4th Gen Warfare

Discussion in 'General Survival and Preparedness' started by deMolay, Dec 28, 2018.


  1. deMolay

    deMolay Monkey+

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  2. Grandpa Patch

    Grandpa Patch Monkey+

    Nice article. A lot of points made about "4GW". If I read between the lines correctly, then some of us could also be considered to 'be at war', as we have goals of survival and defense of family that we are willing to fight for.
     
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  3. duane

    duane Monkey+++

    Since 4GW is a conflict between an organized government and an organized resistance that's very power is based on its difuse nature, the government may rightly decide in their mind that you are a member or a "supporter" of the enemy forces, and at that point you are scr**** even if it is not true. In 4GW as historically practiced in places like Spain during the reconquest from the Moors, you ended up with inquisition and the belief that God will punish the guilty and reward the innocent. The one common factor in 4GW warfare is that to win you have to remove the water the fish swim in, ie , the support of the people, and so far killing and terror seem to be one of the most effective ways in the short run. In the case of the US, it would seem that the organized opposing force, the radical left, is as efficient in its operations as the state, and their goal of removing firearms, indoctrinating the youth, control of the media, voting blocks putting their people in the government, are effective tools used to create the water and take over the government. Once they do the danger to the individual is even worse. If he speaks out, he is danger from both sides. The government considers him a threat as he is a critic of its policies, which actually may be actions taken by the opposing forces, and the opposing forces consider him a threat as he does not toe the official line and is not a true believer. Looks like a rough time ahead and some recent examples, Libya,the Balkans,Iraq, etc, would seem to indicate that total chaos is as likely an outcome as any. Add nuclear war, economic chaos, emp, racial conflict, class conflict, biological war, and the list of possible scenarios is much greater than my ability to plan for. Keep your head down, do what you can and keep your faith in God, as it is a possibility that the situation will again let Him be the ultimate judge of your gilt or innocence.
     
    Last edited: Dec 28, 2018
  4. Bandit99

    Bandit99 Monkey+++ Site Supporter+

    I think the best example of what @duane is saying is what happened during WW2 in the Ukraine. First and foremost, that era truly showed what could be achieved by connecting the media to the hip of government, truly amazing. Gobbels had such complete control of the media that he would not only tell them what to print but what not to print and/or how much rhetoric and how forceful to make it. And, what is scary you can still see the EXACT same thing happening today so that should scare all of us.

    Secondly, the poor Ukrainians we're getting from each and every angle. Stalin feared and never trusted them so he allowed his partisans a complete free hand in the Ukraine - meaning - rape, pillage and plunder, seriously, the partisans forces were as feared by the locals as BOTH military forces, Soviet and German, which did exactly the same thing. Plus, a fourth set of combatants, the Ukrainian Nationalists, who wanted separation so they were running around also doing rape, pillage and plunder in the name of nationalism. The 100 year War also comes to mind where the civilian had a nothing but a lose-lose-lose-and-lose again situation...

    I read the "The Changing Face of War: Into the Fourth Generation" and it was a interesting article; however, in my opinion, the 4th Gen Warfare occurred in Vietnam where the highly mobile helicopter technology went through experimentation and became operating procedure: assaults, medivac, logistics, direct fire, etc. and as such we're facing the 5th Gen Warfare but this is simply my opinion and I can see the Colonel's argument and reasoning.

    The other point I would make is most of the fight is now carried either by Technology or Special Forces which has grown massively since Vietnam. I remember it exploded to a massive 25,000 in the late 1990's but having just performed a Google query it appears they grew to 75,000 as of 2014 which was a good 5 years ago so without doubt larger now... and these are the guys fighting the wars now much more than conventional forces. Even as far back as 2001/2 when I went into Af'stan it was these guys, running around the base (Bagram) in cut off jeans and T-shirts, long hair and beards on quads motorcycles and, frankly, drove the conventional forces officers insane for they had they own set of rules and answered only to their own officers. They also were the ones that guarded the prisoners at that time, strange but true. They had they own portion of the base and no one else had access without prior approval, officer or enlisted.

    My point is this is what we use to fight these 4G type terrorists and certainly try to kill them, before they can get to the west and all its protection, by using highly trained forces and technology such as drones so I think this is the wave of the future and we'll see more and more of it since Conventional warfare cannot defeat this type of enemy.

