Drug Testing for Welfare

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Seacowboys, Jun 1, 2011.

  1. Seacowboys

    Seacowboys Senior Member Founding Member

    (CNN) -- Saying it is "unfair for Florida taxpayers to subsidize drug addiction," Gov. Rick Scott on Tuesday signed legislation requiring adults applying for welfare assistance to undergo drug screening.
    "It's the right thing for taxpayers," Scott said after signing the measure. "It's the right thing for citizens of this state that need public assistance. We don't want to waste tax dollars. And also, we want to give people an incentive to not use drugs."

    Under the law, which takes effect on July 1, the Florida Department of Children and Family Services will be required to conduct the drug tests on adults applying to the federal Temporary Assistance for Needy Families program. The aid recipients would be responsible for the cost of the screening, which they would recoup in their assistance if they qualify. Those who fail the required drug testing may designate another individual to receive the benefits on behalf of their children.

    Shortly after the bill was signed, five Democrats from the state's congressional delegation issued a joint statement attacking the legislation, one calling it "downright unconstitutional."

    "Governor Scott's new drug testing law is not only an affront to families in need and detrimental to our nation's ongoing economic recovery, it is downright unconstitutional," said Rep. Alcee Hastings. "If Governor Scott wants to drug test recipients of TANF benefits, where does he draw the line? Are families receiving Medicaid, state emergency relief, or educational grants and loans next?"
    Rep. Corrine Brown said the tests "represent an extreme and illegal invasion of personal privacy."
    "Indeed, investigating people when there is probable cause to suspect they are abusing drugs is one thing," Brown said in the joint statement. "But these tests amount to strip searching our state's most vulnerable residents merely because they rely on the government for financial support during these difficult economic times."

    Joining in the statement denouncing the measure were Democratic Reps. Kathy Castor, Ted Deutch and Frederica Wilson.

    Controversy over the measure was heightened by Scott's past association with a company he co-founded that operates walk-in urgent care clinics in Florida and counts drug screening among the services it provides.

    In April, Scott, who had transferred his ownership interest in Solantic Corp. to a trust in his wife's name, said the company would not contract for state business, according to local media reports. He subsequently sold his majority stake in the company, local media reported.

    On May 18, the Florida Ethics Commission ruled that two conflict-of-interest complaints against Scott were legally insufficient to warrant investigation, and adopted an opinion that no "prohibited conflict of interest" existed.

    Also on Tuesday, Scott also signed a measure outlawing hallucinogenic designer drugs known as "bath salts."

    "The chemical substances found in 'bath salts' constitute a significant threat to health and public safety," the governor's office said in a statement. "Poison control centers in Florida have reported 61 calls of 'bath salts' abuse, making Florida the state with the second-highest volume of calls."

    The drugs "are readily available at convenience stores, discount tobacco outlets, gas stations, pawnshops, tattoo parlors, and truck stops, among other locations," the governor's office said.
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 15, 2013
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  2. ghrit

    ghrit Bad company Administrator Founding Member

    Tanstafl TANF gets there. +1 on Scott.

    I agree that it's an invasion of privacy, but a necessary one. Look at it as an intervention rather than invasion. My thinking is that there's a choice to be made, and forcing the choice rather than letting it fester is the way to go. "If you can't do the time ---"
    dragonfly likes this.
  3. Falcon15

    Falcon15 Falco Peregrinus

    I fall back on my standard statement. If I have to drug test to work for my money, those who are getting my (tax) money for free should be required to test as well.

    edit: This is not about invading anyone's privacy. This is about the State not wanting to fund addictions. Good for them.
  4. Gator 45/70

    Gator 45/70 Monkey+++

    +1 for Falcon15...I have to take a drug test ever so often in order to maintain my job...These people should too...and as a added + if they clean up their act...They to can join the regular workforce...I see a Win/Win here...
    tacmotusn and beast like this.
  5. beast

    beast backwoodsman

    as a truck driver and heavy machine operator
    i was subject to drug screenings
    if those people want money, let them earn it
    even if to earn it means being screened
  6. kckndrgn

    kckndrgn Monkey+++ Moderator Emeritus Founding Member

    Agreed, if you want to get money from the government take the test. I do not see it as an invasion of privacy.
    Want free money, pee in a cup!
    tacmotusn, beast and Falcon15 like this.
  7. Falcon15

    Falcon15 Falco Peregrinus

    Gee if that is all I have to do...where is the dang CUP? I got 2 pots of coffee just burning a hole in my bladder. Do you get more for quantity or is it about quality? [coffee2]
    Gator 45/70, beast and BTPost like this.
  8. Gator 45/70

