EMP, The Electromagnetic Pulse

Discussion in 'General Survival and Preparedness' started by oil pan 4, Jun 6, 2016.


  1. oil pan 4

    oil pan 4 Monkey+++

    I did a quick search and found surprisingly little on here about the topic.

    Then I got to thinking about it and remember reading a really good article about the subject. I just coundn't find it again. Did some searching and eventually I found it.

    Articles: Let's Worry about a Real Threat
    From the article: (rearranged copy and paste style for clarity)

    ""The EMP created by a nuclear bomb consists of three separate pulses, called E1, E2, and E3."
    "The E1 pulse is an extremely abrupt electromagnetic shock, which makes its way into unprotected computers and electronic controls, destroying the delicate transistors."
    "The E2 pulse is similar to lightning bolts"
    "The E3 pulse creates movement of the Earth’s magnetic field. This shifting of the magnetic field induces huge currents in long electric transmission lines. The result can be the destruction of large transformers, an essential part of the electric grid." "A natural EMP, generated by solar activity, [also] generates the E3 pulse"

    The magnitude of these types of EMP are as follows:
    E3: you are talking less than a volt to a few volts per kilometer of conductor, naturally occurring EMP can last days, nuclear E3 can last hours to most of a day.
    E2: a few volts to maybe up to a few hundred volts per meter. Lasts seconds at most.
    E1: thousands, tens of thousands, hundreds of thousands, maybe even a million volts per meter, depending on distance from ground zero for a tiny fraction of a second.

    From what I have seen over the years lightning hitting in very close proximity to a vehicle does not effect them, aside from the radio where it causes lots of static for several seconds, quickly returning the radio back to normal operation. It can also over load and shut down most electronics, but they can be powered back up seemingly with no ill effect. Electronics powered down during an E2 hit don't seem to be effected at all.

    For E3, or the solar storm the worst case scenario is:
    Solar storm of 1859 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    Anything not connected to the power grid should not be effected by E3.
    NASA says there is something like a 14% chance of this happening ever 11 years. (couldn't find the article for this one)

    Also I have seen talk of putting electronics in metal containers and there seems to be a lot of misunderstanding as to how this works. Well problem is metal containers are conductive, if there is no earth ground on the container then the EMP will pass straight through the metal walls only losing energy reflected by the metal, which wont be enough to protect anything from E1.
    If there isn't an earth ground then the container isn't protecting anything. If you have a faraday cage that isn't grounded then all you have is a fancy bug proof, high air flow box.

    Also see Starfish Prime - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia for real world tests.

    I was going to type a lot more but my laptop battery is about to die and didn't bring the charger so I need to shuter down.
     
    Last edited: Sep 15, 2017
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  2. ghrit

    ghrit Bad company Administrator Founding Member

    We have quite a bit on EMP. Do a site search on "Faraday", that should turn some up.
     
  3. Yard Dart

    Yard Dart Vigilant Monkey Moderator

    Tags have been updated.... you should now see plenty of threads at the bottom of this thread referencing the Tags noted. The search tool works well if you use common key words.
     
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  4. arleigh

    arleigh Goophy monkey

    The faraday cage /box is only a distract-ant something which the magnetic charge becoming electricity,hitting metal, can travel.
    True it travels the inside and outside of the metal surfaces of the box, but with in the box that magnetic field is significantly weaker, and electronic gear insulated from the insides of the box will not be effected (in theory).
    There is an argument as to grounding . mine is this.
    Mass equals attraction. the larger the mass the greater the attraction ,equally vise versa.
    Those things of great mass need significant grounding ,but something of insignificant mass may not need any, all things being relative to the intensity/proximity of the blast.
    A "Carington event" may be more intense due to how long the wave continues both in building and diminishing in strength.
    In any case no matter how it's poo pooed , it is a margin of safety that is better then doing nothing.
    Much like prepping,
    Ya nothing may happen and the stock pile of food is there for the next generation to rotate through, nothing needs to be wasted.
    On the other hand those of us that did prepare , and did make a faraday cage have the comfort of falling back on our investments when time get thin, like now for me during retirement.
    Several years ago there was a mass ejection from the sun, that missed the earth by only 2 weeks .
     
