Good to see you .... now go die somewhere else.

Once upon a time....
Long long ago....
( not in a distant galaxy though)...
The Lone Ranger and Tonto were surrounded by a massive horde of really piffed off Indians.
The Lone Ranger turned to Tonto and asked, "Tonto what are we going to do about all those Indians"?
Tonto slowly replied, " What do you mean "WE", white man"?
Some days are like that!

 

That's funny, Cephus... apparently a good ole West Virginia expression never made it across the Pacific ! : )

 

I at our farm as a life boat. It will support my family and I maybe a couple more but if you put too many people in a life boat then you all die. So is it better to support the people you have planned for for a long time, or is it better to try and support to many people for a short time??? Best figure out your answer to that question before you need to tell others the answer.

BWM

 

Well said, Backwoodsman...

Well said, Backwoodsman....I have been thinking along the same lines for some weeks now in response to posts in this and a related thread.

It being my retreat / property....I assume responsibility of leadership (Captaincy) for all those who I permit to enter my retreat/lifeboat...that includes my immediate kin, my extended kin, friends of mine (that I deem useful for maintaining a secure and productive lifeboat / retreat) and any other random people who have skills, resources or assets that I deem suitable and necessary for a long and hazardous journey through perilous times.

There will be order and discipline on my lifeboat, and none may become crew members unless they agree to comply with

1. The constitution and such bye laws are legislated by and for the Captain and crew,

2. Acknowledging my supremacy as Captain of the lifeboat with the authority to lead and manage the affairs of the lifboat to ensure that the
lifeboat is kept safe and secure anitd that maintains its capacity to meet the material needs of the Captain and crew.

3. All prospective crew members if they wish to be a member of my crew must read and sign Articles of Agreement setting out such mutual obligations, responsibilities and duties as I have to the crew, and the crew have to me.

4. Failure of crew members to live up to the obligations, duties and responsibilities that they contractually agreed to, may face sanctions ranging from counselling to expulsion.

5. The ADF Defence Forces Disciplinary Act (and regulations) as modified to best suit the circumstances, will be the basis upon which discpline and justice will be maintained and it will also be the means by which crewmembers may seek redress of grievances if they feel that they have been unjustly or unfairly dealt with during the course of their tenure as a crew member.

6. All crewmembers regardless of age, gender, religious beliefs, or their station in life before TEOTWAKI will work diligently and in good faith in accordance with their capabilities towards the security, defence and productivity of the lifeboat.....It is not a luxury cruise liner and there are NO PASSENGERS!

7. All crew members capable of bearing arms will do so....for their own defence, for the defence of other crew members and for the defence of the lifeboat that sustains their continued survival. Those who are capable of bearing arms but decline or refuse to do so out of some consciencious objection will, if possible be given a non combatant role if that is feasible...otherwise they may be "offered" the option of finding a boat that is more to their liking.

8. Education and training will be free, secular and COMPULSORY for all crewmembers who are capable of drawing breath and who are fit and mentallly competent to be able to participate in such activity fruitfully.

9. Although I prefer a participatory style of leadership, the lifeboat is not a parliamentary democracy and will not be run in that way. There is no "loyal opposition", opposition leader or alternative government...just as a ship is not run as a parliamentary democracy. That being said, nor will I be operating a tyranny.

10. My objective is to lead a crew and vessal which will not only survive, but will thrive for the betterment of all those who sail in it, and also for the betterment of the local community where that is consistent with the continued survival of the lifeboat and its crew.

I may expand on this essay in the future.nt

 

Being new here, I truly like seeing these kind of topics being discussed in a respectful and objective manner.

While myself and our "crew" are really still in the infancy stages of prepping, we have sat down and discussed a few important topics, this being one of them.

Our fall back location, the best we have come up with so far, obviously is not an unlimited resource. This place has been in our family for almost a century now, and has been a weekend getaway for family and friends for close to 30yrs now. SO it goes without saying, that a lot of our friends, that are not part of the "crew" know about the place but not necessarily our plans. Undoubtedly, at most of the people are grasshoppers, and a certain amount of them will know where the crew is holding up when we are not "on the radar" any longer.

Given all of this, we have discussed in some detail what our course of action would be if/when these grasshoppers started arriving. A predetermined few, very few, have been factored in, to a degree. Although they don not know our plans, or that they do have a chance of being folded in, if they were to arrive then there's a distinct possibility of it happening. If not, then the extra resources will be a surplus for the crew.

Those who will not be allowed in, will be given a meal, and possibly a "move-on" bag as a gesture. There are a few, who will be dealt with in a much harsher manner, as we know their mindset. We have all agreed that these, a select few, that when turned away, will become an instant threat to the safety of the entire group.

Like others have stated in this thread, strangers happening upon us would be turned away indiscriminately unless they can prove very quickly that they have skills to bring to the table. A post SHTF situation, and our subsequent withdrawal to the BOL will mean that we have no time, goods, or tolerance for anyone who failed to prepare or that might be a threat to us and ours. We all agree that a time like this would not be a time for all "humanity" to break down completely. But those instances on extending help to others would only happen when it was determined that it did not tax the needs and/or safety of the crew.

 

Is there a "how to", what not to say / what to say...book or article on talking with family, relatives, friends, neighbors and/or strangers?

If so, please direct me.

Thank you.

 

Yes dead on are they a liability or asset having the wrong people in your group can get you and others killed. My things is do you trust them with your or your loved ones lives.

 

Someone just talk me down.

