Fukashima Update! "Nothing to see here, move along!"

Discussion in 'Politics' started by Gopherman, Aug 11, 2014.


  1. NotSoSneaky

    NotSoSneaky former supporter

    I'm a little behind on nuclear physics.
    Curious; What's the half-life on the dispersal & fallout ?
    Could this be a 100,000 year duration ?
     
  2. ghrit

    ghrit Bad company Administrator Founding Member

    Half life is (of course) dependent on the nuclide. There are statistical means of determining a half life of a mixture of isotopes (which is behind your question and a fact of life in nuclear physics) but that requires knowing the proportion of each isotope in the mix.

    Dispersal is strictly controlled by weather or some other means of carrying the material. Without transport, any danger is very localized.

    100,000 years? Well, yes, with the usual "it depends" attached. There are some extremely stable isotopes that will last that long (and way longer, statistically) but the concentration determines the danger. Radioactive decay is a statistics animal, there's no way to say which atom is going to decay at any given time, but you can say how many will decay in the aggregate. Half life is derived from the analysis of how the material behaves in "large" quantities. As you clearly know, half life is the amount of time that it takes for half of the total number of unstable atoms to decay. That means something when dealing with large quantities, but is meaningless if you are looking at a "few" atoms.

    Those are the direct and specific answers to your questions. Obviously, there's more to it, and I'm willing to go a bit deeper on the subject if needed. I can suggest a text book or two that have a far more detailed explanation than I can give on the forum.
     
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  3. Gopherman

    Gopherman Sometimes I Wish I Could Go Back to Sleep

    OK,"Live paranoia trumps dead bravado, every time."
    I totally agree with this statement.
    How many times have we heard "There's nothing to worry about!" and it turned out there was plenty.
    If I have a glass of water, and I put a drop of poison in it, and I take a sip, I may survive! The next day I put another drop of poison in the same glass and take another sip, I may survive!
    How long until the amount of poison in the glass reaches levels that are un-survivable or the poison builds up in my body over time?
    When we look at the Earth images from space, the world really doesn't look that big and the glass of water doesn't either!
    This is what is really worrisome and recent!
    TEPCO ready to release radiation, not information, during Fukushima crisis - AJW by The Asahi Shimbun
     
    Last edited: Aug 16, 2014
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  4. Brokor

    Brokor Live Free or Cry Moderator Site Supporter+++ Founding Member

    We may never know the full extent of damage caused by Fukushima to our oceans and environment. Typically, there is BIG money in cleanup for these catastrophe's, not just in the actual physical cleaning, I am talking mostly about information and supplying the "right experts" to make all the announcements, fund the right research, get overwhelming approval from the community and just go on with life as though nothing is out of place.

    It doesn't take a genius to figure out the levels of radiation from Fukushima are harmful. We know the water used there isn't being disposed of properly. We know the Japanese officials have raised the "safe level" amount to absurdity, and we know the oceans may take a very long time to spring back. Meanwhile, do you trust the seafood? Do you?

    With the number of oil spills and now nuclear contamination, I am surprised at how resilient nature can be. Sure, it's not the end of the world, but it definitely isn't pretty what's going on to cover all this up.
     
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  5. Gopherman

    Gopherman Sometimes I Wish I Could Go Back to Sleep

    I live on the Gulf Coast and there are still tar balls washing up on the beaches, It's insane the amount of Dispersant that was spread over the spill to get it to sink like that, it far exceeded what the norm used to be, and People were freaking out, BUT, "Don't worry about it , everything's fine!".
    Sooner or later this is gonna catch up in the ocean, and resilience only applies if there are organisms left to repopulate. Their are article that have been published saying that the Plankton is irradiated all the way to Hawaii,
    Here is a very interesting article as well
    How Is Fukushima's Fallout Affecting Marine Life? : Oceanus Magazine
     
