.22 has more stopping power than a .45?

Discussion in 'General Survival and Preparedness' started by C.T.Horner, Aug 16, 2013.

  1. C.T.Horner

    C.T.Horner Monkey

    The answer is surprisingly true, and false at the same time. It is false because a .45 has more kinetic energy than a .22, and it is true because statistically a .45 has an incapacitation rate of 51% with one shot to the torso. And the .22 has 60% incapacitation rate with a one shot to the torso. Based on a ten year study in shootings and the calibers used.

    How can this be? First off like all statistics the outcome can very by how the input was collected and sorted. For example the people shooting the .22,s could be better marksmen than the people with the .45’s. these results were collect as they were reported in the real world. Not in a vacuum of a lab. But the results are very telling none the less.

    My take is no mater what caliber you are shot with, when you get shot, half the time you will decide to call it quits. Whether the wound is fatal or not.

    Now we couple this information with the fact that most confrontations are ended with the brandishing of a weapon, I don’t have the stats on this but I will challenge it is between ninety and ninety five percent, when a weapon is drawn to stop aggression, and never fired. If you have facts to dispute this claim please share them.

    Back to my point if we assume that 90% (totally my made up number) of the time you draw your weapon in self defense you don’t have to fire it and you add the fact that half the time any caliber will do, we are left with a 2.5% window where caliber makes a difference. Perhaps a vital life and death difference I will concede that.

    97.5% chance that a .22 will get the job done is good enough for me.

  2. Pax Mentis

    Pax Mentis Philosopher King |RIP 11-4-2017

    A .22 or a .45 to a vital organ will most likely kill you. Unfortunately, a .22 (even to the heart) is likely to give you opponent enough time to shoot you back (or even beat you to death) before it does it's work. The final outcome for the guy you shoot is the same, but it might not be for you.

    JMO (based on a pretty fair amount of experience), YMMV
  3. Silversnake

    Silversnake Silverback

  4. techsar

    techsar Monkey+++

    The 2.5% chance that my family is killed because I chose a weapon not suited for self defense is not good enough for me.

    ETA: If you are drawing your weapon, then not using it, why did you draw in the first place?
    Smitty, JABECmfg, Dawg23 and 3 others like this.
  5. JLRhiner

    JLRhiner Stranger in the Modern World

    These are the things that try men's souls.

    WAY too many variables in statements like that. As was stated above, if and when you get around to needing to use a defensive handgun, your going to want it to work RIGHT NOW! How many of those shot with a .22 ended up dead later? While no round is the mythical "one shot stop", a bigger hole is always better. At least in my humble opinion.
  6. BTPost

    BTPost Stumpy Old Fart,Deadman Walking, Snow Monkey Moderator

    I would venture a comment on this issue, and say, it is Distance, more than Caliber, that determines the outcome between Dead, or Not Dead. It wouldn't matter if the projectile was a .22 or a .50 if you get smacked at 10 ft, as some reasonable Velocity. That said, I will use a 1 Oz 12 Ga Shotgun Slug as my Projectile of choice, anywhere inside 50 Yds. YMMV......
    wnn, Mountainman, kellory and 6 others like this.
  7. JLRhiner

    JLRhiner Stranger in the Modern World

    Ah yes, one must always remember the purpose of a handgun is to fight your way to a proper rifle (or shotgun).
  8. C.T.Horner

    C.T.Horner Monkey

    Winner winner chicken dinner. The 12 gage scored 80% stopping power. Hence it is the most effective defensive round. However my point is anything is better than nothing.
    AmericanRedoubt1776 likes this.
  9. STANGF150

    STANGF150 Knowledge Seeker

    I'll stick to my .45 & my 3 shot Failure To Stop Drill of two to the chest one to the head. If whatever is still living after that, I'll throw the gun at it, scream like a lil girl, & run like my arse is on fire!
  10. C.T.Horner

    C.T.Horner Monkey

    “ETA: If you are drawing your weapon, then not using it, why did you draw in the first place? “

    In the real world where these statistics were gathered, most firearms related confrontations were ended without firing a single round.
    Just watch an episode of cops and count the number of guns drawn and the perp surrenders without a fight armed or unarmed. This carries on into civilian confrontations, burglar is held at gun point until the cops arrive, or flees far more than burglar shot.
    It is just a fact of life, most people surrender rather than engage in a gun fight.
  11. BTPost

    BTPost Stumpy Old Fart,Deadman Walking, Snow Monkey Moderator

    This is known as the "Bluff" Senerio..... The trick here, is to figure out if the Opponent is Bluffing, or not BEFORE he blows you away..... He pulls His, and You pull Yours. Then you have to decide, if He is Bluffing, before he can decide if you are Bluffing. The guy that usually wins, is the one that made that decision, long before, when he first decided that Carrying a Firearm, was a "Good Idea".... Just Observing..... YMMV.....
  12. STANGF150

    STANGF150 Knowledge Seeker

    Bruce, if he pulls his he better not blink cuz if he drawing, he dieing
    kellory and tulianr like this.
  13. Minuteman

    Minuteman Chaplain Moderator Founding Member

    In any of the "what's better" discussions I always stick to the answer "Whatever you have" and or "whatever you will use". I have a good friend who is a former USMC scout sniper and retired Secret Service. Highly trained to say the least.

