I see a lot of threads ( not just this forum ) on govt going door to door to take your guns or food, or whatever, or how many bullets they are buying up, or stuff about the UN sending in 'peace keeping' troops, blah, blah, blah. Bottom line, I don't think any of that will happen, at least on any large scale. There simply isn't the manpower if folks resist, and the other problem is exactly what happened in Katrina......the local cops pretty much abandoned their posts to go take care of their own families, so they had to "import" cops/NG from outside the affected area. Should a national or world calamity hit, my guess it they will have trouble getting enough guardsmen to show up to justify turning the lights on in the armory, much less fielding an effective force. I'd also imagine even in the regular armed forces that is going to be a major problem. Jet planes and 'black' helicopters don't run without a WHOLE LOT of ground support. (I used to be a part of that....I know it takes 4 hours of maintenance for each 1 hour of flying time in a helicopter) People's natural inclination is to take care of their own first, and their 'job' second. Just human nature. So, what does justify some worry and reflection ? In my humble opinion, it's Bubba. Bubba is the guy that lives next door, or down the road...even if down the road is 10 miles from you. Bubba can be several kinds of guys. He can be a guy that is making it just fine right now, lives in a fairly nice house, seems like a regular, friendly kinda guy, or he can be a slob living in a ramshackle place, barely getting by with a hit/miss job and food stamps......or something between. The one thing Bubba's have in common is they don't look ahead. Bubba spends his disposable income on toys, vacations, excessive consumption of alcohol/weed/etc, or any number of things. Bubba has never given much thought to the fact things might change, and doesn't have more than a few meals in his house. Bubba also has the feeling ( and he may or may not every express it ) that if things got tough, the govt would and SHOULD help him, and he wouldn't have a lick of problem with the govt taking from you to provide for him and his ( heck, whole lot of them are already living that life ).....all in the name of "fair". And Bubba is the kind of guy that IF the govt/Red Cross/church fails to provide, and he thinks you have stuff and he doesn't, YOU should provide for him and his......in the name of being "fair". He also has a rusty 30-30 in the closet and half a box of shells left from that time he went deer hunting with the boys ( and decided that was too much like work, plus there was no ESPN out there ), and when Bubba's brood get's to hollering they are hungry, he isn't above coming to shoot one of your cows/goats/etc, or slip up at night and steal a few chickens ( hey....you've got plenty, and won't miss a couple ), or slip in your garden at night, or finally, confront you with that 30-30, or worse, simply ambush you from the treeline, then take what he wants. I've got a couple of "Bubba's" that I already know of. One of them, the oldest boy was telling my neighbor one day ( who told me ) that "daddy has a whole lot of guns, and if times get rough, he's going to Andy's and take". This particular Bubba is a slob that lives in a ramshackle house, works as little as he can, runs his mouth as much as he can, and may simply BE all mouth. But he is also ex-marine, and I do know he has weapons. Another one of my Bubba's invited another neighbor to "join his group"......a group that has nothing BUT weapons, and whose stated survival plan is to simply TAKE. Again, this MAY well be just talk....but often even bluster has some basis in truth. One answer, of course, it OPSEC....sure, that helps....but if you have a field with cattle, and a chicken house, and solar panels, the Bubba's KNOWS you got stuff....he doesn't need to inventory your pantry or basement or gun safe to confirm it. If you've lived in the same area for a long time, people KNOW who is worth a crap and who isn't. People KNOW stuff about you that you don't even suspect they know......so don't simply say OPSEC like you're Rawles living out on some "un-named river" well away from everybody and their cousin......I bet even Rawles' local Bubba's know more about him and his place than he would like......because there is: The electric guy, the propane guy, the guy that brings gravel for you driveway ( and says "wow, never would have guessed THIS was up this holler" ), the UPS guy, the FEDEX guy, the mailman, the paper guy, material delivery guys, and so on and so on......lots and lots of NON-GOVT type folks know where you are and have some idea what you have. So you can OPSEC all you want.....and it will help....but the Bubba's have a 'radar' for finding folks that have stuff. Some folks say "Yeah, that's one reason I'm bugging out". Some survival stories have the BO (Buggers Out) frantically loading up their BOV (bug out vehicle) and nearly driving over the neighborhood Bubba(s) on the way down the street, fleeing to their BOL (bug out location). Problem with BO is: 1. When do you finally decide it's time to BO. 2. HOW do you afford a remote place on an "un-named river" ( ahahahahaa ), complete with all the infrastructure, tools, supplies, etc, you need. 3. How do you know the Bubba up at the BOL isn't already scoping you out ? No, bugging out for most people isn't an option. And most BO are simply going to be REFUGEES, again, IMHO. Read David Crawford's (Halffast) short story entitled "The Bug Out" if you want to get an idea of what happens with the BO's meet the Bubba's of the world....and how a whole lot of BO's are gonna end up. http://www.thehighroad.org/archive/...l&s=88bff5dd562c513dedf67314f7e2341f& THUS, my question, at long last, is WHAT do you plan to do about Bubba ? If it's just you, wife and maybe a few kids, HOW do you plan to defend against what, again, IMHO, is going to be your most likely security issue if times get really rough ? And what are you doing now in the way of prep for Bubba ? I've got some thoughts, and preps, and maybe "preventive measures", but I'd sure like to hear other folks thoughts on this issue, if you have thought about it.....or had nightmares about it.
