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Guns and gardens

Discussion in 'General Survival and Preparedness' started by Kannonman, Nov 6, 2011.

  1. Kannonman

    Kannonman Monkey+

    I lurk and read more on survival type sites than I do post but I thought this observation was worth pointing out-

    In pretty much all the survival type sites discussions like "What gun is best" or "Defending your home" or better yet, "What's in your BOB?" are by far the most popular.

    Now don't get me wrong, I like guns as much as the next guy but in an actual EOTWAWKI type situation wouldn't your ability to grow, preserve, harvest, etc and your DIY type skills be more important?

    Say some virus ravages the world, there's looting and fun fighting while most people die, plain and simple. You use your guns to protect yourself for that first bad month or six months.. then for the rest of your life your skills at raising and just as importantly preserving food would be your most valuable assets I would think right? I would think that experts on apple orchards or carpentry would be more valuable in the long run than experts on fire arms.

    I guess I see plenty of short term situations like Katrina where fire arms would be super important but with the decline of America, the dollar losing value, and we are all becoming poorer it seems with every passing year.... I don't know, I just don't understand why there is 99 discussions about ammo or BOBs for every one discussion on gardens.
  2. BTPost

    BTPost Old Fart Snow Monkey Moderator

    Those observations are DEAD ON,for the most part. It isn't all Guns & Ammo.... It is Prep's and knowledge of long term survival that will win the day. ...... YMMV......
  3. Falcon15

    Falcon15 Falco Peregrinus

    Well, chief, that is why the wide range of subjects on the Monkey. Everything from practical stuff, like butchering a steer, all the way up to really interesting stuff, like setting up a PV system. There are always going to be the guns/ammo/BOB discussions, it is part of the lifestyle. The reason this is my home, and the gold standard prepping site, IMO is because of the wide range of information available from a wide variety of folks from different walks of life.

    By the way, Welcome to the Monkey! Keep your paws off my bananas, and we'll get along jest fahn.
  4. Kannonman

    Kannonman Monkey+

    Hey, don't get me wrong, like I said I will talk guns all day too and yes, I know that there's a wide variety of information here, no doubt about it, it just seems that a disproportionate amount of the discussion is related to guns and BOBs vs long term skills. Maybe it's just be. I really get into gathering wild plants, mushrooms, and medicines so maybe I can help revive discussions in those areas over time.

    Thanks for the look-
    tulianr likes this.
  5. Falcon15

    Falcon15 Falco Peregrinus

    Actually runs in cycles. Look back in the archives, you will find a TON of good stuff. Right now, a lot of new faces talking guns, ammo, BOBs, food storage etc.

    I am a skills kind of guy. I figure in a good solid, grid down TEOTWAWKI (long term) the survivors of the initial chaos will take a huge step back into the 1800's in no time flat. Heck after a good 'cane, you can get pushed back into the 1800's living wise, if you are not prepared.

    I have a huge library of books covering everything from Ammunition to Zoology with stops at weird places like flint napping, a vast repertoire of developed practical skills, and I learn more with each passing day. I post quite frequently on medical, gardening, animals, politics, EMP discussions, and many other all-over-the-place things.

    Again, welcome aboard.
    Gafarmboy, Alpha Dog and Cephus like this.
  6. Kannonman

    Kannonman Monkey+

    Flintknapping! Funny, I knapp points all the time, mostly for my atlatl but a lot just for the hell of it too. Looks like I'll fit in here just fine, I just have a lot of reading to do to catch up-
  7. Gray Wolf

    Gray Wolf Monkey+++

    Probably the reason many posts on different sites concern weapons and ammo is this:
    If you can't protect yourself and your family/clan, you will not be likely to keep your food and any other stuff safe either. In that case, your knowledge and other skills become irrelevant!
  8. Kannonman

    Kannonman Monkey+

    Gray Wolf, that's true but if you don't have any skills other than shooting then all the guns and ammo in the world aren't going to do you any good either. People tend to hoard dozens of guns and thousands if not more, rounds of ammo for each but not heirloom seeds? People have BOB bags with neat knives and flashlights but not enough skills to survive long term once they get to where their bugging out half the time.
    tulianr likes this.
  9. Cephus

    Cephus Monkey+++ Founding Member

    You know this may sound funny but a lot of people grew up being peppers and never knew it . Our family have done this for a lot longer than I been around and most of us still follow the rule that you provide for yourself . We raise a garden and butcher our own livestock .not a farm per say just what we need to get by. I don't say much on here about what it takes I guess because I take it for garnet that everybody should look for their family the way we do .
    And it does take the whole family to get it done .
    As far as the gun thing again it's just something that we have always done . So maybe I missed the point .anyway if you look around here and back in the archives I'm sure you'll see that there is whole lot to gleaned from this place !!