    Anyway...interesting article! But, I'm a sucker for anything military related. LOL!
     
    Last edited: Dec 28, 2018
  5. DKR

    DKR Raconteur of the first stripe

    (Fourth-generation warfare - Wikipedia)

    Fourth-generation warfare
    (4GW) is conflict characterized by a blurring of the lines between war and politics, combatants and civilians.

    The term was first used in 1989 by a team of United States analysts, including paleoconservative William S. Lind, to describe warfare's return to a decentralized form. In terms of generational modern warfare, the fourth generation signifies the nation states' loss of their near-monopoly on combat forces, returning to modes of conflict common in pre-modern times.

    The simplest definition includes any war in which one of the major participants is not a state but rather a violent non-state actor. Classical examples of this type of conflict, such as the slave uprising under Spartacus, predate the modern concept of warfare.

    Also-
    Generations of warfare - Wikipedia

    I think we are seeing the beginnings of 5th Gen warfare using
    "People bullets" Please allow me to expand on this -

    Just as Castro dumped out his prisons and sent these trash to the US
    (Mariel boatlift - Wikipedia - 125K+ Cubans arrived)
    this destroyed Jimmie Carter's chances for re-election.

    It wasn't a disaster for Fl as the majority of the Cubans had actual skills
    "This situation changed when it was discovered that the refugees included criminals and people from Cuba's mental hospitals. However, according to a Brookings Institution Study in 1980, the vast majority of Mariel refugees (technically Cuban-Haitian entrants, status pending) had blue-collar skills that matched perfectly with the labor force in Miami at that time."

    This could, in retrospect, be sen as the opening wave (or shot) of 5th Generation warfare.

    The previous wave of mass migration "Boat People" of Vietnam came in several waves. By most accounts, this migration was not politically motivated, that is, as a form of warfare against the US. Total Vietnamese population in the US is said to be about 217K,. a number that is open to question. Many in the first wave had usable skills and were quickly assimilated into the US. Second wave, economic refugees, did not fare as well, but still have assimilated.

    Now we are facing wave after wave of migrants heading to the US from central America. They number in the ten's of thousands - yearly. These mass movements, orchestrated by far-left/Communist organizations are operating openly in the US, funded by shadowy figures. The most obvious is George Soros - a man who has publicly stated more than once his goal is to destroy the US.

    The migrants showing up today have no modern skills, are illiterate in any language and have little to no education and are in poor health/diseased.

    Thus - 5th generation warfare - non-State players in a loose cotillion using the US law against itself - aided and abetted internally by any number of organizations and the mass media - all of whom seemingly wish to 'crash the system' to their personal benefit.
    If allowed to enter the US unrestricted, the entire US will look and vote, just like California in a very short time indeed.

    Canada is currently tearing itself apart at this same time, so offers no safe haven, should you be included to move on....

    I'd like to hear your take...
     
  6. Bandit99

    Bandit99 Monkey+++ Site Supporter+

    @DKR Interesting...sort of gives meaning to Nikita Khrushchev's, "We will destroy you from within..." and, unfortunately, it makes perfect sense. Furthermore, I think if one looks critically at countries that have had 'mass' immigration within the last decade, one would see they are no better off, in fact, the countries are much worse off due to "no modern skills, are illiterate in any language and have little to no education and are in poor health/diseased" and are simply a burden to the state - meaning - to the taxpayers.

    This whole idea of mass immigration is flawed. I am for immigration but a modernized immigration policy where immigrants have a good chance to make it here while giving something back to their adopted country as opposed to simply taking from it (which they haven't paid into). We need doctors, engineers, scientists, technicians and no longer can simply take "your tired, your poor, Your huddled masses..." because we're broke! It's that simple plus, most mass manufacturing and other production jobs have gone to other countries. It is time for some logic based thinking when it comes to immigration...
     
