A Worthless Piece Of Paper?

Discussion in 'Bill of Rights' started by Yard Dart, Feb 12, 2015.

  1. Mountainman

    Mountainman Großes Mitglied Site Supporter+++

    @vonslob Not trying to bash you for your above posts, but you need to know that a large majority of Monkeys will not agree with what you wrote. You are entitled to your opinion just like I am and sometimes there are consequences.

    You should go back and read Brokor's post again and think about it. I tend to think more like Brokor and also believe that most law enforcement we have now is not needed and mainly in place to control the citizens, sorry I meant slaves.

    Back when Ruby Ridge and Waco happened the main source of information was the lamestream media and people were told how evil those people were and how they killed the poor .goob agents that were just trying to enforce the law. Bundy Ranch would have been another Waco if it was not for the internet. Well informed people that knew the truth about Waco did not let that happen again.
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  2. kellory

    kellory An unemployed Jester, is nobody's fool. Banned

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  3. vonslob

    vonslob Monkey++

    Mountainman i agree with everything that was in the orginal post made by yard dart and most of what broker had to say. I just do not believe the browns, weaver, and koresh are heros. Thank you for your explaination. I watched the bundy standoff and side with the bundys. What would be the bundys loss would have been Hairy (not missspelled) Reeds and his sons gain. Not to mention the chinese company that reeds son represents
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  4. kellory

    kellory An unemployed Jester, is nobody's fool. Banned

    ....but, but, but....the Bundys stood up to law enforcement! They defied a swat team, and refused to roll over just because they were shown a few badges!!:eek: how can that be???
  5. vonslob

    vonslob Monkey++

    The difference being the bundys never pointed a gun at a LEO and policed the crazys themselves
  6. kellory

    kellory An unemployed Jester, is nobody's fool. Banned

    Wrong. Bundy himself may not have, but a sniper mugged for the cameras while aimed at LEOs from the BLM.
  7. Brokor

    Brokor Live Free or Cry Moderator Site Supporter+++ Founding Member

    Hey, do you guys remember the air raids conducted by the Reno/Bush administration during the time of the Waco massacre? I remember one event in particular, with police and SWAT, even military coming in by helicopter to raid a party which was hosted on private land, with permission. They dropped tear gas, used attack dogs, arrested everybody they could find. It was all framed around testing the ability of highly specialized units to conduct arrests on large assemblies of people. At the time, it sent a clear message to the civilian population: if you assemble in large numbers for any reason, you WILL be arrested. Now we have to apply for permits to protest, and even then, the people are herded into "designated protest zones", often far away from the actual site being protested.

    Remember, the establishment uses military force and might to strike fear into the minds of a dissenting people. These criminals in government know full well how to shut down any protests long before they take root. Remember the WTO protests in 1999 (Seattle)? They used .Gov informants, anarchist dirtbags and undercover police and FBI to stir things up, granting them the ability to move in to settle the "violence".
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  8. kellory

    kellory An unemployed Jester, is nobody's fool. Banned

    And just WHY does the Bureau of Land Management need need a swat team or snipers at all? The exist to HELP RANCHERS MANAGE THE LAND better!!
    Tully Mars likes this.
  9. kellory

    kellory An unemployed Jester, is nobody's fool. Banned

    I remember that raid. It started with a noise complaint, I think.
  10. Seacowboys

    Seacowboys Senior Member Founding Member

    Not silencing anyone's opinion, nor criticizing it, just stating mine.
  11. kellory

    kellory An unemployed Jester, is nobody's fool. Banned

  12. kellory

    kellory An unemployed Jester, is nobody's fool. Banned

    By the way, Von, Americans are not the only ones here. We have Canadians, Brits, swedes, and more. (We even have a moose and a lawyer:eek:)And even the Americans are all over the world. Some do not have the Rights you enjoy, and revere.
  13. Tully Mars

    Tully Mars Metal weldin' monkey

  14. vonslob

    vonslob Monkey++

    No disrespect intended, that is not my way. Before the treaty of guadelupe hildago my family owned a large part of northern nm. My family had been openly against the US govt. and as a result lost most of their land holdings, so i know that the federal govt. overreach is well over a hundred years in the making. There were people openly defying the fed until well into the 1970's in tierra amarilla nm. So i get it. I will even say that the wrong side won the civil war setting aside the slavery issue. I understand the power of the sheriff , how tiny little police depts. have armored military vehicles, las lunas has one. I get it. I love reading history , and not the lies my history teacher . I come from a family that has instilled in me a heathly disrespect for the church and govt. i telling you guys i get it. But i stand by what i said earlier.

    Edit when i went back to school to finish my degree i used to get roasted by other students and my professors but they were on the other side.
    Last edited: Feb 14, 2015
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  15. Seacowboys

    Seacowboys Senior Member Founding Member

    I do not see Randy Weaver nor the Branch Davidians as "heroes" but rather as "Victims" of a too large and corrupt and frightened government intending to quell anyone that would stand up to them. I do not know that I would do anything different after they shot my dog, did not identify themselves as police, hell yes, I would return fire and hell no, I would not trust them to de-escalate.
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  16. melbo

    melbo Hunter Gatherer Administrator Founding Member

    Found on reddit - not my words

    It's not so unusual. Does the child not accept everything from the womb and adapt to it as natural?

    Slave children in recounting the tale of their childhood even have gone so far as to say they thought even being beaten and raped to be normal.

