Fire pump

Discussion in 'General Survival and Preparedness' started by Airtime, Nov 8, 2012.


  1. Airtime

    Airtime Monkey+++ Site Supporter

    I think prepping should try to cover as many situations as feasible and many of those are not SHTF. I live in the country and we do have a good VFD but I can't let go of a time as a kid when a simple little grass fire threatened a neighbor's barn. He stretched the garden hose from the house as far as he could but couldn't reach quite far enough and a small fire turned into a big one for lack of 50 feet of crummy hose. I lost my own barn a few years ago from lightening (too involved when we noticed it). So....

    I have a good sized pond and have been pondering getting a higher pressure fire pump and several hundred feet of hose. I can also use it to irrigate the fruit trees and garden. I've seen the ones in the Northern Tool catalog. Any one have experience with something that could feed an inch or inch and a half hose? Any recommendations? Any cautions or wisdom I would benefit from?

    Thanks.
    AT
     
  2. fedorthedog

    fedorthedog Monkey++

    I have an 8000 gph irrigation pump and lots of hose, It does not take a lot to kill a small fire. The hose is easy to find when it is surplussed bu a local fd. The nozzle will cost and arm and a leg. Currently variable nozzles are 750 to 1000.
     
  3. BTPost

    BTPost Old Fart Snow Monkey Moderator

    The same maybe true for nozzles.... Check with the local Fire Chief.... I see the around on old Fire Trucks that get surplused.... Also there ARE Plastic Ones that fit on Fire Hoses and have the Same Thread....
     
    chelloveck likes this.
  4. KAS

    KAS Monkey++

    make a fire nozzle all u need is an addapter from fire hose thread to npt the all it is ,is a matter of bushings and fittings necking it down to the size you need ...

    also i dont know what kinda pressure u are taling about but i may be able to cut the fitting off of the fire hose and then just put your own on using a banding tool or a few hose clamps ... then use what ever threads is easly available to you.. BUT THIS DOES DEPEND ON PRESSURE...
     
  5. KAS

    KAS Monkey++

    also with a smaller fire pump make sure you do some good reasurch on how far the pump will pump and what your pressure will be when u get it there .... you may be better of with a cistern {not sure on spellin} or a pond closer...

    maybee even a feeder pump to feed your fire pump so u still have good pressure a good way away...
     
    chelloveck likes this.
  6. oldawg

    oldawg Monkey+++

    A quick trip to e-bay shows a slew of nozzels from fixed to adjustable from 9.00 to 70.00 bucks.Used hose cheap too.Around here we use a GOOD grade of 3/4 rubber hose in 100' lengths with quick couplers. These rigs easily handle 60-70+ lbs.pressure and the hose can be used in other apps.as well. Pumps in these pressure ranges are all over the place used and not that expensive new.Matching the volume of the pump to the nozzle you choose is the trick. Watched a still running and pumping six wheel tanker with a 1200 gal.res. go for 1800.00 at auction a couple years ago if you need that much capacity.It also had onboard 3 inch suction pump for resupply.I should add that it's as much about pressure and pattern as volume.Knowing how to use it is the most important part.Talk to one of your vfd fireman that has been through his hydraulics training and you'll learn a fortune in knowledge in about a half hour.Farmers/ranchers have been building their own rigs for a century.Peace of mind just isn't that expensive.It's the knowledge and practice that gets it done as much as the equipment.
     
    chelloveck likes this.
  7. oldawg

    oldawg Monkey+++

    Went out and checked the burst pressure on my hose and its 325psi for 39.00 a hundred not counting my screw on quick connects.
     
  8. KAS

    KAS Monkey++

    have u ever tested 325 psi on quick connects??? wen u say quick connects are u talikng about camlock fittings ?
    also what are you diing with these hoses?
     
  9. oldawg

    oldawg Monkey+++

    No KAS I haven't tested them at 325 that's just the rating.They are ball lock connects but brass not steel.My hydraulic connectors of the same type are rated at 2200psi but of course steel and used on power packs and log splitter.My fire set up is a two stage peerless with a regulated pressure of 90psi on a 1/2 inch choke but I don't know what gph I use. My portable tank is 125 gal. and last a while but only had to use it on one brush fire so far(hopefully the only fire it will ever be used on) and it lasted TIL the fire was out and still had some left.The hoses are used for about everything around here including the garden.I do keep them stored out of the sun and air pressure cleared in the winter.Might mention that I spent quiet a few years as a field service and shop equipment mechanic hydraulics included. What Airtime was asking about was an economical home based fire apparatus that would do the job based on what he indicated was his fresh water supply. Lot of ways to safely do that with some high flow, some lower flow with higher than household supply pressures.But to ease your mind there are cam-lock fittings out there in npt thread that run 25.00 or less that could be hose barbed and compression banded to a hose of your choice.
     
    KAS likes this.
  10. ColtCarbine

    ColtCarbine Monkey+++ Founding Member

    Also check out Grainger's catalog, they have decent prices. They have an online catalog and hopefully a store front in your area. The customer service I've had from Grainger has been good, as a contractor and homeowner.

    As far as nozzles go; you can get plastic industrial fog nozzles for about $20-$40 depending on size, brass industrial fog nozzles for under $200 or get NFPA approved fire hose nozzles for considerably more. You will pay more $$$ for a NFPA approved fire nozzle over a UL Listed Industrial nozzle. The UL Listed would probably suite your needs, if you can not shell out the money for the good stuff. The NFPA stuff is going to be more rugged and last considerably longer than the UL Listed. They are made to stricter standards for professional use, if you have the money you would never out live the nozzle, I'm betting.

