Civics Censorship vs Moderation, How Democracy is lost

Discussion in 'Freedom and Liberty' started by Ganado, Feb 27, 2019.

  1. Ganado

    Ganado Monkey+++

    What is the line for forum censorship vs moderation to keep the peace?

    At what point is it appropriate to close a thread to keep the peace vs closing a thread because you don't like the opinion expressed?

    I think on a small scale it would be great to discuss this. On a larger scale it has implications for a freedom of the press and some of the freedoms other than the right to bare arms.

    What is the line for censorship? when is it acceptable for a government/moderator to cut off freedom of speech?
  2. Dont

    Dont Just another old gray Jarhead Monkey

    I have said in the past and still believe people have the right to express their thoughts on any subject as they please, to include if they smell smoke in a movie theatre. Do so quietly so my enjoyment of the movie will not be disturbed.
    What someone says reflects who they are at that time. They may or may not hold those same beliefs after further research and maturity has time to influence their beliefs.

    Someone shouting that we all will choke to death in all the toxins that cows anally expelled every day tells one that they need to do more research. Just as the quiet guy handing out literature on a street corner that illustrates the construction of gas chambers and how certain groups have created the mess we live in today.. Further research may or may not help this one.

    Often I read the expression of others with smile, thoughtful contemplation, have even had tears in my eyes from laughing so hard! Then there are the thoughts of others I have read. I have read them time, and again. And now, the page just slips past them, unread.. Sad!

    What you say reflects who you are? I hope this reflects well on me..
    oldawg, mysterymet, Ganado and 11 others like this.
  3. HK_User

    HK_User A Productive Monkey is a Happy Monkey

    On a personal level no slip of standards. To me this means if someone continually slams anyone or anything in a Troll like manner they should be publicly warned. In this are statements continually posted that express only an opinion of the poster and are posted in such a manner as to seek a angry reply from others.

    Of course the poster in question usually suggest they are only seeking a discussion.

    In short most Politicians would be banned.

    If anyone wants a better explanation then ask or PM.

    Not an end all on Trolls but a good example.

    How to Identify and Defeat an Internet Troll
  4. Salted Weapon

    Salted Weapon Monkey+++

    If its anything like Northwest Firearms, or the Liberal Gun club,
    ( being fair picking one from each side and leaving the moneys out of my comments)
    my experience its at the whim often of the mod and admins interpretation of the rules.
    And over there it varies allot. Say last week a Mod insult a member and no recourse, then a member did it and they locked the thread. Its hard to manage invisible people, and its hard to manage moderators who at times everywhere on the net, stop seeing people in the forums and just see names and stats.
    This has been and issue plaguing every forum, even those that have less then .0001% political talk. And even then issues arise,
    I came back here after a year or so, and saw the same as I did before. Certain members discuss politics in a demeaning way, and then the responses start and soon a thread lock. As adults you would think we could just have civil conversations
    ( said every Mod or Admin ever to exist)

    How forums fail, they lose touch of their main goal, then compromise due to the member population views.
    It acts very similar to our government, whom have goals but may fade here and there to appease the crowd.

    How do I know this to be fact? I ran my own forum, and let members dictate the direction and once that balls starts
    rolling your done. Oh may take weeks or months but once the ball starts rolling its just a matter of time.

    Post count, members dues, and joiners levels dropping are all signs the end is in sight, I have seen some sites stay struggling for years, but they seldom ever recover.
    Last edited: Feb 27, 2019
    oldman11, Dont, Ganado and 8 others like this.
  5. HK_User

    HK_User A Productive Monkey is a Happy Monkey

    You have my Vote good post.
    oldman11, Ganado, Gator 45/70 and 4 others like this.
  6. Bandit99

    Bandit99 Monkey+++ Site Supporter+

    As always, good questions...and damn difficult to answer.
    "What is the line for forum censorship vs moderation to keep the peace?"

    As I see it, this is a fine line which some members seem to delight in making a game of walking. Direct attacks on individuals or even on some of their values (family, religion, race, nation, etc..) shouldn't be tolerated. Furthermore, one's conduct should be adult like, respectful and civil at all times because people do have different opinions and beliefs. We are not here to argue but simply to exchange knowledge, experience and opinions by debate and conversations. This is our purpose here.

    For example, if I said, "Religion is nothing more than some silly hocus-pocus from some dusty old book that cannot factually be proved and is nothing more than a balm for weak minded imbeciles." This might be my opinion and what I believe but I am not conducting myself in a respectful manner to those members that do believe. Frankly, I have just insulted them and to no good purpose except to cause discontent and backhandedly ridicule those believers/members.