  7. Ura-Ki

    Ura-Ki Grampa Monkey

    Intresting look.
    On the immigration front, this is an amass of able bodied people to loosely form a standing army, basically cannon fodder. They are bodies to catch bullets, little else, same with the Muzzies, though with far more I'll intent! The mass moment of people is and always has been the precursor to a big war, and today's war fighting is a very Lopsided event. The main difference to a war fought here, the people will have access to much the same as the opposing side, but with the critical skill set to employ it more effectively. Then you have the larger military hardware that requires support and logistics, some will be used, but most sidelined! What we have here is in effect, asymmetrical warfare, same as we had against Japan at the end of WW2 and all through modern conflicts, from Korea to Vietnam and on to the Gulf and A'stan! This brings us back full circle to the issue of mass movement of bodies, gotta have that cannon fodder to broad cast live and in color on nightly T.V
    And innerwebs, got to drum up hate and discontent against the resistence!
    Best plan is to be an unknown, grey man, ghost, and make your choices as best you can to maintain that status! Be mobile, high speed, low drag, unpredictable, and stay off the radar as best you can! Do not get caught up in the fight, brace for the war!
     
  8. DKR

    DKR Raconteur of the first stripe

    The US of 1886 (when the SoL was dedicated) is a far cry from the packed, nay groaning, urban centers full of welfare types and little reason to exist in a post-modern industry world.

    The words "Send us your poor" were from a poem - This poem was written as a donation to an auction of art and literary works conducted by the "Art Loan Fund Exhibition in Aid of the Bartholdi Pedestal Fund for the Statue of Liberty" to raise money for the pedestal's construction. Lazarus's contribution was solicited by fundraiser William Maxwell Evarts.

    NOT a law - a 'donation' used as a fundraiser.....

    A tidbit
    "The New Colossus" poem was the first entry read at the exhibit's opening on November 2, 1883. It remained associated with the exhibit through a published catalog until the exhibit closed after the pedestal was fully funded in August 1885, - but was forgotten and played no role at the opening of the statue in 1886. It was, however, published in Joseph Pulitzer's New York World as well as The New York Times during this time period In 1901, Lazarus's friend Georgina Schuyler began an effort to memorialize Lazarus and her poem, which succeeded in 1903 when a plaque bearing the text of the poem was put on the inner wall of the pedestal of the Statue of Liberty.

    So it wasn't until 1903 the "sent us your poor" was even displayed on the SoL.

    Just as the "Wild West" is no longer with us, the 'great empty plains' of the US disappeared long ago....

    Time to get fussy with who gets in.
     
  9. Bandit99

    Bandit99 Monkey+++ Site Supporter+

    The last couple of years, I have become more and more paranoid and I think for good reason. I just cannot understand Germany's, and much of the rest of Europe, mindset of simply throwing open their borders and allowing anyone to come in. Many of those countries have now closed their borders to immigrants and/or are suffering from those ridiculous decisions. Yet, even with these examples, there are those in Congress that wish our borders to be non-existent and our immigration policy to be an 'open door' policy so - yeah, I'm paranoid.

    But, reference to 4Gen Warfare from the article, I would think that suicide bombers fit that description quite well. I also fear this becoming a very common occurrence in the near future here in the USA, unless we take precautionary measures now to stop it.
     
    Last edited: Dec 28, 2018
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  10. Grandpa Patch

    Grandpa Patch Monkey+

    Wow, too many smart Monkeys here!. You guys really have put in some great posts, and a lot to think about, while staying on topic with the OP. I think that might be a record for staying on topic. All the responses are great reads in and of themselves and in regards to the OP as well.

    I believe that I should never walk next door and tell my neighbor to clean up the 'dog poo' in his yard if I have 'dog poo' in my yard. I had better make sure that my stuff is done, before telling someone else to get their stuff taken care off of. Not that it is my business in the first place, but you get my point. The US has been sticking its nose into every corner of the world it can, while not taking care of 'its own backyard'. A good example is Operation Cyclone. This is not the first example in US history, nor the most recent but the Area of Operations (AO) touches on current issues overseas.

    Politics (which includes warfare) to create, maintain and assist in the transformation or operation of free capitalist democratic nations is not fine. The US military should not be used as a political tool. Use of the military should be like a football game...you are either playing offense and trying to take over something (score) or you are defending from someone 'scoring' against your country. So under this idea, the US would own/control many places around the world and US citizens could reside, work, go to school and enjoy their lives in that part of the world. Involving the military to 'score' and then handing the '6 points' back to the defender/loser makes absolutely no sense to me. And for the extra point those who were on the losing team would have two choices....become a citizen through proper legal channels like any other legal immigrant has or pack your bags and we will give you a free boat ride to the nearest available location. You can reside in this prisoner of war camp while you make your decision or are awaiting your turn on a boat. Oh, by the way, here is a shovel, pick, hoe. You can work on the chain gang and help clean up OUR STREETS to earn your room and board.

