Failing infrastructure

Discussion in 'Back to Basics' started by oil pan 4, Jan 31, 2019.


  1. DKR

    DKR Raconteur of the first stripe

    There is a 'wood stove war' ongoing in Fairbanks that last few years.

    The EPA has insisted the Borough "do something' particulate pollution caused by inversions trapping wood smoke close to the ground.

    Fairbanks Homeowners Find New EPA Wood Stove Ban Unreasonable

    Fairbanks Borough mayor: Few are complying with burn bans

    .I think this is where a well-made rocket mass heater would be the ticket as no smoke is produced.

    Here is a video for our visitors

     
  2. oil pan 4

    oil pan 4 Monkey+++

    They want people to switch from potentially free wood heating to fuel oil.
    Fuel oil is the most expensive heating source. Well propane and fuel oil, they are usually neck and neck for the #1 spot.

    Propane and fuel oil are ok for backup heat or convenience heating that is fairly infrequent. I wouldn't want to heat my house with it.
     
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  3. ghrit

    ghrit Bad company Administrator Founding Member

    I would argue that electric heat is far more expensive than burning anything on site. YMMV.
     
  4. oil pan 4

    oil pan 4 Monkey+++

    It depends.
    Here powering a resistance heater costs between 9 and 10 cents per 3,412BTUs.

    For a propane heater:
    96,100 BTUs per gallon of propane.
    A gallon of propane is $2.
    That means there are 26.8kwh in a gallon of propane.
    200 pennies divided by 26.8 gives 7.4 cents per kwh. So propane is a little cheaper.
    But a heat pump is much cheaper than propane as long as the resistance heater doesn't come on.
     
  5. Cruisin Sloth

    Cruisin Sloth Special & Slow

    BUT you forgot the conversion of loss and mechanical transfer of that
    LPG is 82% of Petrol or as yanks call it Gas , REAL name is Benzine
    Figure more dude ,,
    Im not @oil pan 4



    Edit , Math is off , 100% is a dream !!

    Smile & agree ,,
    many voted for them
     
    Last edited: Feb 6, 2019
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  6. oil pan 4

    oil pan 4 Monkey+++

    My propane heater is 100% efficient.

    I didn't forget any conversations.
    Gasoline is around 125,000 BTUs per gallon, propane is 96,100.
    I use a 100% efficient heater, I looked up the correct numbers for the fuel. There is nothing to convert.

    One of my 100% efficient propane heaters, about half way down the page.
    Bulk propane
     
    Last edited: Feb 3, 2019
  7. duane

    duane Monkey+++

    The way I read the EPA rules, your stove has to have an EPA plate showing that the style has been tested and past engineering approval. No matter how efficient it may be, I expect it will be almost impossible for an individual to build and operate a wood stove as the rules exist. If the greens get in after 2020 or so, it may be impossible. They want your guns, old trucks, old stoves. old inefficient houses, home grown food, and the list goes on. THEY have to protect us and only they know what is safe.
     
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  8. arleigh

    arleigh Goophy monkey

    So I make a catastrophic perverter( catalytic converter) for my wood stove.
     
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  9. oil pan 4

    oil pan 4 Monkey+++

    I found what I believe is a catalytic converter from some type of heater from the scrap yard. I just need to test it out.
     
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  10. VisuTrac

    VisuTrac Ваша мать носит военные ботинки Site Supporter+++

    I'm going to continue to put smoke particles into the air. They burn leaves in the fall, I'll burn wood in the winter.
    And as a benefit. I'm carbon neutral. trees use carbon dioxide that I release to grow nice and big, releasing oxygen. I later chop them down and release carbon dioxide for more trees to grow.
    That's if you don't include the gas for the saw and oil for the bar. ;)
     
  11. oil pan 4

    oil pan 4 Monkey+++

    Unless you dig up the roots and burn then it's carbon sequestering.
     
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  12. aardbewoner

    aardbewoner judge a human on how he act,not on look and talk.

    You have to consume TAXED fuel that can be (easy) measured,gallon,Kw/h And not some free stuff.
    And going electric is a illusion there are not enough powerplants and not enough cables to transport it .And the cost to bring it to rural places.
    example cost to generate 1 Kw/h electricity is approx 3,4 ct the want to make some profit so make it 5 ct the transport cost (cables,trafo,losses) 5ct more YOU pay 25 ct why ? TAXES.
     
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  13. oil pan 4

    oil pan 4 Monkey+++

    Everytime it gets unusually cold it's obvious the power grid and natural gas network can't provide heat to everyone.
     
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  14. arleigh

    arleigh Goophy monkey

    I make heat simply processing the wood .
     
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  15. oil pan 4

    oil pan 4 Monkey+++

    This morning I had lots of problems with it input phase loss on inverter drives. At first the biggest motors dropped out due to transistor over temps, probably a transistor over heating trying to stabilize the input power. Then it turned into input phase losses all over the plant.
    It didn't appear to be a full phase loss just surges, under voltage ect.
    I checked the switching panels because they have surge counters on them.
    They were counting between 25 and 35 surges. They get reset about the first of the month by the electrical engineer and normally have less than 10 surges.
    Space weather ruled out, as I just watched todays S0 about 2 minutes before it all started.
    Probably crumbling electrical infrastructure.
     
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  16. arleigh

    arleigh Goophy monkey

    Bear mountain ski area has their own substation because of the amount of energy we consume making snow.
    We constantly have to monitor the energy being used in town as well and we dare not create an issue .
    The snow summit ski facility generates their own power diesel engine generators, however EPA requirements are making that a problem as well.
    Municipalities don't like independent power, solar is one of them too. they loose money so they work against those that compete.
    Though I am on solar and on the grid as well just to keep every one happy. How would you like a $4. electric bill for the month ?
    Life's tough.
    I digress, big consumers of power can and should provide them self alternate power sources for 2 reasons .
    1, they have it when the grid is down,
    2. they would not share the problems of fluctuation at peak transitions .
    IMO it makes sense to provide one's own infrastructure .
    If a house is built with this in mind, chance are they won't need it.
    Any thing you do out of the ordinary requires more personal attention ,like battery solar .
    This takes some personal investment ,not just in money, but education and maintenance . a failure in modern society .
    I have relatives that are smarter than i and have a significant income but know nothing about solar except cost of building.
    My results are to enough to spur a change.
    I feel that I am the only "survivalist" among them.
     
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  17. oil pan 4

    oil pan 4 Monkey+++

    But can you use your solar when the grid power goes out?
     
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  18. arleigh

    arleigh Goophy monkey

    I am adding panels and batteries soon but now ,but if the grid goes down I only need the generator for welders and refrigeration. I have a propane gas refrigerator to fall back on as well as some smaller DC refrigerators primarily for sensitive medicines my friend needs which whom also needs dialysis every other day . Grid down that game is out of the question.
    Unless you have training, a dialysis machine, replacement filters, and a clean room to operate in, life get's real complicated.
    Take care of your bodies ,
     
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  19. oil pan 4

    oil pan 4 Monkey+++

    I'm just going to get a sunny boy SPS serries grid tie. It's claim to fame is that it is the only grid tie inverter that can supply 120v AC power with out batteries when the grid power is out.
    But the sun has to be up for it to work in stand alone mode.
     
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  20. Cruisin Sloth

    Cruisin Sloth Special & Slow

    Last edited: Feb 18, 2019
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