    However, what if I simply said, "I have a problem with Religion since I cannot scientifically prove it; however, it amazes me how some gain so much comfort from it." Who have I insulted? I simply stated my opinion in a respectful manner.

    So, to answer your first question, I believe it is a fine line which the Moderator themselves must judge if the thread or individual has passed the intent of the law as oppose to the letter of the law because there is a big difference between heated conversation and insult/disrespect/attacks.

    "What is the line for censorship? when is it acceptable for a government/moderator to cut off freedom of speech?"
    Unfortunately, I do not have time to give this the consideration nor explanation it needs now so I will edit this later; however, I will say, first, I do not consider the Government to equate to the Moderator. I consider a Moderator more to be compared to a courtroom Judge, both dispensing justice laid down via laws/rules/regulations. The Government is a totally different entity and, as such, should never be allowed censorship nor the power to do so in any matters....except perhaps in war but I need to think about that one.
  7. UncleMorgan

    UncleMorgan I like peeling bananas and (occasionally) people.

    Perhaps it would help to think of the Forum as a bar with a never-ending supply of drunks.

    Some are quiet drunks, some are happy drunks, and some are obnoxious drunks.

    When the obnoxious ones get too obnoxious, the bartender should cut them off.

    If that doesn't work, they can always be thrown out into the street.

    Anyone that won't behave in a polite and civilized manner (play nicely, IOW) can always go open up their own bar and be obnoxious there.

    Probably with all their obnoxious friends, so everybody wins.
    Zimmy, oldman11, Dont and 13 others like this.
  8. Bandit99

    Bandit99 Monkey+++ Site Supporter+

    @UncleMorgan "Perhaps it would help to think of the Forum as a bar with a never-ending supply of drunks."

    That is an excellent analogy, Uncle! Set us up another round! LOL!
    oldman11, Dont, Ganado and 4 others like this.
  9. Thunder5Ranch

    Thunder5Ranch Monkey+++

    Personally I lost a whole lot of interest in SM after the "White Males" thread and the feeble warning about the COC.
    Ganado, Gator 45/70 and HK_User like this.
  10. Ura-Ki

    Ura-Ki Grampa Monkey

    Morgan has it right!
    I always equate this to a couple of Old timers leaning on the gun counter shootin the breeze on any ting and every thing, as long as every one is polite and expresses themselves in a considerate manor, every one gets along just fine!
    Now, on a forum such as this, the Mod staff are like the gun shop owner, he ( Or She) has generally accepted rules that are to be followed if you are going to be allowed to grace his business with your person. Follow the rules and all is fine!
    Rabble rousers, trolls, and general asreholes usually find their welcome is limited if not revoked, and this applies to all aspects of society! You wouldn't tolerate the behavior in public, so why tolerate it in a place like this? Hum.................................
    People have the right of free speech, but that right does not extend to the point of causing harm to others!
    oldman11, Ganado, Gator 45/70 and 2 others like this.
  11. VisuTrac

    VisuTrac Ваша мать носит военные ботинки Site Supporter+++

    I'm of the opinion that anyone can say what they want. I think the part they miss out on is that the audience is judging them.

    How many people here would let GunKid come to share their fire if SHTF? I'm betting out of this entire forum .. zero.

    I used GunKid as an example because he is pretty much universally disliked.
    I think everyone should reflect on their tone, content and interactions with other and ask themselves:
    Based on my history with this particular group, if the SHTF did indeed hit, and I was stranded in another forum members AO and needed assistance, How likely are these opposing outcomes:

    I am able to obtain assistance and maybe catch a ride closer to where I want to be.
    Am I going to catch a bullet instead of a ride.

    If you determine that it's 50/50 then, you are an asshole. you should stay in your own AO. you probably should move away from the keyboard, you shouldn't gamble because your odds aren't nearly as good as you think.

    if you are attempting to win an argument at all costs, may cost you way more than you think.

    But I'll let ya carry on because free speech is a right. But I'm reserving the right to judge you based on what you say.

    Make sure you call first so I can prepare the appropriate outcome. ;)
    oldawg, Dont, Ganado and 5 others like this.
  12. Tevin

    Tevin Monkey+++

    Interesting topic. This came up on another website I hang out on.

    The thing to remember about Internet forums is there is no "freedom of speech" as most of us define it. Some private party owns/is in charge of every website, and they have the right to decide what speech is acceptable. Perhaps the censorship is arbitrary and unevenly applied, but that's well within the rights of the site management. There is no rule that says they have to be fair or unbiased.

