1. The Topic of the Month for October is "Make this the Perfect Bugout Location". Please join the discussion in the TOTM forum.

Good to see you .... now go die somewhere else.

Discussion in 'General Survival and Preparedness' started by CATO, Aug 31, 2011.

  1. CATO

    CATO Monkey+++

    In addition to physical preps (i.e., food, supplies, land, etc.), mental preps (i.e., plans, lists, etc.) are equally if not more important.

    I have seen this question in various flavors with the general Rawlesian reply of "Give 'TIL it hurts" very popular. Whether or not you proscribe to this ideology is irrelevant. The point is, you should think about possible scenarios and talk them out with the people you will be staying with/hosting.

    I'm not posting the below link for opinions on what you're going to do, as I said above, they are irrelevant to the "prep" and your personal solution is not wrong, and probably not right for anyone else.

    The point is, to think about it and settle on a robust plan and stick to it. For example: passerbys - stranger --> action vs passerbys - stranger w/children --> action.

    Guest Post:
  2. dystopia

    dystopia Monkey+

    When iwas young i thought marrying a sterile orphan was a good idea, no family and she could'nt have kids. 4 kids and a bunch of whacked out inlaws later, i should have stuck to my original plan.
    STANGF150, kellory, Gafarmboy and 3 others like this.
  3. Opinionated

    Opinionated Monkey+

    I don't see things like this as being a big issue.

    "Personal responsibility"

    Do you really think it is a good idea to have ANYONE inside your perimeter that doesn't strongly believe in it? Do you think that it would be in the legitimate best interest of your group as a whole to let someone into your perimeter that doesn't strongly believe in it?

    Wouldn't someone who really does believe in personal responsibility have made some effort to be prepared to stand on their own feet should some kind of significant disaster strike?

    I dunno. Maybe I've got blinders on. But this seems a pretty simple thing to think through to me.[dunno]
    stevel, STANGF150 and beast like this.
  4. BTPost

    BTPost Old Fart Snow Monkey Moderator

    This is an interesting issue that comes up, when thinking about Prep's, SHTF Senerios, and even Disasters.... One thing that i have used in my planning for dealing with this issue is, Does the Newcomer bring anything to the table, or are they just TAKERS? Do they bring skillsets, that are not found in the group already? Are they willing to do their share of the work, as the other members of the Group? Are they "Go along to Get along" kind of folks? if the answer to any of these is NO, then down the road they go, See ya'll later..... Austa La Vesta, Baby..... .... YMMV.....
    Dogfood, dragonfly, beast and 2 others like this.
  5. Tikka

    Tikka Monkey+++

    In all fairness, do you have the time and resources to fill in all the blanks?
  6. BTPost

    BTPost Old Fart Snow Monkey Moderator

    Out here where I live, Yea.... We have time to fill in the blanks.... Not many unknown folks are going to be walking up to my Front Door..... Way to far to walk.... (250 miles to the nearest road that connects to anywhere)
    William Antrum likes this.
  7. beast

    beast backwoodsman

    only takes 5 mins to ask n get answers
    and its usually pretty easy to tell if someone actually knows what theyre talkin about
  8. VisuTrac

    VisuTrac Ваша мать носит военные ботинки Site Supporter+++

    Tough call. When the time comes we will all have to make tough decisions that will haunt us for all of our days.

    20/20 hindsight is a bitch.
  9. Opinionated

    Opinionated Monkey+

    For the sake of balance . . .

    how long does it take to storm your compound? Or at least attack it?

    How long would your "guards" have to be distracted by someone for someone else to lay the ground work to cause you security issues?

    I'm not not not . . . not . . trying to discount your opinion or your perspective. Just trying to remind all that there is more to consider simultaneously.
  10. Sapper John

    Sapper John Analog Monkey in a Digital World

    Unfortunately, Humanity and compassion will be in short supply in those days.I have no desire to see the innocent suffer,but my family will always come first.
  11. ssonb

    ssonb Confederate American

    I believe the 20\20 hindsight will be on their shoulders!!! Why should we have guilt over their inability to care for themselves..The Lord left the door of the ark open for a week so that anyone could just walk in and be spared, after it was shut and the rain started I bet there was plenty of knocks and pleas from the outside!!
  12. STANGF150

    STANGF150 Knowledge Seeker

    i'm an Ant. My Mother is an Ant, We've both been Ants. We've worked hard during the summer putting food away. Let the Grasshoppers Go Away!!! Or Else!!!! [stayback]
  13. Tikka

    Tikka Monkey+++

    I forgot how far.. LOL

    But, I can't honestly say I'd be that open minded as our preps are finite and there will be so many.