I have given this some thought, even written a book or two about it - only I didn't call Bubba, Bubba, I called him/them looters and brigands. Running away (ie Bugging out) as you noted really is a last resort, although moving to find better circumstances a la the Grapes of Wrath might become the new 'normal' in really bad times. I can see the most common problem as an extension of what we see today - so-called property crime. Theft, break-ins and throw in the new National sport in Mexico, kidnapping. As Ferfal has noted on his blog, living in the country is no proof against thugs, they will just drive out to your place to rob, and maybe, kill you. I guess that is why having friends and family nearby is important - they can help.
A few weeks ago I read a book called The Jakarta Pandemic by Steven Konkoly, and I think it's relevant to your question. The problems faced by the main character in this story are right along the lines of what you're talking about. The main character doesn't bug out, he bugs in. He has a family. And he lives in a subdivision, with neighbors of various levels of preparedness, and with various "plans" for weathering the storm. Then come the refugees, some of them peaceful but not all of them. Essentially, it's a story about the Bubbas - identifying them, OPSEC in their presence (and just as important, intel on them) and ultimately dealing with them as necessary. I wish I could say that the book had offered an answer as to how one should deal with the Bubbas - but this was not a "Mad Max" story of guns and gangs and explosions and all that Hollywood sh!t in a PAW. Rather, this story was realistic, and explored the challenges faced by a well-prepared but otherwise normal guy, who could easily be any one of us. I would say that the moral of the story is "don't ever leave anything to chance when it comes to the safety of your loved ones," or maybe "fight on your own terms" but that's just 2 of the things I took from it - you might view it very differently. With the book and in life, I think that each of us really needs to come to our own conclusions, especially if we are to know that we are doing what is right, in any situation. Maybe I should have made this a book review...
Well, about Bubba. Yes , we all have them , even the people that don't think they have a bubba lurking in the background. There is no way to ever truly identify all of them, but can pick out a few. My friends around here also have a couple picked out. Yes, I also worry about bubba coming to take my solar, food , water and whatever. But, being old, served in the military back in the mid 60's, and of course being old, I feel I have less to lose then a younger type family. Experience has taught me , that nobody lives forever. What does that mean to me ? It means , although you may come to "take", you will really have to work for it. I will not be an easy target, and by no means afraid to exchange less then friendly hellos shall we say. I would like to add that I could hope and pray that it doesn't come to that, but Andy, I am also afraid it will. There are a lot of bubba's out there as you have so nicely described, but I think most of us are aware of them and willing to fix what ail's them in the first place. I also believe that most of them, don't mind poping someone else's direction, but when the pop's are coming at them at twice or three times the speed of sound, won't stay around long to see what the outcome will be. There are many many ways to slow down bubba, and many more ways to "trap" them as they attempt to come in. I don't think bubba will even thing about coming to visit in the day light, but more likely come to visit in darkness. Bubba afterall, is generally lazy and a coward at heart. Anyway, just my two cents worth.
1) How bad is the disaster ? 2) How bad is "Bubba" ? 3) How many "Bubbas" are there ? 4) Does "Bubba" have a family ? And what composes his family ? I do not rule out "paying a visit some night" first.
I live very close to a national guard base. My house shakes every weekend. Our dam broke a few years ago, local police were on hand and doing their job, but yet the national guard came rolling thru with their trucks, guns, etc. anyway. While I personally know a lot of Bubba's, the swift response of the national guard did surprise me, especially when we had to fight to get back into our home even though we were not flooded, had every right to be there, and could not get anywhere else (both exits to town under water). While I appreciate the job they did getting a bridge up to rescue those entirely cut off by the water, it gave me cold chills how quickly they were on the scene despite local law enforcement having the situation under control....I have to agree with 2 crows, in my experience, the nightly visit is not out of the realm of possibilities. as a smart man I know would say, YMMV
This is the hardest part of being a prepper for me. What to do about bubba's and others... Deep down I want to be a good man and take care of those in need, even if it is bubba. I waiver in this often, and when I do I am told a story. My father-in-law tells me a story his about when his grandmother asked him one day: "William, what are you going to do when someone comes knocking on your door and they are hungry. But its not just them, they are with their wives or children. Then you look at them and see that they have dark circles under their eyes, they are gaunt, fluids flowing form their nose and mouths. This isn't just a tired and worn down family, they are sick. Are you going to open your door? Are you going to take food off of your families plate to feed these people, these strangers? Will you risk infection for yours because someone has arbitrarily chosen your door to come to?" William said, "I don't know grandma, how can anyone know until they are in that situation?" "Some people say its our ability to reason that sets us humans apart from the animals William. But those people have never suffered, never been through the great depression. It is whether we have the strength to show compassion even when everything tells us to turn the other way, close the door on them. You feed them, comfort them, it's the right thing to do. However, no one said a compassionate man need be a fool. Once they are in your care you never let them out of your sight. The moment they step out of line, you take care of it!" I feel there will always be a situation that will arise that puts your family in jeopardy and you won't be able to help anymore. But the question I still wrestle with is this. When is that time to stop helping? Is it when they knock on your door or, do you help to the point you you have to knocking on one too?