    I understand that we (the US) want to have friends and allies to stand with us against the communist, dictatorships and other oppressive government types who may become aggressive towards the US. Under the guise of helping allies, we have maintained a constant growth of our military presence around the world. However there is a line between helping an ally and 'sticking our noses in other people business'. The US creates strife in order to justify using the military for this, that and the other thing. We have been doing this for a long time and still have not learned from it. The hole just keeps getting deeper, while we expose our backside (borders) to everyone and anyone. How to we keep getting away with it? Sympathy.

    Sympathy is Americas 'Achilles' Heel'. Every bleeding heart goes out to TV commercials, so why would it not go out to every poor, down trodden and oppressed society and nation/state that shows up in the news? Just get one popular/semi-popular actor/actress to make some 'sad story' appeal via TV commercial and everyone opens their wallet. Free picture and updates on the child, animal or cause that you support with your donations will be sent to you for free. Ever notice that these children are foreign nationals? Ever notice that these oppressed people are foreign nationals? Of course you have, I am talking to the Monkeys here after all.

    So what does this have to do with 4GW? We are our own worst enemy. We bombed Japan back to the stone ages and then gave them back their country. We kept the North Koreans (and some of the Chinese) out of South Korea, we don't own Korea, but we have a huge military presence and expense there. We kicked the hell out of the Nazi's on many fronts, but we don't own any territory in Europe. YET, we allow these countries to purchase property, actual designated area of the ground, and build on it within the United States. AND WE can not own any of their property? Did I miss something in school? Is this the 'new math' that doesn't add up? We have been doing this for so long that our society has a false sense of security and trust in the organization called government.

    US society and sympathy has created its own monsters. The US Military Industrial Complex has created its own monsters as well. Between the expanding use of the military, in violation of Posse Comitatus Act (Legal Information Institute re: Posse Comitatus Act) and the ever growing Commiforia mentality of bending over and taking it up the ...., US citizens are becoming more and more a threat to the organization called 'government'. Regardless of which way you lean politically, regardless of which way you lean religiously, regardless of which way you lean regarding the political correctness of The Bugs Bunny and Road Runner Show the government is gaining ground and the sheeple are giving away their rights on just about every topic being discussed today. Only when something that touches their heart is threatened will they start to see what is going on. Owning too much ammo or having too many supplies stockpiled for your preparedness makes you a hoarder and could result in confiscation of your stores. The government is literally making extremely difficult to be self sufficient. You are easier to control, if you need the government for your room and board. This doesn't effect the people who vote for these type of issues, it effects those who vote against and don't want the government confiscating their hard worked plan of stores and supplies. Maybe we should put a limit on the numbers of 'exotic' cars or sports car exceeding a certain amount of money. Surely, someone who wastes their money on 20 different sports cars that cost $500,000 or more have a hoarding issue. Maybe the government should confiscate their cars and redistribute the wealth to a local school or old folks home.

    Maybe, just maybe, if we quit being so damn nice, helpful and happy to open our national wallet in the form of 'Foreign Aid' that some of these countries might just learn (the hard way) to stand up and be accounted for. Or the citizenry of that country can go under a more oppressive government/ruler and continue to whine to deaf ears. Not my country, not my problem. If, and I say if, that country's government/military becomes hostile/aggressive towards us, then we can play some football. BTW, the point after kick for 1 point is bull. I say we go, kick their faces in and then go for the two point conversion and hoist the Red, White and Blue!

    FWIW......
     
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  11. deMolay

    deMolay Monkey+

    Sun Tzu many ways to win a war without fighting
     
  12. deMolay

    deMolay Monkey+

    When the Iron Curtain, fell Communism went Global via the UN and Green Communism. Agenda 21 and Agenda 2030. Read up on Canadian Communist Maurice Strong, he was so good most never heard of him.
     
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  13. deMolay

    deMolay Monkey+

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  14. Cruisin Sloth

    Cruisin Sloth Special & Slow

    Agreed
    Sloth
     
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  15. Zimmy

    Zimmy Wait, I'm not ready!

    I'm currently reading Tequila Junction by H. John Poole. (2009)

    4GW is a focal point of the book.
     
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