    Gator 45/70 Monkey+++

    ^^^ ccc ^^^...Could be a matter of just how good that coffee is!! You buy'n??
  9. Witch Doctor 01

    Witch Doctor 01 Mojo Maker

    Jeeze... next thing you know they will want to enforce birth control emplants for women on public assistance.... what will they think of next...;) [stirpot]
  10. Seawolf1090

    Seawolf1090 Retired Curmudgeonly IT Monkey Founding Member

    We Florida State Employees see this as a two-edged sword. They are already talking of making ALL State Employees go through this 'pee in the cup' BS. I thought I had left that nonsense when I separated from the military! Ah well. If WE have to pee in the cup, then yeah! I want the welfare cases to do the same. "Equal Rights" all around, even when it is distasteful. [stirpot]

    I'm betting the Liberals and the ACLU won't let this stand though. They will play up the Race Card angle.......
    Falcon15 and hank2222 like this.
  11. beast

    beast backwoodsman

    the most racist people ive ever known, are the ones who cry "racism"
    jasonl6, Falcon15 and hank2222 like this.
  12. hank2222

    hank2222 Monkey+++

    i feel your pain on this one area ..

    because i went on a medical retirement my former job can make me pee in a cup twice a year to get my medical coverage from them ..i allways tell them every time i have gone in for the testing i have failed because of the one drug that i'm on ..

    the doctor goes when he see me ..your going to pee hot ..i goes yes i'm and he goes hand me your medication list and off i go to the place with cup .

    about three weeks later i get the new's i failed and but still passed because of beening on a control drug for pain mgn at times from the doctor's order..

    i once asked the doctor the question of why do you test me when you know up front that i'm going to fail right off the bat ..he tells me that a number of the people who come in have some type of medication in there system that make them pee hot and it going to come out as a even number & odd number who hot and on some type of doctor order medication & who on some type of illegal drug ..

    as long the one's who pee hot match's the doctor medication list that we have on you safe and your's have never change in the time you been doing the test.
  13. IceNiner

    IceNiner Monkey+

    They need to periodically test all the politicians and those candidates running for public office as well. Try getting that done by either political party! You think there's going to be a fight over this, the politicians would burn down the Capital before making themselves and their drug habits public knowledge!

    (Also, I'm not white, work for living, am ex-military and see nothing racist about this testing at all. These welfare mommas are a burden on everyone American, not just white folks!)
    STANGF150, Gator 45/70 and hank2222 like this.
  14. Gator 45/70

    Gator 45/70 Monkey+++

    Well By Golly...+1 for posting up..and Thanks' for the military service...

    hank2222 likes this.
  15. Brokor

    Brokor Live Free or Cry Moderator Site Supporter+++ Founding Member

    Not directly on this topic, but something important nonetheless:

    Decriminalize Marijuana, for crying out loud. it's a natural plant, causes no harm, and it will open the market to hemp farmers and bolster this collapsing economy. The war on drugs is actually an assault on the people. STOP prosecuting the people and wasting funding and resources by proliferating the militarized police state!

    On topic: If poor people pee into a cup and it comes out with cocaine in it, should we blame them or the CIA for shipping it in in the first place? I guess if they use that welfare for buying more cocaine, doesn't the "government money" go right back to the CIA anyway? Hrmm...I know it's kind of twisted, isn't it? Don't get me wrong, drugs are bad --but Marijuana isn't a drug. It's a plant. And Nixon, Reagan, Bush, and all the rest of the suit wearing locusts on the hill have no idea the damage they have caused.

    *edit* I know some pimple-faced Google-tard is going to say "Cocaine is derived from a plant, so..blah, blah, marijuana isn't...blah, blah" *SMACK* Shut up. Marijuana isn't processed, cut, and it has no side effects except making you have the munchies. Everything else is a LIE.
    IceNiner and hank2222 like this.
  16. IceNiner

    IceNiner Monkey+

    Oh, I have to disagree. I think the Government that keeps the war on drugs going know exactly what they are doing. Keeps various government agencies employed, keeps funds going to the (politician funding) private prison industry and their contractors, keeps a string on otherwise innocent people (like those who could benefit from medicinal marijuana) so that the government can jerk you by that string when they feel like it via putting you in jail/prison or threatening to, also it keeps the pharmaceutical companies fat and happy by producing toxic drugs with ridiculous side affects that can make your condition worse. I don't think any of that action by the government is by accident.