    Just make sure to have a spare nozzle for backup, if you don't have almost a $1000 to fork over. There are quite a few different types and manufacturer's out there, not so sure I'd get plastic one's but everybody's budget is different, so thought I'd mention them. However, I have seen and used the plastic one's used in an industrial environment and they work and get the job done without breaking the bank. Make sure to look at the nozzles performance (function) does it go from a full stream to a fog.

    The same will apply to the price of fire hose also, in regards to NFPA standards. However, besides that the construction of the hose, the material (product) it is made of, whether it has a liner, what type of liner and the materials used for the hose connections will all factor into the cost of your hose. There are so many variations that you will have to try and match your budget, how long will it last, what your needs are and how heavy of a hose do you want to pack around.

    Fire Hoses - Fire Protection - Grainger Industrial Supply

    VIPER Hose Nozzle, Alum, 1 1/2 NST, 20-90 GPM - Fire Hose Nozzles - 4YLK7|1590-20 - Grainger Industrial Supply

    4YLK7_AS01?$productdetail$

    MOON AMERICAN Nozzle, Fog, 1-1/2 In - Industrial and Fire Hose Nozzles - 4KR34|517-151 - Grainger Industrial Supply

    4KR33_AS01?$productdetail$


    GRAINGER APPROVED VENDOR Hose Nozzle, Bronze, 1-1/2 In NPSH - Industrial and Fire Hose Nozzles - 6AKC1|6AKC1 - Grainger Industrial Supply


    6AKC1_AS01?$productdetail$

    MOON AMERICAN FireHoseNozzle, Pistol-Grip, Alum, 1.5in NH - Industrial and Fire Hose Nozzles - 6APT5|512P-1524 - Grainger Industrial Supply

    6APT4_AS01?$productdetail$
    4YLK7_AS01?$productdetail$ 4KR33_AS01?$productdetail$ 6AKC1_AS01?$productdetail$ 6APT4_AS01?$productdetail$
     
    chelloveck, oldawg and BTPost like this.
  11. BTPost

    BTPost Old Fart Snow Monkey Moderator

    Our water is provided by a 2 MilUSG Res, with 300' Vertical Head, and a 1.5 Mil USG Res. at 120' Vertical Head, as a Pressure Regulating Res. We have the Red Plastic Hose Nozzles, here at the Cannery, and the Fire Marshal approves them for our in-Plant Fire Protection System, since we have no local FD, and have to do that ourselves. They work just fine, for our purposes, and we practice with them twice a year, as stated in our OSHA Plan Document.... .... YMMV...
     
  12. KAS

    KAS Monkey++

    wow some good info on this subject... give me your adress and ill mail u a nozzle from my next job....
    Funny this conversation was started this mornig and this afternoo i drove past a tank truck with fire pump and the hole nine yards already on it...
     
  13. Airtime

    Airtime Monkey+++ Site Supporter

    So to provide a bit more calibration as to what I'm thinking. These are the Northern Tool pumps that got me thinking about doing this 5-6 years ago and I have kept putting it off.

    NorthStar High-Pressure Water Pump — 2in. Ports, 8120 GPH, 94 PSI, 160cc Honda GX160 Engine | High Pressure| Northern Tool + Equipment
    NorthStar High-Pressure Water Pump — 3in. Ports, 10,550 GPH, 116 PSI, 270cc Honda GX270 Engine | High Pressure| Northern Tool + Equipment
    Endurance Marine Fire Fighting System — 1 1/2in. Ports, 3600 GPH, 100 PSI, 205cc Briggs & Stratton Engine, Model# EFP1.5HBS | High Pressure| Northern Tool + Equipment

    I was fishing to hear things like, oh yeah, bought one of those greatest thing I ever did. Or oh, crap, run Forest run from that model and get this. Theses were the problems I had. Or, oh yeah I did something like that and here is what I found and here are the lessons I learned the hard way about _____ (insert whatever like the steel pump, engine, fire hose, nozzle, etc.) Or go look here for this kind of salvage and you can get a great pump for 5 bucks (yeah, I'm dreaming but I bought just one lotto ticket yesterday which I haven't done in 5 years or more so I could dream. I got a buck's worth of entertainment from it).

    Pressure drop due to elevation changes is a bit less that half a PSI per foot of elevation change so maybe 15 psi loss from farm pond to house due to it being higher, not huge. Will need to match a nozzle to the pump pressure-flow curve so the pressure remains high enough to spray but flows enough to not overload the pump and provides enough water but we'll figure that out easy enough. Will there be pressure drop in the hose, yeah but if I use inch and a half hose I think that will be good enough and I'll do a bit more research and maybe inch will work. I may have some NFPA data somewhere. Used to go to their conventions as the company I consulted for did water tank corrosion survey work and exhibited at the annual NFPA show.

    So, some good ideas and you just got me thinkin. Keep it up (thinking).
    Thanks.

    AT
     
  14. KAS

    KAS Monkey++

    there is a ship breaking yard in brownsville texas im pretty sure they have a website ... chekc here for salvaged fire pumps from ships or tuges !!! please keep me posted on what u do ... il let u know what i come up with !!!
     
    oldawg likes this.
  15. Illini Warrior

    Illini Warrior Monkey+

    you need to think about feeding the pump out of your pond ..... tossing a feed hose from shore will be pulling bottom muck ... a prepared stand pipe reaching out and pulling water from 12-24 inches below the surface would be beneficial in the longrun .....
     
  16. ghrit

    ghrit Ambulatory anachronism Administrator Founding Member

    Don't forget priming and freezing.
     
  17. kellory

    kellory An unemployed Jester, is nobody's fool. Banned

    Rig a float for the feed line to the pond. That will keep the intake near the surface. No mud.
     
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