  6. BTPost

    BTPost Stumpy Old Fart Snow Monkey Moderator

    I have NO IDEA who came up with that Map, but if 3000 RADs were True, there would be NO ONE, left on ANY of the Islands in the Alaska Chain, to the west, toward Japan. Adak, Attu, Shimia, would be Ghost Towns, which they are not, and the bodies would be rotting in the Summer Sun, which they are not. 99% of the Radiation still leaking from the Plant, is coming from the Sea Water still being pumped into the Plant, to cool the Spent Fuel Packs, and the Cracked Cores. Since there is no longer any Fission happening, and only the Cracked Cores, had their Cladding degrade, there isn't a lot of Fission Products in that water, any more. The 1/2 life of most of the Cesium products that were released, has dropped much of the Radiation from those, initially released, down toward Background Levels, as well as diluting those in the Ocean Water between Japan, and Alaska. We have had numerous Research Vessels, transit out to the Ocean, from Cape Spencer, this summer, looking for just the Disaster Senerio, Speculated above. So far they aren't finding much, of anything, above a very minor bump, above Background Radiation Levels. ALWAYS remember that ANY Fools, can post CRAP, on the Internet, but you do NOT see Gloom and Doom Published Reports from the Big Boys, like Scripts, Wood Hole, and NOAA, who actually get PAID to check this kind of thing out. These Yahoos, from Canada, are publishing their findings, but they are NOT, as of yet, able to explain Exactly How, their findings, came to be, and they make a WHOLE SLEW of Assumptions, that they have no way of proving, simply because they have NO DATA, of what was at these Collections Sites BEFORE the Fukushima Accident. They are ASSUMING, that these sites were Clean, BEFORE, and that in itself, is a MAJOR Flaw in their Published Reports. One would expect, if Fukashima, was the cause, that the results could be found, evenly distributed over the whole West Coast of North America. So far that has NOT been the case. Their findings are very limited, to a couple of isolated Collection Sites, and when they sampled other Sites, in the local, and Regional Area, they found NOTHING, except what we would expect, very slight uptick, in BackGround Radiation Levels. It is just like the Radiation found down on the Kommiefornia Beach, that made NEWS, After Fukushima, except they forgot about the US Navy dumping Radiological CRAP, a few miles off that coastline, back in the 50's..... Duh... It is all about FACTS, not speculation, or assumptions, and careful Analysis of those FACTS, in context, with KNOWN History of each AREA, of each Collection Site.
     
  7. Gopherman

    Gopherman Sometimes I Wish I Could Go Back to Sleep

    take a look at the original prevailing winds and projections from Chernobyl, and this is with time to really look at what happened behind it.
    They were Russians and still released more info than were getting from our Allies the Japanese!
    Our own Gov. will not say whats really going on , they could not handle the panic that would ensue!
    I found this Comparison of Fukashima Versus Chernobyl to much Greek Salad for me some of you brainiac's could probably make more sense out of it than me.
    Extended Fukushima Fallout Maps – Sept 29 MEXT Release. Fukushima vs. Chernobyl – 2 | Not All Alleged Is Apparent…
    [​IMG]
     
  8. Brokor

    Brokor Live Free or Cry Moderator Site Supporter+++ Founding Member

    No @Gopherman the thing you must remember is that radiation is GOOD for us, it makes us stronger, like the Incredible Hulk. In fact, the earth can absorb all the radiation of any catastrophe instantly, and the oceans will magically purify all the radiation, stealing it away from our bones, which desperately need radioactive isotopes to permit our final growth stage into transcendence where we can attain a pure energy state and live like gods in perpetuity.

    (yes, that was sarcasm)
     
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  9. BTPost

    BTPost Stumpy Old Fart Snow Monkey Moderator

    When are you going to remember that Chernoble was a MASSIVE Release of Fissionable Materials, and Fission Products, because the Graphite Pile ACTUALLY BURNED, (Fire) and released ALL the Fission Products, directly into the Atmosphere. Fukashima was a totally different Senerio, where 90% of the Fission Products, are STILL contained Inside the Damaged Cores, and Spent Cores at the Plant. You are comparing Apples and Oranges, here.... Two totally different Issues, and two totally different Senerios.... About the only thing they have in common, is that there was a release of Fission Products, in both places, but the amount, of those releases, are Orders of Magnitude in difference.
     