    NOWHITEFLAG Live Free or Die Trying

    Privacy- Invasion

    With All Due Respect,

    It is no longer a privacy issue, The recipients of these "Public" social programs have given up their right to privacy when "our" earned money is being by law taken from us and given to them. I was listening to a talk-radio program yesterday morning, most of the callers to the program ,Were in favor of testing. After ALL the "Libs" are all about "Fairness" right. If our Military Personell and most All of us have to be tested to "earn" the money they are getting from us, then it is only fair they meet the same standard.

    No White Flag Above My Door
  18. Brokor

    Brokor Live Free or Cry Moderator Site Supporter+++ Founding Member

    lol, you haven't read enough of my posts. What I meant was, the politicians don't understand the full repercussions of their actions. Sure, they know exactly what they are doing; everything you said is quite true. Trust me here, I am usually the first person to state exactly what you just did. But, there's a difference between knowing what they are conspiring to accomplish and having to live in a world filled with despotic tyranny. Many of these politicians actually believe they are doing the right thing. There are some who are psychotic, evil, and without conscience, too...but that's not my focus.

    Have a great Thursday!
  19. Brokor

    Brokor Live Free or Cry Moderator Site Supporter+++ Founding Member

    I hate to be the bearer of ill tidings, but every single penny collected from Federal taxes go directly to the privately owned IRS, where it is used for black ops programs and their own agendas. The idea behind income tax stems from communism, and it is a transfer of wealth from the poor and aggregated into private corporate trusts. The goal is to create a single class of people much like a serfdom which is utterly dependent upon government to function. Once you have studied the source of this ideology as long as I have, you begin to see a pattern. The income tax originated soon after the restructuring of the U.S. monetary system with the adoption of a newly empowered private banking system. Of course, the very same families which were in control of the banks since the very First Bank of the United States began, were involved in this enterprise. Not surprisingly, FDR and his banking friends collectively sought to usher in a massive reformation to the banking industry. The empowering Act which grants these private banks privilege to conduct business in the United States, for without such would be in direct conflict with the Constitution, is USCA Title 12, section 95(b), which empowers the President and the Secretary of the Treasury (ordinarily without absolute powers) the power to write into law virtually anything (see Presidential Proclamations) with the fore-approved consent of Congress. It also enables, more specifically Presidential Proclamation #2038 of March 6, 1933 which (see Black's Law Dictionary 6th Ed. under "Bank Holiday") grants the banks the privilege to conduct banking business. This was all done with the advent of commercial law and the sidelining of the common law --the Constitution, under the Emergency War Powers has been placed on hold and we have been suckered into adopting "colorable law" (admiralty) to regulate and punish all those it mandates, and "We the People" are quite clearly listed as who it regulates. Since these commercial "laws" cannot legally be used against sovereign human beings (again in violation of common law and the Constitution), they had to find a sneaky way to corporatize the cattle. Now we can get into birth certification, licensing, privileges and registration. The Trading With the Enemy Act of 1917 clearly established exactly WHO the enemy to the United States was back then.

    Unfortunately for us, FDR and the banks made certain this was altered early on. If we look at FDR's Presidential Proclamations #2039 and #2040 from March 9, 1933, we will find the Act was amended to INCLUDE "All Citizens of the United States" as enemies to be regulated and punished accordingly. Again, all approved and confirmed by Congress. Sure enough, the socialist model first envisioned soon became even greater than some anticipated. The now completely FIAT currency enables these private banking cartels to create wealth out of thin air --funding wars and snatching control over entire nations worldwide through debt, then promising hope in the form of international monetary relief with plenty of strings attached.

    I could go on, but I will spare you the drawn-out story. The bottom line is that the "money" collected isn't yours, it doesn't belong to the poor or the impoverished, it is a contract and a tool for control. The "money" we use is without competition, meaning "legal tender", and any who choose to use anything else to barter risk suffering the consequences from the State. Since it is the only means to conduct business without the initiation of force levied against us, we are all in the same, rat infested sinking ship without a life raft. The "money" collected isn't used for *insert social program here*<insert social="" program="" here="">, it is never ours to begin with --it belongs to the private banks and their shareholders. We are all nothing more to these people than "Gentiles" and "serfs", or if you prefer the legal terminology, we are the equivalent to slaves. Class envy was always the favorite tenet of the communist manifesto. Please do not allow this philosophy which has been drilled into the minds of every American for the last 80 years confuse the reality of our true situation.

    Rich or poor, we are all Americans first and foremost. There is practically no middle class anymore; it has been dissolved and replaced with only media headlines and more class struggle propaganda. While this economy continues to crumble, you should try to remember my words here, for nothing is happening out of coincidence or by faulty design, but by carefully placed intent and solid scientific mandate.