When it comes down to them or us, you will have to make a very hard decision, and make it fast. It goes like this., take a deep breath, take careful note of where you need to place that bumble bee , let your air out and say hello there ! There may not be a second chance should you waiver.
Prepare for bad times. Keep your family safe. Keep your friends safe. You, your family and your friends will make up a group that protects each other. Just remember, numbers will bring down even the toughest giant. You can take care and try your best, though in the end it may not be good enough. It adds to stress if you worry about everything. Plan ahead to how you will react to a threat and deal with it as it comes, though have backups in case you get overrun. Bubbas, welfare vampires, MZBs, Smurfs and all the rest may try to take what you worked hard for. That is in their nature. Your nature is to try and protect it. How far are you willing to go? We all know what the end result may be in a Us vs. Them routine. "Do not go gentle into that good night..." You have to question yourself and draw the line. Will you stand knowing it may be your last act, or will you hand them the keys to the kingdom?
Yeah, I read that book about a year ago, and actually interviewed Steve for a radio show I was doing over on another site. That is one scenario for what Bubba might be like in a subdivision type environment. Good read, by the way, for those of you that haven't read it. Available on electronic formats.
Dear Bubba and Bubbett, Move along !!! I'm not in the saving business,You'll need to speak to the power's above... Your woman look's 3/4 worn out and your kid's are ugly... Nothing here for ya !!! Have a nice day...
Unless you got stuff that will move earth, a Cat SD7, a tractor trailer, or an IH 7088, you are gonna be in for a tough time getting around our area. Our town has limited roads in and out so closing them down to limit traffic flow for security or other reasons is quite easy. We also get frequent practice with it in the FD. Excellent areas to observe from and many log/farm trails allows for easy mobility of local assets.
I'm hoping to still have another few years to prep before tshtf. I'm relatively new to "prepping" (at least, in a serious manner), and will be the first to admit that I still have a long way to go before I'm going to be comfortable with my status. However, one of the things I'm taking into account with my preparations is the ability to help my neighbors. Not necessarily by giving them handouts (though that will likely be part of it), but by helping with seeds to help with a community garden, info on drying and stocking foodstuffs, etc. That's the carrot, offered up as incentive for us to all work together. In that way, I hope to build a little community goodwill that will offset the one or two Bubbas in the area. As was stated earlier, Bubba is usually looking for easy pickings, and a united group will hopefully be less inviting than a lone wolf holed up in his home. Of course, if the carrot doesn't work, I plan to keep a few "sticks" on hand, as well. AAMOF, my wife has finally reached the point to where she actually called our regular "stick" practice fun. Yep, she actually used the word FUN, when just a few short months ago she was truly frightened at the thought of simply holding a pistol. I'm a lucky man. She doesn't know it yet, but I already have her Christmas present picked out.
Ahhh, "the Bubbas" I've got them up and down my road and it is a real and serious concern for me. The lodgistics to deal with every Bubba situation that will probably come my way is unigue and difficult. One factor not mentioned is the weather in your region and how the bubbas will react. When a collapse happens in this country and things and scenarios become so desperate the local bubbas start raiding I will suffer no fools.
I was in Trinidad building a barge. We were moored off an area called "Sea-lots" , an urban ghetto basically owned by Terry Hogan a large Trinidaddyo, for lack of a better word, "Warlord", with gold teeth and enough gold jewelry to live in a fine house above Port of Spain. He home-steaded Sea-lots and built most of the squalid houses there from scavenged lumber and pieces from the many derelict ships in the harbor. He lived in a Mad-Max fortress built from steel ship structures with a wall around it and armed guards. There was one community water facet that all came to each day to draw water for sanitation and cooking, a couple of small stores that sold crackers, beer, cigarettes, marijuana, and a local drink made from star anise and the bark of a tree called mauby. Everyone that resides in Sealots pays Terry Hogan rent, if they work, they pay him a portion of their earnings. Hogan provided "security" for our operations there and the labor force necessary to complete the work we were doing. The police do not go into Sealots unless in a large assault force armed with automatic weapons, and only then, long enough to apprehend someone to scapegoat for whatever complaint they are answering. Many times, I had people come to me begging for food, wanting work just because they were hungry. My resources were minimal but I always tried to find something for them, even if it were only a sandwich. Exchange was 7.5 TT to a dollar so even a few TT might feed an entire family for a couple of days but if they worked, the Hogan would collect his "Cowards" money, even in the face of his serfs starving. Note my use of the word "Serf"; this was a totally feudal community. I see this as an eventuality here. There is more to this story that I would like to tell.