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  10. Brokor

    Brokor Live Free or Cry Moderator Site Supporter+++ Founding Member

    Yup, perfectly harmless stuff. Burned away, got swept away by mother nature's loving milk. Only the cores are bad, with them being constantly tended to and the water runoff cleansed by magical gnomes underground, I am sure we can have this whole thing tidy in no time!
     
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  11. HK_User

    HK_User A Productive Monkey is a Happy Monkey Site Supporter

    But, but, Bu... sputter...

    I thought the The Chernobyl Nuclear Power Plant sarcophagus or Shelter Object (Ukrainian: Об'єкт "Укриття") the massive steel and concrete structure covering the nuclear reactor #4 building of the Chernobyl Nuclear Power Plant is falling down?

    Even if it is designed to limit radioactive contamination of the environment.

    And it is falling apart with all those bad nasties leaking out.

    But I do understand there are some great Antlers on the deer, they glow in the dark, nice way to light your russian man cave.

    Never mind that a new, bigger and better Chernobyl Nuclear Power Plant sarcophagus is being planned!

    Just more Russians buried in lead lined coffins as Heros of the STATE.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 26, 2015
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  12. Gopherman

    Gopherman Sometimes I Wish I Could Go Back to Sleep

    [lolol][ROFL]
     
  13. Gopherman

    Gopherman Sometimes I Wish I Could Go Back to Sleep

    My whole point in this post is to make people aware they were getting ready to dump 100's of millions of gallons of polluted water in the ocean on top of the 30+ million a day there already doing! Oh yeah, and all the ground water from the core burning through the concrete containment base (all info. that has been admitted to).
    Here is a small ex-cert '

    Though the mainstream media has long since abandoned the issue, the precarious situation at the Fukushima Daiichi nuclear power facility in Japan is only continuing to worsen, according to a prominent Japanese official. During a recent interview, Mitsuhei Murata, the former Japanese Ambassador to both Switzerland and Senegal, explained that the ground beneath the plant’s Unit 4 is gradually sinking, and that the entire structure is very likely on the verge of complete collapse.

    This is highly concerning, as Unit 4 currently holds more than 1,500 spent nuclear fuel rods, and a collective 37 million curies of deadly radiation that, if released, could make much of the world completely uninhabitable. As some Natural News readers will recall, Unit 4 contains the infamous elevated cooling pool that was severely damaged following the catastrophic earthquake and tsunami that struck on March 11, 2011.
    Complete article can be read here;
    FUKUSHIMA UPDATE | Ground under Fukushima Unit 4 sinking, structure on verge of complete collapse

    What BT say's may be true, however, how can you even make that statement with everyone from TEPCO, the Japanese Gov. , The US Gov. as well the MSMedia, suppressing Information.
    This thing has been a Joke from the from the very beginning!
    I personally think this situation is worse than Chernobyl!
    Regardless of whats being Burned, the Russians at least superficially contained it for the meantime, TEPCO doesn't even know where to start!!
    If the Citizens of Japan, the same people who gladly flew Kamikaze Missions, and considered their Imperial Leader a God, are getting scared and pissed, it's definitely time to worry!
    And as to the "This Stuff Ain't That Bad" mentality tell it to these people ;

    Within weeks of setting off a geiger counter and scrubbing three layers of skin off his hands and arms, former Navy quartermaster Maurice Enis recalled being pressured to sign away U.S. government liability for any future health problems.

    Enis and about 5,000 fellow sailors aboard the USS Ronald Reagan aircraft carrier had finally left Japan, after 80-some days aiding victims of the March 11, 2011, Fukushima earthquake and tsunami, and were about to take a long-awaited port call in Thailand.

    But first, they were told they needed to fill out some paperwork.

    "They had us sign off that we were medically fine, had no sickness, and that we couldn't sue the U.S. government," Enis told The Huffington Post, recalling widespread anger among the sailors who saw it as "B.S." but who also felt they had little choice.