    That is for most of us; not you.. :D
    Sapper John and BTPost like this.
  14. Hickory7

    Hickory7 Monkey+

    I think this is well said. All throughout the Bible God commands us to "watch". If ppl cannot or are unwilling to see what is happening and to plan accordingly, then so be it. There are not enough preppers in the earth to take care of them all.
  15. dragonfly

    dragonfly Monkey+++

    My new policy: "Hide and peek".
    If they can't see you, can't hear you, can't smell you, they can't find you!
    When I was younger, I used to ask questions...
    Now in my old age, I no longer question.
    I don't know all the answers, and at this point in time, it is irrelevant.
    I know what I need to know, and I know how to stay safe.
    What else matters?
    Those that have failed to prepare, are doomed to failure.....
    Some by choice, others by having "tunnel vision".
    In the end, it is the Grasshoppers VS the Ants!
    BackwoodsmanUSA and Gafarmboy like this.
  16. Seawolf1090

    Seawolf1090 Adventure Riding Monkey Founding Member

    Make that "WELL-ARMED Ants vs. the ravening horde of locusts!" But in a bit of time, the hungry locusts either move on or die..... and the Ant is leftt o carry on.
    STANGF150 and Sapper John like this.
  17. chelloveck

    chelloveck Diabolus Causidicus

    Beware false dichotomies & analogies taken out of context

    Analogies, can be useful, in explaining complex concepts in ways that are more easily comprehendable, but sometimes analogies can be misleading and self deluding for those who aren't careful in their use, or who buy them without critical evaluation.

    The biblical ant and grasshopper parable points out the desireability of thrift and the prudence of putting food aside for future need, but it does so by anthropomorphising the behaviour of ants and grasshoppers as if they behave like humans in making individual sentient choices. The anology works as far as it goes, by reminding humans that good times can't be relied on to last, and that human history has shown repeatedly that hard times can come to individuals and societies with cyclical regularity. Therefore, make provision in the good times for those hard times that do eventually come, when food production will be difficult, such as drought, disease, climatic events, insect plagues etc.

    Extend an analogy beyond its immediate intention, and there is a risk that the usefulness of the analogy will become counter productive for the person who is invited to buy the validity of an analogy that is placed in a context different to the one for which the analogy was originally created.

    Let's examine the fallacies that are embedded in Seawolf's post:

    This is a false dichotomy.....it cannot be assumed that the Ants (aka preppers) will be necessarily better armed than the locusts (aka zombie biker gangs et al)....given the pervasiveness of gun ownership in the USA (yes I know not all of the monkeys live in the USA, but the majority do), it is as likely that the prepper may be faced with opponents who are not only well armed, but in some cases will be well skilled in their use as combat weapons (America's roll of ex veterans is being enlarged every year troops are deployed on active service in Afghanistan and Iraq). It cannot be assumed that every battle will go the ant's way....and that ant colonies, no matter how well they are prepared, stand the risk of oblivion, even from grasshoppers who are less well armed and less well trained than the ants...if only because numerically there are more grasshoppers than there are ants. Assuming that just being well armed will discourage or defeat the hungry horde, may be to contribute to the loss of one's own survival through over confidence and hubris.

    Another false dichotomy....it is entirely possible that the prepper (aka ants) may be defeated and die, be enslaved, or be moved along. The ant may not be allowed to "carry on" unmolested.

    Although analogies such as the parable of the ant and the grasshopper may be useful as motivators....it would be wise for the prudent prepper to move beyond simple analogies towards using reason, logic and the wealth of knowledge derived from the military arts of making operational appreciations and contingency planning.

    Having a stash of food and a stock of weapons and ammunition may not be enough in and of themselves...having the means, the methods and the motivation for dealing with situations where things go pear shaped may make the difference between surviving and not; more so than the simple belief that one identifies as the good guy in a biblical parable.
    Gafarmboy likes this.
  18. Cephus

    Cephus Monkey+++ Founding Member

    Man that is deep ,why not stop shoveling.
  19. chelloveck

    chelloveck Diabolus Causidicus

    We all learn by a free exchange of ideas

    Nothing particularly deep in what I wrote....If a particular point of view is flawed, then it is entirely appropriate to point out where the flaws are and why particular points may be flawed.

    If by shoving, you mean shoving my critique down other people's throats? Are you asking me to self-censor myself to spare the sensibilities of those who don't agree with me? If so....their sensibilities would be better spared by their choosing not to read what I have to say, thence saving themselves the intellectual effort of having to wrestle with their own thoughts as to whether what I have to say has merit or not.

    You have the right and the opportunity to counter argue what I have to say. If you feel that what I say is flawed, then bring it on and make your own critique on the issues substantive to the subject...in so doing we may all learn and refine our thinking. I can't think that sarcasm and simple nay saying contributes a great deal to the discussion.

    The ant and the grasshopper parable is a recurring theme in the prepper literature, and there is no doubt that it is an appropriate analogy in some contexts.....but where it is recruited to serve a range of other irrelevant contexts, then its usefulness is of doubtful benefit.

    Woe betide the prepper ant who has the belief that all other insects are mere grasshoppers, when what they may be actually dealing with are ant lions! : O or soldier ants better prepared and equipped, but with fewer moral inhibitions in using deadly force than the prepper ant may be.
    ditch witch likes this.
  20. wrc223

    wrc223 Monkey+

    Of course I rotate my stock but with everything I have, I occasionally miss something. Sometimes it may be a while. I commonly toss those items in my backup preps and this is the stuff i would be sharing but on a case by case basis.
    I want to be able to help people but I am not going to help everyone who passes by. There will be certain qualifications they would have to meet. Also any able bodied persons wanting a meal will first have to perform some duties earing said meal.
    I plan to help who I can but I will not do so at the expense of my family.
survivalmonkey SSL seal        survivalmonkey.com warrant canary