    To go to ridiculous extremes there have been experiments that raised kittens in a room that contained nothing but black and white stripes everywhere. When they were brought out into nature, on grass and open skies, they were bewildered.

    A man raised in a primitive-culture, in the dense jungle, was brought to the plains and buffalo were pointed out to him in the far off distance some miles away. Unable to comprehend what he was seeing, because he'd never once in his life been able to see anything that wasn't more than 30 yards from his face, he said these creatures were as small as ants.

    The most powerful tool of the state is the ability of the human brain to absorb its surroundings and acculturate to them. This gives it automatic force of existence in their minds, a premise upon which they automatically rely on as normal.

    As an example of how powerful this can be, there is an event that changed the entire world. It was the Crusades, but many miss what actually happened. The Crusaders went down and did stupid and evil things everywhere they went, but ultimately they ended up seizing Jerusalem.

    They lived in Jerusalem for 80 years. In that time the original crusaders died out, quite naturally, and their children came to rule the city, and then their children. After 80 years the muslims around them forced them to go back to Europe.

    But by this point the invaders had become significantly culturally Islamized. Almost everything we think of as modern and western was at that point unknown in Europe and well known in the near east, and was brought back to Europe by these crusaders on their return journey. From fine silks to makeup, to all sorts of books and learning.

    At the time europe was full of brutes who believed in war and violence above all. The Europeans who returned to england were extremely different. They brought back with them a trait learned from the muslims that would change everything: the concept of the gentleman, the idea that a person could be both compassionate and strong.

    This idea swept europe, becoming the true goal of the knight, the sign of nobility, and it is something that is well known about Western people even to this day. Even as the Muslim world lost that very trait for other reasons.

    This is why it's vitally important that we establish our own region ASAP. The first generation of ancap children to be born in a free seastead will be the world's first children of true freedom, and the world should tremble at what they will make possible and do. They will be limitless ones that change the entire world,
  17. Pax Mentis

    Pax Mentis Philosopher King |RIP 11-4-2017

    Pointing out foolishness does not equate with attempting to silence the person offering up that foolishness.

    I knew and worked with some of the Ruby Ridge actors, and know exactly what the government priorities were and that Weaver never had a chance once he fought the setup carefully designed to give certain agencies an eye into the activities of some of his acquaintances. Yes, he was foolish in that he (like most) really did not believe that his government would go to the depths they did in order to punish him for not bending to their will.
  18. Pax Mentis

    Pax Mentis Philosopher King |RIP 11-4-2017

    And nobody at Ruby Ridge pointed a gun (at least knowingly) at an LEO until the younger Weaver was already dead. Nor was anyone pointing one when Mrs Weaver was murdered.
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  19. Kingfish

    Kingfish Self Reliant

    Weaver and his friend Kevin Harris were both acquitted of any wrong doing in the standoff. Weaver had to do some time for other trumped up charges. They and others were given settlements. Harriss got 380,000.00 The way I Read it as it went down. The boy and Harris were out with Sammy's dog looking for whatever the dog was barking at and the one of the marshals shot the dog which made the kid take a shot at the marshal who was all dressed in camo. Sammy ran for the house and got shot in the back.The marshal killed Sammy and Harris killed him. Harris made it back to house and the marshals retreated back to perimeter. Weaver and Harris went down and got the boys body and brought it up to the house. The sniper who killed Randy's wife was shooting at weaver and hit her by mistake. Weaver was not hiding behind her. She was BEHIND THE FUCKING DOOR. the Bullet hit her in the face . That remark that Weaver was hiding behind his wife and kid really piss me off because it did not go down like that. Read the testimony. Harris shot and killed a U.S. marshal and was acquitted of any wrong doing as was Randy Weaver. Both were paid off as was Randy's daughter. Randy surrendered after his wife died. Sammy was carrying a ruger mini 14 and when the marshall shot his dog the yelled shit and fired toward the marshals and ran. He was shot in the back. Harris returned fire with a bolt action 30-06 killing one marshal.

    So okay everyone has the right to an opinion but get your facts straight. Most of the facts in this article are correct.

    Ruby Ridge - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    Last edited: Mar 19, 2015
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  20. tulianr

    tulianr Don Quixote de la Monkey

    It's a good article, but I didn't learn much that I didn't already know about Ruby Ridge. I think any reasonable person has to agree that all of the law enforcement agencies involved in that fiasco were dead wrong, and some people within those agencies knew it at the time. Many of them should have stood criminal prosecution for their egregious misconduct.

    But I still agree with vonslob that if Weaver didn't start this ball rolling, he sure as heck kicked it down the hill by refusing to appear in court. What sane person thinks things are going to end well when you refuse to appear in court and dare the US Marshal's service to come and get you? You don't fight the police on the street, or in the woods - in the Ruby Ridge case. You fight them in court. If Weaver had appeared, he could have easily beaten the weapons charge that kicked this whole thing off.

    We want to scream about protecting the sanctity of our Constitution, but we don't want to use it. The rights within the Constitution are powerful weapons, if we're smart enough to use them. You exercise those rights by using them in court to embarrass and prosecute the trigger happy morons who have always been present, in the minority, within our law enforcement community. You do not refuse to comply with a bench warrant, and dare them to come after you. Even if was a trumped up charge, the concern that my family might be killed or injured when they came after me would induce me to seek my redress in court, not at the point of a gun. Weaver's family was wronged - by the US Attorney's Office, the FBI, the US Marshal's service, and by Randy Weaver.
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