    ENJOY !!!!
    tacmotusn, STANGF150, stevel and 2 others like this.
  10. Witch Doctor 01

    Witch Doctor 01 Mojo Maker

    As long as someone has something that someone else wants and thinks that they can take it away from them there will be a need for guns.... there is no utopia of mankind there are predators and prey guns even up the balance...

    If i'm alive i can learn new trades/skills/crafts.... if i dead it dosen't really matter....
    Hispeedal2 and tacmotusn like this.
  11. Alpha Dog

    Alpha Dog survival of the breed

    Thats me too Ijust take that people know, I didn't know you could buy meat out of a store TIL I was in my late teens. Where Im from hollor people always kept what they needed on hand and most of it we raised ourself. My mom was always pulling apples and berries out that she had canned to give us kids a treat with a fresh pie or something. I guess it rubbed off on me my dad was raised hard where they would make biscuits and put baken on them for my granddad to go to work and then the kids would take a biscuit and lay in the gease to get the bacon tase. He always worked hard to keep the food stockpiled so we would never have to see or go through what he did. Alot of the families would come by the house just after we had dinner and dad would make sure no one left hungry. So now we don't have alot of exta's like high dollar video games , or tv's in every room but we are ok come dinner.

    Anyway Ive been looking over several books on grinding hard corn into meal. That is a trait I think would be important function for servival wheather personal or for a group.
  12. Falcon15

    Falcon15 Falco Peregrinus

    It is not so much a book learned thing as an equipment thing. If you can grind flour from hard winter wheat, you got corn grinding down. Unless you mean identifying the type of corn to grind that would be edible.

    Dent corn AKA field corn makes a fine meal. It also can be soaked for hours in a weak lye solution or lime and water solution until the husks float to the top. This creates hominy. Dry the hominy and grind that coarsely into grits, or finely into "masa" - which is the meal used for tortillas, tamales, or as a thickener for chili.

    You can also deep fry the dried hominy and you have corn nuts.

    Just be warned, whole grain corn meal has fats and oils that commercial corn meal does not have, because of how commercial producers process the corn prior to making meal. Grind only what you will use within a few days.

    Flint corn, treat the same way as dent corn. It is where blue corn flour and tortillas come from.

    You do need a nut/corn grinder. Cast iron is a good material. A standard grain mill usually cannot handle the harder kernels of corn.
  13. pmbug

    pmbug Golden Cockroach

    I was told there would be no math. /Chevy Chase

    More important? Hard to say. At least as important? I think so.

    We may soon be seeing a rebirth of the Renaissance era philosophy where culture inspires people to master a multitude of intellectual pursuits - only in this case, agriculture and engineering are more prominent than literature and art.
  14. STANGF150

    STANGF150 Knowledge Seeker

    Reason Guns are usually such a busy topic is same reason Gun Nuts never own just one. Everyone has different tastes & likes.

    Every Prepper can agree they need a garden, shelter, & other such, but not everyone agrees to the type/kind/caliber/size gun they think they need.
  15. toby jones

    toby jones Monkey+

    For one thing the playing field is level talking about firearms. A Glock 19 is the same in Texas as it is in Maine.

    I can't grow the same thing in my garden as people within walking distance of me can because of micro-climates, elevation or because going after cabbage moths with a Mossberg 500 isn't allowed within city limits.

    I completely agree that being a producer is much more valuable than being a warrior but there are a lot more variables.
  16. strunk

    strunk Monkey+

    Solar panels have a 25+ year life expectancy now. But the batteries that they charge will last a fraction of that time. Are you ready to live without electricity the way we know it in 5-10 years after TEOTWAWKI begins?

    OK, you're going to use that fancy gun to live off of deer. So is everyone else around you. Are you ready for deer to become an endangered species within 1 year after TEOTWAWKI begins?

    If one of your crucial metal tools breaks, do you have the tools and the ability to repair broken metal?

    If my family is hungry or defenseless, do you really think I'm going to accept silver in payment for something of mine that you want? Are your prepared to barter and trade goods or services that are actually useful to desperate people after TEOTWAWKI?

