Copper pipes

Discussion in 'General Survival and Preparedness' started by oil pan 4, Feb 3, 2017.

  1. oil pan 4

    oil pan 4 Monkey+++

    Well the adventure of not paying rent has its draw backs.
    I'm going to need to replace the 1960 steel galvanized pipes under my house, they are starting to leak. The life span of galvanized steel is 30 to 50 years, so it's about due.
    Based on the title of the post I doubt that there is much left to the imagination as to what I could possibly be wanting to use for new water pipe.
    The plastic stuff is dirt cheap and I heard that the government was encouraging people to use the plastic BS back around 1991 when the EPA figured out that copper is bad for you. You know what that usually means. Copper is probably good for you, and the plastic is likey at the best not bad for you at the worse not good for you. Probably something in it to help kill us off before we reach social security age.
    Reasons I don't like plastic water pipe:
    The polybutylene recall, so I have trust issues with plastic.
    Bacteria loves to grow on plastic.
    The government encouraged people to buy plastic in the early 90s.
    Where I live the utility water pressure sits at about 100psi.
    Reasons I like copper:
    It's worked for 100 years and really took off in the late 40s.
    Bacteria don't like copper or copper patenia.
    In liquor distillation copper takes out some of the impurities.
    Copper stands up to pressure well.

    Once you decided you want copper then you must choose type M or type L.
    The difference aside from price as far as I can tell is that type M is general low pressure use under 100psi. Type L is for higher pressure and corrosive hard water.
    I have very hard water and 100psi of utility pressure so type L for me.
    If you have less water pressure or is not hard water then type M will work fine for you.
    The difference? L substantially heavier than M and the price is between L is its 50% to 100% more than M.
    AD1, stg58, sec_monkey and 3 others like this.
  2. azrancher

    azrancher Monkey +++

    Copper pipe is good, we have lots of copper mining in AZ, so buy copper...

    Polybutylene... the problem is the installation, the pipe itself is pretty heavy duty, I have about 5,000 linear feet embedded in my concrete slab, maybe I'll find some pics later to show. The problem is with the connectors and the crimping tool and the plumbers that installed it all. I've never had a problem with my connectors because I chose the tried and true screw pressure on the feral type, also no real pressure, so no leaks.

    Pex has the same installation problems as Poly, but it's easier to re-pipe a home with Pex than it is with Copper.

    Copper will leak underground, use a sheath and backfill carefully, go with type L under ground, type M where you need to bend it more and can be made accessible to replace/repair.

    I am not a plumber, but I did stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night... and I did plumb my 3,500 sq ft home along with the Poly hydronic heating in the slab.

    Yard Dart, AD1, Tully Mars and 5 others like this.
  3. ghrit

    ghrit Bad company Administrator Founding Member

    Copper is great. The reason for discouraging its use early was the lead solder used at the time. Perfectly OK with new materials. However, you are going to pay out the bung for it. Go with PEX and shark fittings. And yes, you need to control the pressure, but 100 psi is NOT a problem as long as you have a method of water hammer control. (They are variously called shock absorbers or dampers.) All the same, 100 psi is not too advisible, there should be a pressure reducer to take it down to say 40 or 50, which is more than enough for household use.

    Bacteria growth inside the pipe is absurd to consider as possible. If there are bacteria in domestic water pipe, it comes from the source OR a failed backflow preventer.
  4. chelloveck

    chelloveck Diabolus Causidicus

    Copper makes plumb good sense to me...except for cacheing....then its fantastic plastic for me.
    Gator 45/70, sec_monkey and Ura-Ki like this.
  5. Tempstar

    Tempstar Old and crochety Site Supporter+

    We used to remove copper in hard water installations that was thinner than paper. PEX is the wave of the future. Quicker install and repair and looking back on 26 year old installations, no problems. We also used it on geothermal heat pumps which were open loops and used really nasty shallow well water with never a failure. The only thing we used copper on was solar water heating because a pump failure could yield 250 degree water before the pressure would get high enough to vent.
    I'm not denouncing copper, but I'd look hard at PEX. Both are good, but overall PEX is better.
    3M-TA3, 3cyl and sec_monkey like this.
  6. oil pan 4

    oil pan 4 Monkey+++

    The only hydraulic hammering was caused by my now 11 year old water saving front load washing machine because it has water fill solenoids that would snap open and closed to fill it up just enough to get the clothes wet. I installed a hydraulic buffer and no more banging. They were only $15 each.

