Zero Tolerance for Self Defense ?

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by BigO01, Dec 20, 2007.


  1. BigO01

    BigO01 Monkey+++ Founding Member

    Wife came home today and told me the most bizarre story of these Zero Tolerances Policies run amok I have ever heard .

    Her coworkers 12 YO son was suspended for a week because he defended himself from a Truly dangerous threat of a deadly attack .

    The kid was on lunch with some friends when one of the school bullies come up and starts picking on one of his friends who was smaller than the bully "Typical kid crap".

    Well the kid tells the bully several times to leave the little one alone and the group he is in even tried moving away from the Punk , yet he kept following and picking on the little one .

    After getting fed up apparently he tells this punk again to leave the kid alone at which point the bully pulls out a sharpened pencil and puts it to his throat .

    Bad move , the kid smacked his arm away with the pencil and proceeded to quite literally beat the living shit out of the AHOLE .

    Busted his lip , blackened one eye , bruised some ribs , pretty much gave him a family sized can of whoopazzz .

    The morons suspend the bully for only 2 weeks and the good kid for a week also .

    I told he to tell her coworker to call the local news and a Attorney as these stupid things now adays sometimes wind up on a kids permanent record .

    After all the punk was using the pencil as a deadly weapon hell I would even call the cops and press charges .
     
  2. MbRodge

    MbRodge Monkey+++

    Me too. Sounds like clear-cut self defense.
     
  3. monkeyman

    monkeyman Monkey+++ Moderator Emeritus Founding Member

    The schools have zero tolerance for self defense, it is not allowed. They want to be sure the kids are indoctrinated to the same mentalities that allowed 9-11 to happen, 'if you are attacked yu are to submit and notify someone in authority as soon as possible' at which point you may still be punished for being 'involved' in a violent encounter. I know MO Titmouses son when in school in the city was suspended a couple of times after being jumped for being the wrong color once and for the sake of robbing him the other time and he had tried to follow the rules and take the beatings then go to the teachers, he still got heavier penalties than the kids attacking him and when he defended himself he was still punished but at least didnt deal with the beatings. We used my moms adress and got him out of those schools soon after, all the schools seem to have these same rules now, its jsut a question of how many thugs they have to deal with on them and how stupidly/severly the rules are pushed.
     
  4. ColtCarbine

    ColtCarbine Monkey+++ Founding Member

    These type of policies have been in place in our schools since before 9/11. My oldest son who has just turned 18 certainly had his share of encounters at school. Some he just walked away from and others he fought back. One thing I always told my son regardless of the school's policy if you get in a fight and you didn't start it, I'll stand behind you 100% in defending yourself. However, if you were the bully don't expect my blessing and better hope you don't encounter the adversary that'll kick your *ss.
     
  5. dukenukum

    dukenukum Monkey+++

    this is why I hate public schools these "educators " have the brains of turnips
    I graduated in 1983 and we had this same garbage .
    my advice get a lawyer sue the school for not stopping the bullying then sue the bully and his family keep suing until they are broke broke broke .
    I had to go this route when the girl I was friends with had her wheel chair kicked over by the football captain and a bunch of us invited his attention to the utter uncouthness of the act by means of a beating .
     
  6. Seawolf1090

    Seawolf1090 Adventure Riding Monkey Founding Member

    It's too bad they do this nonsense. The local kids called me "the bully breaker" in high school - I dropped one bully off the second floor outside hallway onto a sticky bush. I back-elbowed two (was only aiming for one, got a 'two-fer'!) off the back of the football bleachers - backed up to a hill.

    They never bothered me or my friends after that. Hehehe.

    Coach saw the last - he didn't interfere. He once decked a kid that tried to punch him - BIG mistake!

    It was truly a different world back then. Being a BIG kid myself came in mighty handy too.
     
