1. Given the media intensity given to the Corona or Wuhan virus, there seems no reason to have posts on that very specific subject in several forums Accordingly, all of those posts will be moved to "Headlines". All new items on that subject should be posted there as well. This notice will expire on 1 April, or be extended if needed. Thanks, folks.

Electric vehicles

Discussion in 'Peak Oil' started by hank2222, May 16, 2018.

  1. Cruisin Sloth

    Cruisin Sloth Special & Slow

    Tesla was trying to push RF transfer ,, So the way we came about was worked out with FAILURES 2 a few that worked !

    This is known in real history .. AGB did his thing in Canada over a small distance , DC dropped the distance , AC was much better .
    Im stunned that so many don't know history of power .
    I teach this
    Zimmy, Gator 45/70 and hank2222 like this.
  2. aardbewoner

    aardbewoner judge a human on how he act,not on look and talk.

    Yes 4 breakers but most forget there is a main fuze that feed ALL breakers and is 25A so you cant even get a full load on 2 breakers (groups). And if that blows its dark,no loaded car,smart phone ,alarm clock and heating
    Gator 45/70 and hank2222 like this.
  3. HK_User

    HK_User A Productive Monkey is a Happy Monkey Site Supporter

    Pretty light breakers in that setup. Certainly much lower than the US.
    Like I said before current installations in homes in the US have a normal service entry breakers (no fuses) of 200amps @ 220 volts.

    Of course the two areas are much different but having a EV includes the Plans/Need for HOME charging. Wouldn't make much sense to not include proper HOME Charging to complete the Ease of operating a EV in a timely and comfortable manner. The ZERO motorcycle has an onboard charger power required is 120 volts at 10 amps. As well a super charger powered 220 volts. Charge is easy in either type charger and usually done at home.

    Looks to me that most US
    HOMES will have the required level of power drops to save a bunch of money since little if any extra service drop would be needed to support HOME charging.

    Looks good to me.

    Bring on the long distance Tesla.
    Last edited: May 17, 2018
    hank2222 and Gator 45/70 like this.
  4. aardbewoner

    aardbewoner judge a human on how he act,not on look and talk.

    @HK_User A breaker is just a switch that 200A 220v is what it can switch MAX !
    You have to look at the main fuse (if you can! because mostly its sealed away so you cant grab free power :) ) your power company can tell you it value.
    Gator 45/70 and hank2222 like this.
  5. HK_User

    HK_User A Productive Monkey is a Happy Monkey Site Supporter

    Not here.
    Incoming power straight from the pole transformer is received at the "Meter Loop" and then drops down to the input breakers.
    (Electricity.. breaker. a device for interrupting an electric circuit to prevent excessive current, as that caused by a short circuit, from damaging the apparatus in the circuit or from causing a fire.)
    rated at what ever size you and the Co-Op determine.
    If you like I will provide pictures. I wired my home from the meter loop to the distribution panel that I selected and then pulled a "Home Run" to the area I designed for each load.

    If you try to steal power you better have the gear for you will be doing it HOT and since all our meters are digital you'll be caught and then no power till after fines and court cost. The "Fuse" is at the top of the input to the transformer and is 22,000 or so volts.

    USA Strictly National Electric Code. aka NEC
    About the NEC®
    Throughout the United States and around the world, NFPA 70®, National Electrical Code® (NEC®), sets the foundation for electrical safety in residential, commercial, and industrial occupancies. The 2017 edition of this trusted Code presents the latest comprehensive regulations for electrical wiring, overcurrent protection, grounding, and installation of equipment.

    Meter Loop[​IMG]
    Last edited: May 18, 2018
    Gator 45/70 and hank2222 like this.
  6. oil pan 4

    oil pan 4 Monkey+++

    I pay for my power.
    At least until I put solar panels up.
    Gator 45/70 and hank2222 like this.
  7. HK_User

    HK_User A Productive Monkey is a Happy Monkey Site Supporter

    Yup and you will still be paying for your power.
    Zimmy, Gator 45/70 and hank2222 like this.
  8. oil pan 4

    oil pan 4 Monkey+++

    Just less of it.
    There's no way I'm generating 2.6 MwH with solar during peak months.
    Gator 45/70 and hank2222 like this.
  9. HK_User

    HK_User A Productive Monkey is a Happy Monkey Site Supporter

    I did a schedule and since I live where I do the amortization of the install with all the equipment will not pay out in $$ or labor.
    Last edited: May 18, 2018
    Gator 45/70 and hank2222 like this.
  10. oil pan 4

    oil pan 4 Monkey+++

    I'm the labor and installer.
    That' the only reason I think it might be worth while.
    Paying someone to do it roughly doubles the cost.
    Gator 45/70 and hank2222 like this.
  11. HK_User

    HK_User A Productive Monkey is a Happy Monkey Site Supporter

    Not just the install, I have lived with power conversion and batteries for years on end. Think ahead sooner or later you will need to replace not only batteries but repair solar frames and converters.
    Zimmy, Gator 45/70 and hank2222 like this.
  12. oil pan 4

    oil pan 4 Monkey+++

    Well first I'm doing grid tie, then may go off grid eventually.
    I expect the inverter to last 5 to 7 years or less.
    First bunch of panels I want to roof ounot then the rest can be ground mounted.
    Gator 45/70 and hank2222 like this.
  13. oil pan 4

    oil pan 4 Monkey+++

    I decided to check out the leaf with my Flir i7 IR camera.
    The leaf puts off all most no heat compared to a gasoline vehicle.

    I know the military likes IR suppression.

