printer that I use constantly, and honestly have found no real need to print gun parts, though it could print things like the stocks or hand guards, maybe even bottom components, but there is still a need for metal parts. And tbis dosnt adress the heat that running a fire arm generates! All the fuss about the print files is a joke, sure, there could be handy info in those files, but o ly a fool would believe you could make a fully functional firearm with a simple printer squirting plastic!
     
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  5. duane

    duane Monkey+++

    The left is all about control and it will not let a little thing like facts get in the way. In real life, home made guns are the least of the worries we face. It has been proven in real life that IED's, van's, fire bombs, pipe bombs, stolen or "liberated" weapons, weapons supplied by "friendly" countries, etc are a much larger threat. The best source of weapons for most of the partisan forces in WW2 was the enemy soldiers. The Liberator crude pistol was designed with one thought in mind, it could be used in a very controlled situation to kill 1 enemy soldier and thus obtain military grade weapons. In real life, the more the state militarizes the police that are local, the better the grade of weapons available to anyone that wishes to resist the state. The local police station used to contain at most a couple pistols, a shotgun, and a good supply of coffee and donuts, now some of the SWAT teams are as well equipped as most WW2 special forces units. Are all the members 100 % loyal to the state, is the equipment 100 % safely stored, is there no chance of losing it in transit to the "crime" scene, will no weapons come in with the next 100 kilogram shipment of crack, etc, would seem to be a bigger problem then printed guns. In real life an armed man, soldier, police, whatever, probably is faced with a much more dependable weapon in the arms of a "friendly" woman. A Ma duece is of little use if you are in bed with a cooperative member of whatever sex you may desire and are both distracted and unarmed.
     
  6. Lancer

    Lancer TANSTAFL! Site Supporter+++

    The entire brouhaha is nothing more than the nasty, screaming little monkeys that comprise the left and their apologists, have found another pile of turds to hurl at whomever they disagree with. Nothing more. Unfortunately our cretinous political class think the shrieking means something, so they contort themselves in pretzels to keep the monkeys quiet.

    Personally I like my little 3-axis bench top cinci-milicron CNC machine. Under $2k at an auction, and the controller is a simple x86 device sending commands via a serial interface.Any decent laptop works, and allows use of current DFX file formats.
    Oh: and there are quite literally thousands of component files on the net to build ARs, AK, and other cool "devices" such as cans. The only part I can't effectively make are the barrels.
    But I'm lazy, so mostly I make replacement parts for the family's tractors and mowers.
    In a true shtf it could be invaluable. Or just put a target on me. either/or.
     
  7. Airtime

    Airtime Monkey+++

    If you are thinking an AR, absolutely. But there are plans for plastic single shot .380 pistols that have a plastic barrel. Only good for a dozen shots or less, but none the less they are almost all plastic save some pins, springs and firing pin.
     
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  8. DarkLight

    DarkLight I self identify as a Blackhawk Attack Helicopter! Site Supporter

    Ditto for the original 'Liberator' which was .22 and the only piece that was metal (and readily available) was the firing pin. Think it's a nail but I'd have to pull up the instructions (assuming I downloaded them at one time...[peep]).
     
  9. Zimmy

    Zimmy Wait, I'm not ready! Site Supporter++

    I can see these 3D plastic printers making some very dangerous single use booby traps, toe-poppers, and other caltrops.
     
  10. Lancer

    Lancer TANSTAFL! Site Supporter+++

    If you want truly nasty booby traps. look through the collections from WW II or the Viet Nam "conflict"...
    I particularly like the 30 cal rifle round, set on a nail in a piece of pipe. The pipe is short enough to allow the tip of the projectile to protrude somewhat. Buried along trails these were hit or miss, but would eventually get someone when they stepped on it. The path of the bullet was typically through the foot and then into the upper abdomen or chest of the recipient.
    The object of these sort of traps is not to kill. If the victim dies on the spot, you call for the graves registration people to collect the body, and continue the mission, one man down. A severe wound on the other hand requires medic time and supplies, possibly time from other members of the squad, possibly the resources of two others to transport the casualty during the remainder of the mission.
     
  11. AndyinEverson

    AndyinEverson Black Powder Monkey

    I would say no that you do not a 3D printer or specialized tools to build or make a gun...

    The single shot pistol in the picture is one that I made at home , using spare parts from my shop.
    The barrel is a old muzzleloading rifle barrel a "take off" from a different build.... .54 caliber...
    The stock was hand carved from a chunk of maple...
    The lock also a "take off" from a different build , was originally a flint lock but I converted it to percussion...
    The hammer actually might be "old" as in an antique...It seems I may have built a pistol around a antique hammer....Crazy....
    The only new part I bought was the trigger guard ...and that could have been made...but I was just too damn lazy to do so....:D
    All of the above was made with tools commonly found at homes around the country.

    Yes , you need the skill to make it come together....but special tools...nope.
    Folks have been making firearms for centuries with basically the same tools...so what's next ...going to outlaw saws , hammers , drills and such...?
    Andy
    DSC06041.
     
    Last edited: Aug 7, 2018
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  12. Guns and Ammo magazine ran an article in the '70s about scratch built firearms in Afghanistan during (and before) the British occupation. And the Russian occupation. They used railroad rail for steel and built Martini rifles and no1mkIII Enfields. Hand cranked lathes. Charcoal forges. Nitrate film shreds for propellant.
     
  13. Oddcaliber

    Oddcaliber Monkey+

    I've watched quite a few videos on Forgotten Weapons about these guns. They come from all over the place. Very interesting to watch.
     
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