    I run a very popular blog where readers can leave comments about articles. I don't moderate the comments, even the negative ones, but I reserve the right to delete anything I want for any reason I want and owe no one an explanation. It's my website, I pay the bills, and I alone decide what speech is allowed. If anyone does not like that, they are free to go and start their own blog where they can call their own shots.

    One guy in particular was very abrasive and troll-ish. After giving him ample uncensored space to insult me on my own website, I told him to zip it. I let his existing remarks stand, but I wasn't going to let him keep going. He hasn't been back since and I don't really care.
  13. Gator 45/70

    Gator 45/70 Monkey+++

    Well if your ever stuck down here come on by and I'll cook something up!
    VisuTrac and Dunerunner like this.
  14. duane

    duane Monkey+++

    While I like and agree with the subject, it used to be that we talked about things and censorship or moderation were tools to direct the conversation. We now live in a society where well educated 6 and 7 year olds believe they have the right and duty to tell Polesi how she should act on climate legislation or 10 year olds know that we need gun control, or AOC knows how we should run our society. Moderation or nothing else means much in a society controlled be ideology, no matter what the ideology. I think the mods here are doing a great job maintaining our dialog, putting a topic in a different section of the forum, most of mine end up in the tinfoil hat section, or locking a topic if it gets out of hand , seems to be working well. I visit this forum often because of its different views and their expressions and our ability to talk about them. I know nothing about You tube, Twitter, etc, as I ignore them all and do not join.
    oldawg, Bandit99, Ganado and 2 others like this.
  15. Salted Weapon

    Salted Weapon Monkey+++

    Opinions, create ideas, which become solutions. And I am all for that.
    What I hate to see is, the sky is falling but no guidance or ideas are given, just drama.
    The more productive material a group, or person produces the more their reputation becomes viewed with respect.

    This site is pretty tame, if we start looking at other forums in comparison. I like it here. I have learned allot over the years just reading the vast amount of knowledge here.
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 27, 2019
    oldawg, Mountainman, Bandit99 and 4 others like this.
  16. ghrit

    ghrit Bad company Administrator Founding Member

    AND the topics discussed.
  17. Dont

    Dont Just another old gray Jarhead Monkey

    I could not leave a member of this forum in need in My AO. If ya can hang on the back of a Harley you would have a ride, and with a full belly.:):ROFLMAO:
    Salted Weapon, Gator 45/70 and Ganado like this.
  18. Ganado

    Ganado Monkey+++

    Thank you gentlemen for your thoughtful opinions. We have alot of great minds on this forum and an eclectic and extensive set of knowledge and skills.

    I don't see any problem with keeping the main thing the main thing. This is a survival site not a political forum.

    I just like to see what others think about censorship vs moderation. I understand there is a political element to any forum but having members post only political threads on a survival forum is .... disheartening.
  19. Salted Weapon

    Salted Weapon Monkey+++

    Agreed, I come here to get away from drama elsewhere.
    Ganado, Gator 45/70 and Brokor like this.
  20. Brokor

    Brokor Live Free or Cry Moderator Site Supporter+++ Founding Member

    A great deal of what we are dealing with centers around what occurs in government. However, our society is structured around the philosophy of group-think programming, with televised broadcasts and smartphone wireless communications radiating every mind twenty four hours a day. The political arena, with its two party false paradigm, herds the people into one of these two, diametrically opposed groups for a very good reason. The more we expend our time and energy debating and arguing over our favorite team, the less we are likely to break out of the box and see the world for what it has become...and we are equally less likely to see what we are becoming as well.
    I'd like to propose a challenge to each and every SM member. I truly do hope that we can find time to focus on what really matters in life and question the validity of our beliefs, whether it be politics or any chosen belief system. I challenge everyone to seriously think about the consequences of our choices and try to see what truly is around us in life. I challenge every member to ask themselves if posting every daily occurrence dredged from the scandalous political cesspool is actually doing any good, and for that matter, if it might be misplaced frustration and anger which incites the knee-jerk response to share this information in the first place.
    I know, coming from a background of studying the history of our nation and the many insidious attempts to devour the republic we once had, that there exists a thin line when it comes to this topic. Therefore, I personally acknowledge the difference between historical relevance to our nation's history and how we came to be in this precarious situation and the day to day involvement with whichever puppet for Slavery, Incorporated may be broadcast. I like to think we can leave room for sensible study and the recording of pertinent governmental happenings without resorting to the typical, two party rhetoric which has darkened various aspects of the Survival Monkey.
    The political realm is becoming increasingly radicalized, as is the nature of all things resembling a nation in its death-throes. Let's not follow the herd, let's take the less traveled path and challenge each other to rise above the others.
    duane, VisuTrac, Mountainman and 3 others like this.
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