  5. Ganado

    Ganado Monkey+++

    There is the sun and then there us...pole shift......
     
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  6. oil pan 4

    oil pan 4 Monkey+++

    There was a CME towards the end of 2015 that almost hit earth.
     
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  7. Salted Weapon

    Salted Weapon West Coast Monkey

    I get Nasa reports an remember that it was reported to be as big as one that took out Canada eastern sea board in the 70's.
     
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  8. Asia-Off-Grid

    Asia-Off-Grid God Bless those who have served.

    Here's a stupid question. I know about grounding faraday cages and that sort. But, if you have a BOL, storage facility, or otherwise under ground location for storing critical survival items, could an EMP possibly still affect electronics / electrical items there? Or, would, due to it being "ground", cause it to be immune to EMPs?
     
  9. ghrit

    ghrit Bad company Administrator Founding Member

    Not at all stupid, there are people that think burial solves all kinds of problems, 'tain't necessarily so. Yes, EMP can affect "stuff" in buried storage, depending on the construction. If it's built like a Faraday cage ---. Underground, by itself, is not a reliable shield as can be seen with ground penetrating radar. ("Radar" is just a form of the electromagnetic radiation that is the concern with EMP.)
     
    Last edited: Jun 7, 2016
  10. arleigh

    arleigh Goophy monkey

    Truth is we live with magnetic pulses in practically every aspect of our lives.
    Motors that drive every thing, operate on magnetic pulse.
    The circle of wire embedded in the road at intersections is tied to the controller on one of the corners .
    The magnetic field your vehicles alternator/generator charging, is exciting that field .
    If I swing a magnet past one of those wires ,it believes there is a vehicle there, and will program the lights to accommodate me.
    Merely the presents of magnetism does not create this excitement, it is the movement of the field.
    As example your lawn mower engine has a magnet mounted in the flywheel, and every time it swings past a coil wound with copper wire, the moving magnetic field is passing through the wire giving it a path it did not have otherwise .
    That path is amplified by the configuration of the coil and delivers a high intensity spark igniting the fuel the engine runs on. However if I merely hold the magnet at the coil it does nothing .
    So the making of electricity takes the "movement" of the magnetic field not mere presents .
    An atomic blast magnify the intensity of both the magnetic field and the speed it is driven and that is what we are concerned with.
    The faraday cage provides an electrically charged path around the things inside which should be insulated from the interior wall of the cage . Electricity travels the serface of the wire/metal not the inside core of the metal.
     
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  11. oil pan 4

    oil pan 4 Monkey+++

    Well there are actually 2 kinds of lightning.
    Normal lightning strikes hit cars and only leaves a burn mark and no other ill effect or hits a person and they usually survive.
    A hot strike or space lightning comes from bottom of the thermosphere. Vehicles hit by hot strike tend to have all the electronics fried, tires blown out, homes get the same effect minus the tires, unless you live in a trailer. People hit by a hot strike look like they climbed up a residential over head power pole and fried them selves.
    The good new is less than 1% of lighning are hot strikes.
    Taku, what you describe is a hot stike of pretty epic proportions.

    Also putting a bucket full of electronics in a shallow grave isn't going to protect them very much if at all.
    Unless you happen to have very conductive soil, such that the EMP would need to happen during a rain storm or while the ground is still spongy after a rain. Or the electronics might as well be on your kitchen table.
    Achieving a proper earth ground is done by driving metal rods into the ground 8 feed deep at a distance of I believe 6 feet apart there should be less than 25 ohms of resistance between them, then you know you have a proper earth ground. If you have greater than 25 ohms, drive the rods in deeper or add another rod.
    In new mexico I had 300 ohms of resistance between the water pipe and home earth ground and they pass with in 3 feet of each other and the water pipe is buried 3 feet. I drove another ground rod in 3 feet away from the existing one and still had infinite resistance at 4 feet. That goes to show how good of a ground the ground can be.