As some of you know, I've got my Father In Law living in my basement. You may have seen some of the adventure of Ole Dead eye.

As we are talking about going and dying somewhere else.

I'm struggling right now pre-SHTF with a liability.

If it weren't against the law, there would be a small supersonic crack followed by what might sound like a sack of flour hitting floor.

But alias, that would be illegal.

The newest saga is that he eats more than my teenage boy. I didn't know how strenuous a day must be that involves smoking 2 packs of cigarettes, drinking and reading books must be. He has no job, no girl friend and no hobbies that get him out of MY effing house.

Tonight the Missus brought home Fried chicken (I loves me the fried chicken) and homemade mashed potatoes, mac n cheese and homemade bread. There is enough food for 6-7 people. (maybe not enough chicken)

So Ole dead eye grabs the biggest breast of chicken and half another one, about a 3rd of the potatoes and quarter of the Mac. I feed the kids and looks at what is left for me. 2 wings, a thigh and half a breast. and one serving of the potato and mac for me and the wife to share. FML!

I looks to the wife and say 'I am going to kill him'.

Your mission if you choose to accept it is to Private message me random numbers between 0 and 75 so i forget the combination to the safe.

Better yet, find me a rich sugar momma that wants a grumpy old man to push around so i can get rid of him.

Thank you!

 

I'd like to be a little more sympathetic VisuTrack

I'd like to be a little more sympathetic VisuTrack, but it seems to me that you married that problem...a kind of a self inflicted wound situation. My only suggestion is to turn the basement into a gimp room and only allow your FiL out on a muzzle and leash. : O

Still....your FiL is providing enough material for a novella, so you may recoup enough from publication and royalties to be able to afford to send him to Van Diemans Land as a remittance man.....that should get him out of your hair for a while. ; )

 

Visu, I don't suppose his Alzheimers is kicking in so you could slip him on a bus going sumwhere far away so he can't find his way back?

*slips Visu a large blunt object incase the alzheimers needs help*

 

BT, I don't think 10 feet will be high enough unless there is a moat, patrol dogs and some really hungry gators.

Last summer when he went back to the old country I was hoping to get him on the no fly list, have his passport revoked or something. Like a bad penny he found his way back home. Dammit.

 

Try hungry wolves in lieu of dogs It should save on the gators.

But on a serious note During our flood I had a man working for me that would now be my XO. I have discussed with him and several other area leaders the need for absolute power in one person at the onset of a problem. There cannot be a question of who is in charge and that may create the issue of a short life for the first dissenter. After that people will understand or fear. Having said that I have also told the elders in my area that after that point if I am the problem have someone take me out. A dictatorship can only last a short time if we are to remain Americans. Martial law has a purpose but only for a short time.

The other side of that is you cannot make it alone. There is a reason families became tribes and villages. You cant make it by your self look at history.

 

ruger single 6, 22, with cb caps wraped in a pillow at close range....then you only hear a sack of....flour hitting the floor...

 

It's my understanding that elders, of the native americans once deemed no longer useful to the tribe, and in all actuality a liability for the survival of the tribe, would often either go out into the wilderness alone and die, or some, not quite so willing, would be banished and abandoned by the tribe.
.
I truly feel sorry for your deliema. Pre SHTF the situation is even worse than Post SHTF. Then It might be easier to say and do what is necessary when someone can't pull their own weight. But, then again, as a relative .... maybe not.
.
Yup, the whole situation sucks.

 

I have a similar situation with some local tweekers in our area. When I believe it is hitting the fan I will take several friendly fellows and visit the tweekers. I will let them know that the rules that keep them from floating in a manure pond are going away and that it is in their best interest to relocate. They will also be told there will be no second warning.

 

I really liked your post.

Now, let me be clear about the following: It would be a fictional (as in a novel) response for pesky, persistent grasshoppers.

Perhaps a thoughtful--and very visible--display of prior victims (grasshoppers, of course) with adjacent plaques detailing what they were trying to do and why they were doing it.

The only meaningful downside to this scenario is that, eventually, you may have an especially macho group of marauding grasshoppers who target you because of that grisly display.

 

Wonder if you could do that to an entire village of tweakers....
I hate to see such an ideal location go to waste.

 

Dead Marauding Grasshoppers don't come back. Especially Dead Grasshoppers that didn't know they were 5 football fields away from being in the Deepest of Monkey poo!

Theres a reason I call myself an A##hole. An past friends agreed rather quick with it back when we played Paintball Wargames. Its cuz I don't know the meaning of the word "Fair". I played with their minds. Making them think I was where I was not. I attacked from where they KNEW I could not be. I used force multipliers to startle, distract, and disorient them. I herded them along to where I wanted them to go. An that was just in a mere Paintball War. Imagine if it was real & my bag of tricks was opened to the more nasty side. Worse yet, imagine the SHTF & I had to protect my Family & Home.

 

Certainly.

I'm not going to cheat people. If I say that you can have 2 bags of beans for 3 bags of corn, I'm not going to fill the bags with something else. If I say that you can have a handful of corn for 3 bags of beans, then I will trade that. I won't go out looking for trouble. I won't leave booby traps to murder innocent travelers. Basically, I have the same ethical constraints now as then.

In the last extremis of defending my family, all lethal force becomes ethical to protect them from immediate serious harm or death. If I don't have immediate serious bodily harm or death looming, then the normal rules of interacting with other human beings are still in place- perhaps with more caution to make sure they're not planning to harm or cheat me, but nonetheless, the ethics remain the same.