    YouTube - ‪admiralty law, common law and the sovereign‬&rlm;
    YouTube - ‪The Federal Reserve, the IRS & Communism‬&rlm;

  20. Brokor

    Brokor Live Free or Cry Moderator Site Supporter+++ Founding Member

    And as for the IRS...

    There is good reason to be informed, and even more to be extremely cautious when planning to exercise your rights. Bear in mind I have seen FIRST HAND, the corruption in our judicial system.


    We closed our previous update stating, “Our next update will detail the darkest and most outrageous example of the three branches having a secret share in a scheme to forbid the People from claiming and exercising their First Amendment Right to hold the government accountable to the Constitution.

    Here is the background and the particulars.

    Since 1995, People have been attempting to hold the Government accountable to the Constitution by exercising the little-known, unalienable Right guaranteed by the last ten words of the First Amendment, “…and to Petition the Government for a Redress of Grievances”.

    While this Right was placed in the First Amendment as the PRIMARY means through which the power of the People to directly hold the Government accountable could be exercised, peaceably, our modern-day world of materialism and apathy, public largess for votes, and routine usurpation of power by the Government, has left the “capstone Right” dormant and all but forgotten. Ask any attorney to cite the five rights guaranteed by the First Amendment and most will not mention the Right to Petition the Government for a Redress of Grievances.

    In Petitioning for Redress. we were motivated by the knowledge that a departure from the Constitution in one instance becomes a precedent for a second, that second for a third, and so on, until the People are reduced to misery and suffering.

    We knew, “The time to guard against corruption and tyranny is before they shall have gotten hold of us. It is better to keep the wolf out of the fold than to trust to drawing his teeth and talons after he shall have entered.” Thomas Jefferson. Notes on the State of Virginia, 1782.

    We knew that each violation of the Constitution has a ravaging effect on America, Her People, economy, reputation and security, and that the whole of the devastation would be greater than the sum of the parts.

    We knew that an act of tyranny anywhere is a threat to Freedom everywhere.

    We Petitioned to Remedy the violations of the Constitution arising from:

    1. the $ 20 billion bailout of Mexico in 1995 without approval by Congress; and

    2. the bombing of Yugoslavia in 1999 after Congress refused to authorize it; and

    3. the direct, un-apportioned tax on labor; and

    4. the withholding of earnings from the paychecks of workers; and

    5. the Federal Reserve System’s fiat, debt-based currency; and

    6. the decision to invade Iraq by the President, rather than Congress; and

    7. the USA Patriot Act; and

    8. the federal gun control laws; and

    9. the failure of Presidents to enforce the immigration laws; and

    10. the movement toward a North American Union; and

    11. the counting of votes in secret by machines; and

    12. the eligibility to be President if both parents are not U.S. citizens; and

    13. the $ 85 billion bailout of AIG; and

    14. the $ 700M TARP bailout.

    The result has always been the same; silence, no response. Silence, however, under well established U.S. law, is admission, when a public official has a duty to respond and chooses not to.

    The People decided to test the attitude of the Judiciary. On July 19, 2004, the People filed a lawsuit asking the federal Court to declare -- for the first time in history -- the Constitutional meaning of the last ten words of the First Amendment. The title of the case was, We The People v. United States.

    The Court was asked to answer two questions: 1) whether the Government is obligated under the First Amendment to respond to the People's Petitions for Redress of violations of the Constitution; and 2) whether the People possess the Right to retain their money until those Grievances are redressed.

    Obviously, the correct answer to the first question is “yes” – the Government is obligated to respond. To speculate otherwise would be to call into question why the clause was included as part of the First Amendment. It is noteworthy that the Petition clause is the only part of the Amendment which articulates a specific and direct form and process of communication from the People to the Government, thereby reiterating the potent principle from the Declaration of Independence that defines government as a servant of the People. Finally, in the words of the Supreme Court of 1803, “It cannot be presumed that any clause in the constitution is intended to be without effect....” Marbury v. Madison, 5 U.S. 137, 174.

    The correct answer to the second question is also “yes” – the People have a right of enforcement. It is well known in American Jurisprudence that "with every right there is a remedy" and "any right that is not enforceable is not a right." The Right to withhold money as a peaceable means for the People to “weigh in” on and Redress unconstitutional governmental acts arises from the Founding Fathers and their sound reasoning as to how a Republic must operate to ensure the Rights of a Free People.

    On October 6, 2006 oral arguments were heard by the United States Court of Appeals. Traditionally, Appeals Courts issue their decisions within 4-6 weeks following oral arguments. However, the decision in the Right to Petition lawsuit was issued more than seven months after oral arguments. Why the delay?

