A legal/moral dilemma

Discussion in 'General Survival and Preparedness' started by GrayGhost, Nov 4, 2017.

  1. GrayGhost

    GrayGhost Monkey++

    So, I had a discussion with my neighbor today. Retired, Vietnam vet, SS recipient...read 'limited income.' Talks turned to the shooting at the local wallyworld.

    He is a gun owner. He wants to be able to carry for self defense. But his limited budget does not allow for paying the fees necessary to obtain a CCW here in Colorado. Cost at this time is around ~$280. His dilemma is one that I'm sure alot of people face in this state, along with others around the country. Housing prices alone are out of control.

    Knowing that the 2a is a right, how far does that extend? Everyone has a right to protect themselves. But, does that right only extend to those who have the funds to pay to exercise that right? Colorado is an open-carry state, barring the city and county of Denver, along with a few other municipalities. So, it's possible to carry in some areas open, but that could also put a target on your back.

    Yes, adages abound about trials and caskets, but what is one to do? Just carry open where you can? Just say eff it and carry concealed anyway and hope for the best, knowing that you're broke and if caught, legal fees and such could ruin you and your family? Legal ramifications of using a firearm for self-defense without a CCW?

    Anyone care to offer some nuggets of wisdom? Do we have a lawyer in the house? Right is right, but legal is legal. What say you?
  2. snake6264

    snake6264 Combat flip flop douchebag

    Well like most things fee's are just tax by another name
  3. techsar

    techsar Monkey+++

    Right isn't always legal, and legal isn't always right...but the consequences are a bear either way. Perhaps he could look into a less expensive Ccl from a reciprocal state and maintain the legal aspect?

    Perhaps the sheriff would waive his fee? That would knock off up to $100.

    Not a lawyer by any stretch of the imagination...
    Last edited: Nov 4, 2017
  4. GrayGhost

    GrayGhost Monkey++

    Very well stated. However, at 77, not sure he has the inclination or wherewithal do this. Maybe there is a possible solution, but no right answer.

    It all just doesn't seem right. There needs to be a better way. Almost seems like a form of discrimination against poorer folk...for lack of a better term.
  5. ghrit

    ghrit Bad company Administrator Founding Member

    I would not be too surprised that the VFW and American Legion have some buttons that can be pushed.
  6. GrayGhost

    GrayGhost Monkey++

    I will mention that. However, that does little for the others, non-military, in the same predicament.

    I can say what I think is right, but it's not legal. I'd hate to think what would happen to my family being in that position, if caught in legal troubles, me locked up, and I'm the sole provider.

    Is it all shades of gray...maybe no solution at all?
  7. Dunerunner

    Dunerunner Brewery Monkey Moderator

    From my perspective, the 2A was written to afford everyone the Right to self defense, to defend the Nation and, if required; defend themselves from a tyrannical and overbearing government.

    The 2A has become more of a luxury of the privileged classes than a universal right of every citizen and, you are right @GrayGhost when you say that most if not all gun laws are discriminatory against the poor. That is a political tactic intended to make people dependent on government for their security.
  8. ghrit

    ghrit Bad company Administrator Founding Member

    I am not at all convinced that it is a deliberate tactic. It IS a natural consequence of liberal twisting of the law to suit their fears, and the less privileged take the worst of the hit.
  9. arleigh

    arleigh Goophy monkey

    If you were in that wall mart and the shooter was in your face, what would it cost you?
  10. OldDude49

    OldDude49 Just n old guy

    Was seeing adds for gettin a CCW via the net???

    something about a certain state, or states, allowed this?

    not sure where such would be acceptable?

    no idea how valid the adds were never checked em out...
    Gator 45/70 and UncleMorgan like this.
  11. T. Riley

    T. Riley Monkey+++ Site Supporter++

    Get a small weapon and a good concealed holster and carry if you want. I am 67 and have never been patted down and doubt I ever will. If you get caught plead the 2nd.
  12. GrayGhost