    Here is a simple experiment you can do. Dig a hole, as you would to bury electronics, take a cell phone, make a call to some one, bury the phone. If the phone call stays active and does not drop then you know burying electronics is pretty much a waste of time. Don't have cell service then try burying a battery powered radio, turn it up if you can still here it well you know what that means chances are you will bury it too deep to hear before it loses signal. If a cell phone signal can get in and out of the dirt or a radio can get a signal you know anything can get in.

    I just started to test electronics with EMI generator I bought just before I left. It turns out most electronics are pretty well shielded. The only things adversely effected by it were my cheap digital camera and other very cheap consumer electronics. My newish Samsung phone doesn't seem to notice it. The effective range on unshielded electronics was much greater than I expected.
     
    Last edited: Jun 7, 2016
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  12. arleigh

    arleigh Goophy monkey

    That's good to know.
     
  13. oil pan 4

    oil pan 4 Monkey+++

    Is you stuff EMP proof?
    Test it.
    Home made EMP gun. Probably not FCC approved.


    Mine is bigger. A lot bigger.
     
    Last edited: Sep 3, 2017
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  14. oil pan 4

    oil pan 4 Monkey+++

    This latest solar storm induced a charge of less than 1v per km. So we are talking something like 0.001v per meter.
    Anything near over head power lines will have more charge induced on it. Anything under a thunder storm will also see more charge.
    The only precaution you need to take to protect something from solar EMP is to unplug it.
     
  15. DKR

    DKR Interesting ideas, interesting stories

    March 1989 geomagnetic storm
    March 1989 geomagnetic storm - Wikipedia

    he variations in the earth's magnetic field also tripped circuit breakers on Hydro-Québec's power grid. The utility's very long transmission lines and the fact that most of Quebec sits on a large rock shield prevented current flowing through the earth, finding a less resistant path along the 735 kV power lines.

    The James Bay network went offline in less than 90 seconds, giving Quebec its second massive blackout in 11 months.
    The power failure lasted nine hours and forced the company to implement various mitigation strategies, including raising the trip level, installing series compensation on ultra high voltage lines and upgrading various monitoring and operational procedures. Other utilities in North America and Northern Europe and elsewhere implemented programs to reduce the risks associated with geomagnetically induced currents.

    A unique set of circumstances at a very limited geographic area. (Yawn)

     
    Last edited: Oct 14, 2017
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  16. arleigh

    arleigh Goophy monkey

    I was at Taco Bell the other day and got one of the burritos and of course does in a foil /paper wrap.
    Sitting with a friend I did an experiment for fun, and wrapped my cell phone, and had my friend try to call me, and the foil / paper wrap sufficiently shielded the phone.
    Not that I expect that cell sites will survive ,but that data stored in the phone and picture taking ability would remain .
    The foil it's self is not enough but the paper insulated from the foil so there is no transfer of energy to the item inside.
    A thought , having foil in your EDC bag for electronics , in the event it happen while your out and about and can't get home in time to put things in safety at least there's a chance you can save something.
     
  17. Tully Mars

    Tully Mars Metal weldin' monkey

    Tactical Wheelbarrow-Check
    Tactikat and/or Attack Trained Chihuahua-with Surgically Altered Stealth Transmission Alert-Check
    Burrito with Milspec EMP Resistant Foil Shielding-Check

    KPA Bring it!!;)
     
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  18. BTPost

    BTPost Old Fart Snow Monkey Moderator

    I always liked the Metalized Mylar Bags with the Interlocking ZipLock Zippers.... Works good as long as the Metallization is uniform and at least 10 Microns thick....
     
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  19. DKR

    DKR Interesting ideas, interesting stories

    Series 4, Episode #5



    EMP vs das auto.....

    as apposed the fake "Future Weapons 'EMP test'. Which White Sands management has described as 'staged' that is - fake.
     
  20. oil pan 4

    oil pan 4 Monkey+++

    The next generation of cell phones, 5G are going to have direct phone to phone communication built into them. But it only works for 500 feet or so.
    It's supposed to relieve 1 to 3% of cell traffic at times of unusually high demand, like when a sporting event or concert ends.
     
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