    We now know activities were quietly taking place within the other two branches of the Government that appear to have directed the verdict in our case.

    Rather than work with the People’s concerns by responding directly to our Petitions for Redress, the Government chose to “clamp down,” through a (constitutionally abhorrent) tripartite treaty – a tripartition, divided among the three branches, for the purpose of (unlawfully) colluding to deny the People their First Amendment Right to hold the government accountable to the Constitution. These actions were taken in a manner to attract the least attention possible.

    First, in December, 2006, the 109th Congress passed the “Tax Relief and Health Care Act of 2006.” (H.R. 6111) Please note the title. This Act was meant to retroactively extend tax credits that had expired in 2005: Sounds good for the People - but look again.

    Tucked away in the Act was a provision (Title III -- Health Savings Accounts, Section 407) (click on Section 407) that authorized the (Executive Branch) Treasury Department to make law (i.e., unconstitutionally) – that is, to administratively prescribe a list of “specified frivolous positions,” and impose a penalty of $5,000 on any person who uses a “specified frivolous position” as a ground of reasoning for retaining his money from the Government. Disturbingly, there is no definition of “frivolous” in the Act.

    Then, on March 15, 2007, the Treasury Department published Notice 2007-30, a list of “Frivolous Positions”, again, without defining “frivolous.” Included on the frivolous list, among numerous other well-researched and proven positions, is Government’s refusal to respond to First Amendment Petitions for Redress of Grievances. (See paragraph (9)b of the Notice). Citizens who raise the issue of government’s failure to respond to First Amendment Petitions for Redress as a ground of reasoning for retaining their money from the Government are subject to a severe penalty.

    In short, all the “positions” cited in the Treasury Notice (including the full exercise of the First Amendment Right to Petition) are deemed "frivolous” simply because Government says so.

    Then, on May 8, 2007, the U.S. Court of Appeals for the DC Circuit finally issued its decision in We The People v. United States (seven months after it heard oral argument), ruling that the Government is not obligated to respond to the People’s First Amendment Petitions for Redress and, therefore, the People do not have the Right to retain their money until the Government responds.

    The Judiciary fell into line with the “verdict” directed by the actions of the Legislative branch on December 9, 2006, and the Executive branch on March 15, 2007. A ruling that abused the judicial doctrine of stare decisis by relying on a principle of law laid down in two irrelevant cases.

    It is difficult to come to any other conclusion but that there has been an assent by the three branches of the central government to actively thwart and quash any attempt by the People to enforce their Right to hold the Government accountable under the first amendment.

    The People need to realize the full extent of the adverse impact this collusion will have upon Freedom in America.

    A Petition for Certiorari (w/ Appendix) was filed, but the Supreme Court refused to hear the case which could have recognized the People’s Right to peaceably hold the Government accountable to the Constitution, thereby shifting the ultimate power in our society from the Government back to the People, where it was meant to reside in the first place.

    A Scheme Well-Concealed

    Who among us knew that a very lengthy bill, the “Tax Relief and Health Care Act of 2006,” widely popular because it retroactively extended for two years, hundreds of tax credits that had expired in December 2005, which was introduced and passed both houses of Congress in three days in December 2006 (with no record of who voted for or against the bill) actually included a provision that authorized the Executive branch to prescribe a list of “specified frivolous positions” and to fine anyone $5,000 if they cite any of those positions as a reason for retaining their money? The Table of Contents for the Act itself runs 25 pages.

    Who among us knew that on March 15, 2007, the IRS published Notice 2007-30 containing a list of “specified frivolous positions,” and that the list included “the Right to Petition the Government for Redress of Grievances”, among many others and now being used against citizens who are standing on the Law and acting upon their beliefs?

    Who among us was able to see the connection between the acts of the Congress and Treasury and the May 8, 2007 decision by the Court in We The People v. United States, declaring the Government is not obligated to respond to the People’s Petitions for Redress of constitutional torts and the People have no Right to peaceably enforce their Rights?

    What great discords and suffering might have been prevented, especially now, in these days of great national distress and economic turmoil had a government founded of the People, by the People, and for the People, been willing to openly answer the questions asked by the People in their Petitions for Redress.

    It is clear that we, the People are up against unjust government and laws. If we are to maintain the great American experiment, it is essential for the leaders of every group of “Freedom Keepers” to come together and meet face-to-face, with great haste, to develop a “Liberty Matrix” and a peaceful course of action for the Free to defend the greatest governing documents ever given to mankind and with the recollection that the cause of America is still the cause of the World.

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