    Him and I shared a passion for the 1911 and the .308 but when discussing what he armed his family with he shocked me when he said a couple of Ruger 10-22's. What?

    He went on to explain his reasoning. If he is home of course he would grab his 870 or his .308 and have his 1911. But his wife is not a shooter, not comfortable with a shotgun, and or the recoil of a high powered rifle or handgun. Not to mention his daughter. So what to arm them with. They both can shoot the .22 with out flinching, and fairly accurately. They are not "afraid" of them.

    Their instructions were to unload as fast as they could at an enemy and reload. His reasoning is that if you have dozens of rounds coming your way, your head is down. And you don't care what round you get shot with. The biggest, baddest guy will run from a swarm of angry wasps.

    Now close quarters is a bit different, he was in the process of training them on a 9mm for home defense. But this scenario is for a single or group attacking the house. Take cover and unleash as much lead as fast as you can. That would stop most attacks, it may not kill the attackers but it will stop their advance. And my friend reasoned that he would be the one to take the sighted, killing shots. And it would be much easier at targets that had their heads down from a hail of "angry wasps".

    Can't say I fault his logic.

    Myself I carry a .45 and would go to a 12 Ga. or my .308. But I am comfortable with those weapons. Someone who is not as comfortable or skilled with them would be better off with a smaller (even down to a .22) weapon that they can fire confidently.

    When my daughter worked at a convenience store she had a shotgun under the counter. But I told her, what if you can't get to it? So I bought her a little .32 with a pocket clip. She could wear it in her pocket all night without any inconvenience. it was ready to hand at all times. I told her if you need to use it point it at their face or their neck and unload it, then get the shotgun. And if they are too close to you push it into their throat or their eye and unload it.
    Thank God she never had to use it but I would bet that any thug who threatened her would have regretted it.
    So I believe, IMHO, that "mouse" guns are highly underrated. Like the military quote "You don't fight a war with the weapons you want, you fight it with the weapons you have". Just my 2 cents
  14. C.T.Horner

    C.T.Horner Monkey

    I wanted to start this debate because the general consensus is this caliber or that caliber is the best. They may be right or they may be wrong, the fact is before their choice is proven, the odds are far greater they will choke to death on a hotdog before they will be proven right. For those who don’t eat hotdogs, the odds are far greater you will die of malpractice from your doctor. For those who don’t go to the doctor, the odds are fare greater you will………I give up. I hope you get my point. Any caliber gun is better than nothing if you feel comfortable carrying a .22 it will statistically serve you 97.5% of the time. So if that’s all you can afford or are comfortable shooting, I will venture to say it’s OK!
    Minuteman likes this.
  15. Minuteman

    Minuteman Chaplain Moderator Founding Member

    Just a couple instances

    OSS and CIA assassins regularly used the .22 pocket pistol. A single round to the back of the head would suffice. The reason? A large caliber will certainly "blow their head off" and guarantee a kill but a .22 only has enough force to enter the skull but not exit. It simply ricochets around inside making scrambled eggs of their brains.

    Recently a man with a concealed carry permit in Florida stopped a bank robber with an NAA .22 revolver. His carry weapon of choice. (umm OK. To each their own)He shot the guy in the throat and while it did not kill the guy it caused him to flee and he was found at a local hospital where he staggered in weak from loss of blood.
    kellory, tacmotusn, tulianr and 3 others like this.
  16. BTPost

    BTPost Stumpy Old Fart,Deadman Walking, Snow Monkey Moderator

    The Old Saying.... "There is NO ONE, so BIG, you can't sneak up behind them, with a Lead Pipe." still goes.......
    Hanzo, Sapper John, kellory and 2 others like this.
  17. Minuteman

    Minuteman Chaplain Moderator Founding Member

    "What's the best weapon you can have in a fight?"

    "The one in your hand!"
    Hanzo, JABECmfg, kellory and 2 others like this.
  18. C.T.Horner

    C.T.Horner Monkey

    Trick question, the one in your head!
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  19. Minuteman

    Minuteman Chaplain Moderator Founding Member

    That would be the deadliest weapon. Your mind.
    kellory likes this.
  20. C.T.Horner

    C.T.Horner Monkey

    Well prolly not my mind but I get your point. LOL
    kellory and Minuteman like this.
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