    On Monday, the two-year anniversary of the Fukushima disaster, Enis joined a lawsuit with more than 100 other service members who participated in the rescue mission and who have since developed medical issues they contend are related to radioactive fallout from the disabled Fukushima Daiichi nuclear plant. Rather than targeting the U.S. government, the federal lawsuit names plant owner Tokyo Electric Power Co. the defendant.

    TEPCO, as the company is known, provided false information to U.S. officials about the extent of spreading radiation from its stricken reactors, according to Roger Witherspoon on his blog Energy Matters.

    Among the lawsuit plaintiffs is Enis' girlfriend, Jaime Plym, who also served as a quartermaster on the aircraft carrier, a position that involves guiding the ship and spending significant time on deck. The couple had been looking forward to leaving the military and starting a family. Now, Enis said, they don't know if children will be an option due to health problems they've both developed since signing away government liability. They've both been honorably discharged from the military and don't know how they will pay for medical treatment.

    Plym has a new diagnosis of asthma and her menstrual cycle is severely out of whack. Enis has lumps on his jaw, between his eyes and on his thigh. He's also developed stomach ulcers and lung problems, and is losing weight and hair.

    There's a tradition of growing out your hair and beard after leaving the Navy, explained Enis, to make up for all the time spent with a buzzed head. He said at a press conference in New York on Monday that he's hesitant to comb or wash his head of black curls lest he speed up the loss.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 26, 2015
  14. HK_User

    HK_User A Productive Monkey is a Happy Monkey Site Supporter

    "Among the lawsuit plaintiffs is Enis' girlfriend, Jaime Plym, who also served as a quartermaster on the aircraft carrier, a position that involves guiding the ship and spending significant time on deck. "

    This part is just BS. No need for a QM to go on deck unless they just want to take in the Jet Exhaust or change signal flags. Few if any use a sextant so no job related reason to go on deck.

    The main problem is that the ship was never buttoned up for NBC.

    The Captain is the one at fault.
     
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  15. Gopherman

    Gopherman Sometimes I Wish I Could Go Back to Sleep

    Just a question, Does it matter who was at fault?
    The point I was trying to make is there is some really crazy crap spewing out of that thing. BS is a matter of opinion, if it was one of your family members, would it be so easy to distance yourself?
    Their not the only one's involved in this suit there are a whole lot more that have signed up since then.
    Toll of U.S. Sailors Devastated by Fukushima Radiation Continues to Climb

    At least 71 sailors from San Diego-based carrier have reported radiation sickness and will file a lawsuit against Tokyo Electric Power Co.
    [​IMG]
    US Navy Photo

    By Brandon Baker / EcoNews

    After U.S. Navy sailors on the USS Ronald Reagan responded to the 2011 Fukushima disaster in Japan for four days, many returned to the U.S. with thyroid cancer, Leukemia, brain tumors and more.

    UPDATE: Refiling put off due to increasing numbers of plaintiffs. Latest developments are here.

    At least 71 sailors—many in their 20s—reported radiation sickness and will file a lawsuit against Tokyo Electric Power Co. (TEPCO), which operates the Fukushima Daiichi energy plant.

    The men and women accuse TEPCO of downplaying the danger of nuclear radiation on the site. The water contaminated the ship’s supply, which led to crew members drinking, washing their bodies and brushing their teeth with contaminated water. Paul Garner, an attorney representing 51 sailors, said at least half of the 70-plus sailors have some form of cancer.

    “We’re seeing leukemia, testicular cancer and unremitting gynecological bleeding requiring transfusions and other intervention,” Garner told New York Post.

    Senior Chief Michael Sebourn, a radiation-decontamination officer assigned to test the aircraft carrier, said that radiation levels measured 300 times higher than what was considered safe at one point. Meanwhile sailors like Lindsay Cooper have contrasted their initial and subsequent feelings upon seeing and tasting metallic “radioactive snow” caused by freezing Pacific air that mixed with radioactive debris.