    GrayGhost Monkey++

    About $1 per round.
  13. techsar

    techsar Monkey+++

    Many of those ads are for Virginia permits...but you have to read the fine print. You still have to have local pd take fingerprints, for example. Even then, the permit may not be valid. In Louisiana, I may get an out of state permit from a state that doesn't recognize an LA permit... but am still required to have a LA permit to carry concealed in state, since that is my residence.
  14. azrancher

    azrancher Monkey +++

    I do not have a CCW, I understand that in AZ that it gives you "extra" 2A rights, I carry all the time, everywhere, but unlike many I do not flaunt it, typically in the summer I wear a short sleeve Hawaiian shirt, square cut worn outside my pants, it covers the holstered gun. Winter I wear a vest or jacket, again covered... I wear it all the time in the Post Office, and I've even seen a "biker dude" wear his in the PO exposed, no problem.
    Better to be judged by 12 than carried by 6.

  15. GrayGhost

    GrayGhost Monkey++

    Small=defensive=reactionary. I'm a pro-active kinda guy. But point well taken.
    Gator 45/70, UncleMorgan and Ura-Ki like this.
  16. GrayGhost

    GrayGhost Monkey++

    Trust me, I get it. You're alive, meanwhile your family suffers if you're caught.
    Gator 45/70, UncleMorgan and Ura-Ki like this.
  17. Bandit99

    Bandit99 Monkey+++ Site Supporter+

    But, you do make a valid point, "But his limited budget does not allow for paying the fees necessary to obtain a CCW here in Colorado. Cost at this time is around ~$280." Is this not that same as a 'Poll Tax' or having to have property in order to vote (can't remember what that was called)? He is being denied his 2nd by the State until he pays $280. I think there is a case there but I know numerous cities do this. For example, New York and Chicago, but I also know that Washington DC laws were contested and they loss. But, how can a city or state deny you one of your constitutional rights by putting so many fees and regulations on it that it is impossible to excise that right and not be overruled by Federal Court and Constitution law - I don't know? I have to assume they have been contested at some point. Here in Idaho, we no longer need a permit to carry open or concealed...thank goodness.
  18. UncleMorgan

    UncleMorgan I eat vegetables. My friends are not vegetables.

    I will never forget the story of Suzanna Hupp, who left her gun in her car at the Luby's Cafeteria in Killeen, TX in 1991. She did so in order not to "break the law". That decision cost the lives of her parents, and probably several others.

    Just one citizen with a gun might have stopped the shooter in time to save many lives.

    Suzanna Hupp - Wikipedia

    The 2nd Amendment carries no restrictive language. It stands as an absolute: OUR right to keep and bear arms SHALL NOT be infringed.

    That means that every law that restricts the right to keep and bear arms is an unconstitutional law, and therefore null and void.


    Every such law--including the ones that refer to when and where a person may carry, and whether they may carry openly or in concealment.

    I carry when and where I choose, because it is lawful. It is always lawful.

    When (and if) I get arrested for carrying lawfully, I will fight for my rights, exactly as every person must who
    wishes to have rights.

    And in the mean time, if I need a handgun to lawfully defend my life, the lives of my family, or the life of a weaker third party, I will be prepared to do so.

    The decision I made many years ago is a decision that every person is free to make at any time--or not to, if they so choose.
  19. Ura-Ki

    Ura-Ki Grudge Monkey

    What county is your friend In? Depending on county the fees can vary widely. I am in Teller county, and the total fees were less then $160. I would speak to your sheriff's office and see what can be done!
  20. BTPost

    BTPost Stumpy Old Fart Snow Monkey Moderator

    We are a Constitutional Carry State, here in Alaska... Open or Concealed where ever it is legal... The State keeps the CCW Permit on the books for Reciprocity, with other States... AlaskaChick and I, both have Washinton non-Resident CCWs since when we travel we spend a lot of time in that State... Both our Carry Weapons are part of my FFL Inventory, and should ANY local or STATE LEO, remove either of them from our Possession, even for a Second, I will call the local ATF Office and report them Stolen, and INSIST that the LEO be Prosecuted for Violation of the Gun Control Act of 1968, as amended... There is absolutely NO PROVISION in that Law, for removal of Inventory, from our Possession, without a Coorisponding Entry into OUR FFL Bound Book, by ANYONE, Except a US Marshal, or ATF Agent with a Federal Warrant, PERIOD...
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