    The water main need to be replaced too. I'm saving up 1.5 inch 0.062'' wall 304 stainless sanitary food grade pipe for the main. It will cost little to nothing. It will just take time to find enough of it for free.
    sec_monkey and chelloveck like this.
  7. techsar

    techsar Monkey+++

    Just avoid copper for won't last and is somewhat nasty to replace after being in service.
  8. oil pan 4

    oil pan 4 Monkey+++

    PVC is great for waste water.
  9. Brokor

    Brokor Live Free or Cry Moderator Site Supporter+++ Founding Member

    Just use some quality garden hose and call it a day. [sarc2]
    john316, Tully Mars and Tempstar like this.
  10. stg58

    stg58 Monkey+++ Founding Member

    Copper for clean water PVC for waste water.
    Cruisin Sloth and sec_monkey like this.
  11. oil pan 4

    oil pan 4 Monkey+++

    Mmm garden hose makes the water taste like summer camp.
  12. medicineman

    medicineman Survival Guru

    PVC is the way to go
  13. Aeason

    Aeason Monkey

    I like PEX , this winter it was below freezing for a day and the water lines my son and I ran in PVC shattered like glass. Never had that happen like that but the portion of line that was PEX did fine
    Dunerunner and 3cyl like this.
  14. oil pan 4

    oil pan 4 Monkey+++

    PVC is great.
    For sewer lines.
  15. 3M-TA3

    3M-TA3 Cold Wet Monkey Site Supporter++

    I'd go with PEX over copper - won't break when your water freezes during nuclear winter, flexibility a bonus during landslides, earthquakes, and volcanic eruptions. Also, crackheads won't steal it to buy drugs while you are on vacation.

    Copper has the advantage of adding metal mass to your walls if you are hiding guns and ammo in your walls and want to fool metal detectors.
    Gator 45/70 and Homer Simpson like this.
  16. oil pan 4

    oil pan 4 Monkey+++

    I have cast iron vent pipes.
    My yard is littered with nails, wire clippings, tiny scraps of metal cut off steel and stainless steel, maybe dropped a few tungsten electrodes, dropped lots of stick electrode stubs here and there.
    More metal is good.
    Plus with the new water pipes are getting insulation and an anti icing system even after they didn't freeze in the winter of 2010 and 2011 where there was a week of -10°F nights, when they had no insulation or anti ice protection. Plus I'm going to put in a blow down system.
    Gator 45/70 and AD1 like this.
  17. AD1

    AD1 Monkey+++

    Copper is in my home built in the early 70's in AZ.

    You can buy a pressure reducer for the main service line and dial in you desired sub100PSI pressure.

    When you get into the tight spots at termanation, PEX and shark bites are frickin great!
    Last edited: Mar 19, 2017
    Gator 45/70 likes this.
  18. AD1

    AD1 Monkey+++

    IMG_3071.JPG IMG_3072.JPG IMG_3073.JPG Copper is in my home built in the early 70's in AZ.

    You can buy a pressure reducer for the main service line and dial in you desired sub100PSI pressure.

    When you get into the tight spots at termanation, PEX and shark bites are frickin great![/QUOTE]

    You can see a conversion from a plumber screwup using galvanized unions with copper pipe which disabled my Kholer mega shower DTV valving system.

    The galunions rusted and jammed the valves. I got Kohler to send me new valves for free($140 each)

    And since it was installed in a confined space there was no way to replace with copper/brass unions so PEX and Shark bites saved the day.
    Gator 45/70, VisuTrac and ghrit like this.
  19. oil pan 4

    oil pan 4 Monkey+++

    I do have a pex crimp and clamps. If I do get into any tight spots I will have to do that.
    I kind of like the 100psi utility pressure.
    Gator 45/70 likes this.
  20. arleigh

    arleigh Goophy monkey

    my brothers home was piped in copper , few years later they had to re pipe the whole home because due to electrolysis they began leaking . every where.
    He re-plumbed in galvanized iron and no problems sense.
    PVC is good for cold water "not hot". hot water needs something that won't go soft and transfer it's chemistry in the process .
    as for every other application ABS and PVC are best .
    It is generally NOT GOOD to mix metals in water systems , electrolysis is inevitable . copper and brass is a no no . and they don't have to even touch, the water makes the connection just like a battery.
    Gator 45/70 likes this.
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