    Complete article link
    USS Ronald Reagan Sailors to Refile Suit For Fukushima Radiation Poisoning
     
  16. HK_User

    HK_User A Productive Monkey is a Happy Monkey Site Supporter

    Yes it does matter who is at fault.

    The idea of no one at fault is a common Lib reaction to I'm OK your OK combaya.

    Public Laws and Mil Laws are put in effect to have a way to know what is expected of those put in charge.

    Those in charge, in this case the Captain, is charged, by Mil law, with taking care of his crew. He did not follow the rules of the Mil and his lack of this needs to be brought forth to reinforce what the next Captain does.

    It's called cause and effect and responsibility of command.

    As it is the Sailors are now forced to move on their own to attempt to repair their damaged bodies and the Captin goes on with his life and command. Of course the Captain will receive what ever medical care he needs for there is two levels of care in the Mil.
     
    Last edited: Aug 17, 2014
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  17. Brokor

    Brokor Live Free or Cry Moderator Site Supporter+++ Founding Member

    I agree the situation in Japan is much, much worse than what is being reported by the corporate media, but it also isn't the doom-and-gloom portrayed by the chicken little types, either.

    It's statements such as this which immediately proves to me the writer is reaching for emotions by resorting to making bold and irrational statements. Absolutely and utterly uncalled for.

    Yes, there are a number of people who have been in harm's way with this Fukushima meltdown, and the containment is NOT entirely secure, nor will it be by the looks of it. However, we should not resort to wild speculation and fear based rhetoric to replace our ordinary unbiased judgement. We need to look at this from a level-headed perspective, and neither the placating "expert" view nor the delusional fearmonger view will suffice.
     
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  18. HK_User

    HK_User A Productive Monkey is a Happy Monkey Site Supporter

    Number one, do not assume that I have ever distanced myself from anything.

    Number two, the statment was made and an pressumpation was presented about a QM Sailor's reasons for being affected. It was BS and it is an irrational statement. My concern is that if the statement is brought into court or as it is now, used by the media, then the defendants JAG Rep will have to refute it. Disproving a statement does not remove it from the Juries mind. Thus it is a strike against the QM. Now if they would have said the Captain did not button up the ship for NBC then the QM would have only had to prove that she was onboard the carrier, it would not have mattered her job unless someone proved she did not, if required by the command, use PPE.

    The Law, gotta love it when done right.

    Been there, seen it, survied it with only scars.
     
  19. ghrit

    ghrit Bad company Administrator Founding Member

    The legal hurdles that suit is going to have to jump are daunting.
    -Prove the contamination alleged to have existed really was there, and directly as a result of the plant's accident.
    -Show that the RadCon officer didn't follow protocols in testing and survey sampling, and/or
    -Show that the command ignored "red flags" raised by the RadCon officer, if any.
    -Show that the command required them to be exposed by their duties. (And yes, QMs stand watches on weather decks.)
    -Show that the command knowingly put crew in harm's way without due regard for safety, or one damn good reason for doing so. (IMHO, this was not a war situation, so running risks is far less important than in the heat of battle.)
    -Show that those disclaimers and hold harmless "agreements" were illegal. (I suspect that someone was running scared that the Articles of Enlistment were not enough to cover the cases. In my day, the Articles did it, and in no way prevented access to the VA for service connected disabilities garnered while in service.)

    Methinks this TEPCO suit will die aborning; it is hard for me to believe that the Navy took the TEPCO statements regarding the dangers as a substitute for due diligence in assessing the risks.

    If the hold harmless "agreements" are found illegal as I suspect; the VA will be on the hook for the disabilities, and dot gov will pay out for legal fees and a small compensation for delays in assistance. All in out of court settlements in lieu of a suit against dot gov.
     
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  20. HK_User

    HK_User A Productive Monkey is a Happy Monkey Site Supporter

    Yup JAG will be busy checking each and every line as listed above.
     
    Last edited: Aug 17, 2014
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