  7. hartage

    hartage Monkey+++

    Heh I used a different method to acheive the same result. I'm average in height and back in 8th grade skinny so I got picked on. All that picked on me were bigger and stronger so pushing them is not an option. I tried to ignore them till they touched or bumped into me. Then they get 100% of what I had both fists one on the side of the head the other right on the nose. They key was one strike after another and don't stop. The end result usually is bruises on the side of their head and a very bloody lip/nose. It only took two of those for me to be left alone. Funny though how the school administrators punished ME the victim rather than the bully that started it. (both times I was suspended) Is it my fault the idiot that started it couldn't finish it ?
     
  8. monkeyman

    monkeyman Monkey+++ Moderator Emeritus Founding Member

    It all boils down to that there needs to be judgment used ased on the specific case. A LOT of times I could well understand punishing all involved. Quite often one kid look at the other funny the other says something, a name is called, etc, etc then one shoves and the other shoves back then it comes to blows, fine in that situation both need the lesson that theres a price to pay and if it aint worth it then suck it up and walk away before it escelates rather than standing there escelating. Then you have the cases like this where the kid tries to walk away and is attacked anyway and defending himself should not be punished. The teachers and administrators need to just get back to useing some good judgment and if their insurance companies dont like it (teachers have to have insurance similar to malpractice ins. now to protect them from lawsuits for hurting Johnies feelings and such now too) then give all that money to an insurer who still lets them do their job and put the stupid ones out of business.
     
  9. Seawolf1090

    Seawolf1090 Adventure Riding Monkey Founding Member

    The specter of "Zero Tolerance" rears it's ugly head elsewhere too.
    The kid who gets suspended for having 'drugs' in school - because he gives a friend an aspirin.
    The kid who gets suspended because he draws a picture of a gun.
    The kid who gets into trouble for daring to think and question, instead of soaking up the pablum the 'teachers' dispense as fact.

    I pity the kids growing up in today's "enlightened" world.
     
  10. Blackjack

    Blackjack Monkey+++

    We should have "zero tolerance" for zero tolerance rules, laws, etc.

    There should never be such a thing. It's ridiculous to think there isn't some possible exception to a rule.
     
  11. ghrit

    ghrit Ambulatory anachronism Administrator Founding Member

    One more time, the judging portion of judgment has been removed, it is all by regulation these days. All (of course) in the name of uniformity for all, no matter the reality of the situation. [yukface]
     
  12. hartage

    hartage Monkey+++

    I'm starting to wonder about the mental powers of the people "teaching" our kids.
     
  13. Blackjack

    Blackjack Monkey+++


    100% right... and it's all a result of corporatism imo.
     
  14. Seawolf1090

    Seawolf1090 Adventure Riding Monkey Founding Member

    Ghrit hit it - it's a way for the administration to not have to 'think' about the individual case. They can just use the big rubber stamp - "Zero Tolerance"! No excuses! Back to indoc . . . uh . . . class! taser1
     
  15. monkeyman

    monkeyman Monkey+++ Moderator Emeritus Founding Member

    From my understanding in speaking to some folks working in the field, a big part of it is rootd in the latigious nature of our society. The teachers/faculty now HAVE to carry liability insurance to cover them against law suits if Johny scrapes his knee or Tommy has low self esteem or what ever. The insurance companies crunched the numbers and decided that establishing 'zero tolerance' policies was the best way to minimize the law suits since the rules were clearly stated in advance alonge with the punishment for their violations so its an uphill battle to sue for carrying out these rules/punishments and they give them firm footing to claim they did everything they could to prevent misbehavior such as violence and drug use, they even discourage legitament use of these things after all.
     
  16. kckndrgn

    kckndrgn Moderator Moderator Founding Member

    Yes, the school systems have been going down the "zero-tol" way for some time now. I remember one "fight" in school that I was in. I was the one doing the punching, but the other guy got the suspension :lol:. Bascially our school had zero tolerance, but the teacher that broke up the "fight" asked what happened. When our stories matched she sent him to the principles office and me back to class. Now days the teacher wouldn't bother hearing what happened, just rubber stamp both kids as trouble makers and suspend them both.
     
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