    Aside from the tires heating up it doesn't look like a normal car at all.
    Further more the tires don't appear to heat up as much as a gasoline vehicle, likely because of the regenerative braking and anti brake drag springs I installed.
    HK_User and Gator 45/70 like this.
  14. natshare

    natshare Monkey+++

    IMHO, the biggest problem with adoption, has been a choice between affordability, and range. You can buy a Nissan Leaf, but with a battery range of ~150 miles (2019 model), and a sticker price of ~$30,000 to ~$36,000, it's barely squeaking by the affordability factor (and is likely only considered so, because of any government tax subsidies, that might still exist). Charging times are being reported as 35h at 110V, 7.5h at 220V.

    Meanwhile, you have a Tesla model 3, which is reporting as a 260 mile range (mid-range battery), and shows on the Tesla site as $34,200, with a big ol' asterisk next to that price. Why? Because the actual price is $46,000, but is considered the lower price, "after incentives and gas savings". o_O Um, yeah....okay! :rolleyes:

    If you want the longer range battery (which only adds 50 miles to the total range, up to 310, albeit with the all-wheel drive, versus rear-wheel drive of the cheapest model), that price goes up to $53,000, with the "after incentives and gas savings" price of $41,200. And we're not even getting into the cost of installing the high end charging ability to your home (and who would like to bet, that Tesla requires professional installation, by someone vetted by their company?).

    Sorry, but for the average family of 4, they're hardly going to be willing to spend what's probably amounting to a full year's salary, on a car, when they can buy a family sedan for half that price. Yeah, gas prices might go up to $4/gallon....but how many years will have to go by, even at that high price, before you're going to hit the break-even point, with your electric sedan??

    They might work well in the city, where shorter distance driving is the norm. But seeing as I'm a full 2-hour drive, from a major airport, who may or may not have a charging station available, going with anything less than the Tesla model 3's range, is just stupendously foolish. Keep in mind, too, that the figures they're giving, are on a test track, with perfect conditions, and are "EPA estimates"....real world range might turn out to be a bit shorter. Especially if you're driving during the hotter weather months, and running your A/C. :eek:
    Gator 45/70 likes this.
  15. oil pan 4

    oil pan 4 Monkey+++

    Buying an electric new is worse than buying any other kind of vehicle new.
    They suffer what I call catastrophic depreciation.
    Bad for the sucker that drives it off the lot, good for someone like me who tries to find undervalued assets.

    That's why I bought a 2011 with a new battery. 2011 is the most hated year and had lost over 80% of its value in about 7 years.
    Teslas biggest problem is you can't just go out and buy a new one, last time I checked it was up to a 2 year wait to get a new one.

    I don't live in the city and it works fine for me.
    I assumed the leaf would cover around 80 to 90% of my driving needs. No its more like 98%.
    Last time I put gas in my firebird was September some time I believe on or around the 30th (it's still almost full) and put gas in my wifes car on the 23rd of october. Even then, in September I filled the firebird up from around 3/4.

    $4 a gallon is already here in some places. Hell it's $3.75 here.

    My leaf only has 60miles of range that I can use safely with out hurting the battery. But yesterday I put over 100 miles on it.
    I drove to the rental house, put it on the charger there, worked on a few little things, ran a bunch of errands, came back to the rental house to finish up, charged some more, went back home put it on the charger, then went back to town (where I had just been) to pick up my wifes prescription later after the dr called it into the wrong walmart. Just that saved $12 to $15 in gas.

    As far I can tell the leaf likes the heat. The cold is killing it's range.
    The A/C doesn't hurt the range as much as I thought it would.
    Cold and running the electric resistance heater (resistance heat is only found only on 2011, 2012 and some 2013 leaf cars) is what murders the range.
    Most 2013s and all 2014 and up have heat pump heating that is around 3 times more efficient than electric resistance.

    Don't buy a new electric vehicle, or any new car ever. I never said to buy a new one.
    I cut a check for the car so financing charges were a total of $3.50, the price for a bank certified check.
    I'm saving around $150 per month on gas after I pay the electric bill and keep insurance on the firebird. I was originally projecting a $50 to $100 savings after electrical is paid for and insurance on the other car.
    So if I don't count the cost of the firebird insurance I'm saving almost $200 per month.
    I have always kept a spare car ready to go since 2006, just because that's how I am.
    Car problems for me are not normally an emergency.
    Last edited: Oct 30, 2018
  16. Gator 45/70

    Gator 45/70 Monkey+++

    You Boys are getting ripped off on fuel,2.49-2.79 here Diesel is at about 3.00
    oldman11 likes this.
  17. oil pan 4

    oil pan 4 Monkey+++

    I'm not getting ripped off.

    I have found one more ev in town. A chevy spark ev. I wasn't sure if it was an ev until I looked in the hatch and saw the tell tail extension cord and evse.
    Poor guy is using a 120v charger.
    Gator 45/70 and oldman11 like this.
  18. Cruisin Sloth

    Cruisin Sloth Special & Slow

    Looking to buy one or 3 also , Just needed to buy a replacement car from , partner knocked off the front end .
    new is a 2014S60 T5 59 engine
    pure ev or hyb??

    I have test time
    Last edited: Nov 2, 2018
    Gator 45/70 and oldman11 like this.
  19. oil pan 4

    oil pan 4 Monkey+++

    If you know you are going to keep a gasoline powered car in reserve consider getting a pure electric.
    If it will be your only vehicle, then probably some kind of hybrid.
    Gator 45/70, oldman11 and 3cyl like this.
  20. arleigh

    arleigh Goophy monkey

    You know there are kits for making your own car.
    Of course it takes work, any thing worth while is worth the investment ,especially if you leave room for improvement and an education along the way .
    Had I the scratch ,I'd be building an electric bike over buying some one else's ideas .
    Gator 45/70 likes this.
survivalmonkey SSL seal        survivalmonkey.com warrant canary