    I know many people here will have good answers to these questions. But all too many preppers don't.
    BTPost likes this.
  17. tacmotusn

    tacmotusn Mosquito Sailor

    Had I read the last 2 sentences of your post I might not have said all I did above .... maybe .... maybe not. Bottom line you have valid issues in your post. You might have come accross as heavy handed and all knowledgeable, and that might have triggered my responses a bit. There is a ton of info here at Survival Monkey. None of us know it all. We all are seeking ways to improve our odds of survival no matter what the future brings.
    STANGF150, weegrannymush and Falcon15 like this.
  18. Falcon15

    Falcon15 Falco Peregrinus

    Solar panel lifetime be damned, batteries that you use to store that power have a significantly lower lifespan. I'm not even going to get into inverter lifetime, charge controller longevity, or even light bulb endurance. From another post I placed on this board:

    Yes, and no. Not even including the die off, the "bubbas" have a finite amount of ammunition, and the game will be stressed for a year or so after SHTF. Once the large game is scarce, smaller game is on the menu. Not to say that people will take any game they can get at any time. Within one year after a SHTF scenario, the "bubbas" and their family will have thinned appreciably. Lack of clean water, lack of seeds to plant or seeds to replant, lack of sanitation, accidents, disease, illness, lack of stored food, lack of nutrition, I could go on and on. Many folks, myself included, live or have BOL's in very isolated, low population density areas. The game populations will be less stressed, due in part to having livestock on hand, and people harvesting game. Folks who wander in to someone's "back yard" to hunt will likely be shot for trespass. Isolated, far off living has it's advantages. Where my BOL is, there are less than 10 families within 30 miles. Closer in to cities in smaller rural communities, there will be more incursions by the GOLDEN HORDE, as well as a higher population density reliant on whatever foodstuffs can be farmed, livestock raised to slaughter age, and wild game.
    Looking at the macro picture, your statement may be true in some areas, and false in others.

    Well, lets see, we have enough "stuff" in the nation to supply 300 Million folks, and then some. Skills are of paramount importance, yes, and will be needed eventually, within 2 to 3 generations. We spoken of silver and gold elsewhere on this board, and the importance of trade goods, skills, and bater items. The search tool at the top of the forums is an invaluable tool for finding answers to these questions from various members of the boards.

    This is good macro thinking, however there is more of a picture you are missing. The population of the United States in a full on WROL/SHTF/TEOTWAWKI scenario will drop by a conservative 70-80% within months of an event. Within a year, fully 98% will be dead or dying.

    Again, from another post I made:
    STANGF150, Sapper John and tacmotusn like this.
  19. BTPost

    BTPost Old Fart Snow Monkey Moderator

    Battery Life limits only your storage capacity... so if you use the generated Power during the Daytime, and SLEEP when it is dark, then battery systems do not count in the equation.

    There are regional and local issues that may, or may not, apply to elsewhere.. so general Statements are pretty much useless as applied to these local and regional issues.

    Technology, applied to SHTF Senerio's will depend on how well you have set up you BOL, or BIL Pre-SHTF. If you have a Technologist and a Mechanical Guru, in your group, you will do much better than if you don't. The same is true for Medical, and Warrior, folks as well. Small Groups with varied SkillSets, will always do better than individuals, in such senerios....

    What, and how, you did your Preps, Pre-SHTF, will have much more influence over how you deal with outsiders, than anything else. If your set, then you will not need much from outsiders, if your behind that Power Curve, then you are there by your own, lack of vision.

    Exactly right, and this is why I give freely, of my Knowledge Base, to those who seek the answers, to these issues. If you are a Monkey, then you aren't a Sheeple. Your eyes are open, and you are willing to learn, from others experience. We as Monkeys, share our Knowledge, but NOT necessarily, our Preps, with other Monkeys, and for outsiders, well they are encouraged to Join, but as in any group, folks need to form relationships with the other Monkeys in the Tree and let those build some, before Trust is given or accepted. Some (GunKid, etc) just are not allowed to Hang out in our Monkey Tree. When you join, you pass thru the Probation Period, and other Monkeys see your stuff and you start building those relationships. The Founders have a solid, tried and true, set of Policies that help them vet folks into the Group. There are certainly subgroups, that exist, and that works as well. .... YMMV...
    STANGF150, tacmotusn and Falcon15 like this.
  20. chelloveck

    chelloveck Diabolus Causidicus

    I read them as rhetorical questions

    I read Strunks post as a series of rhetorical questions, that each prepper ought ask themselves in the context of their anticipated survival strategies for TEOTWAWKI (or some lesser disaster) preparation.

    The responses by some site members provide some reasonable answers and suggestions...these are some of the kinds of questions we should all be asking ourselves...the answers therein my prove to be our salvation.
    tacmotusn likes this.
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