Guns and gardens

I was not calling into question anybody here with my questions. Yes, they were rhetorical. Yes, they were meant to point out that in some other communities folks seem to be following a script of how they think they should be thinking rather than asking of themselves hard questions about how they will survive (and thrive!). And the answers will be potentially different for each family.

Guns are easy. Too many communities spend too much time agonizing over this small subject, and not enough time thinking about the other kinds of things that will likely be a part of their daily lives. There won't be a Home Depot around to run to when a tool breaks. There won't be a supermarket stocked with bread and milk and eggs. These are the kinds of very real problems that deserve much more consideration than "what brand of AR15 lower receiver should I buy?"

 

One of the things I especially like about this particular community is that, with a few exceptions, the tendency is to discuss all facets of prepping without trying to come off as "authorities" who judge whether another's priorities are right or wrong for them.

From the join date, the date of the first post in the thread and the obvious ignorance of what subjects actually get the most "play" on this particular forum, it appears that the OP might have been well served to actually examine the board before making his authoritarian judgements about the ways that others are wrong.

Guns and defense in a societal breakdown are an important factor, but not the only factor by far...and I cannot think of a single regular member who treats them as if they are even the most important factor.

 

This time of year, the crops/gardens are all gathered in, & hunting season is in full swing. So naturally the topics tend toward firearms. In Spring it goes towards building things & planting gardens. Summer construction & home/BOL improvement projects come to mind more often.

 

What? No fall/winter garden?

 

I guess it depends some on climate

Read as tongue in cheek....but I guess it depends some on climate...but gardening and farming can be an all season enterprise with hydroponics and lights in even the harshest seasons / climates....(not suggesting growing the illegal stuff)...but even using conventional horticultural practices, there's usually something that can bepropogated, grown or cropped in most places during winter.

How To Grow A Four-Season Garden – Part 1 | One Green Generation

Fall and Winter Gardening - YouTube

 

Having either and lacking the other is wrong.

No matter if it is seeds or guns a person needs knowledge also. Having seeds doesn't insure a harvest and guns aren't much different.

Judging by our own frontier, western expansion etc history; seeds, guns and the knowledge to use either will be required.

 

so just for fun, how many of you can make a shovel, garden rake or hoe
or a simple plow or harrow, harness or the chains and eveners to connect a horse?

 

I bought The Draft Horse Primer by Maurice Telleen many years ago (it was published in 1977) and although, to my present regret, I have given away most of my old homesteading and back-to-the-land books, for some reason I could not bear to part with this one! I see it is now available on Amazon for almost a hundred dollars so it was a good investment, lol. The book is a completely practical guide to the care and feeding and everything else, of draft horses and mules. Just thought it might be a useful book for folks to know about - taking care of horses is not for the inexperienced, too much damage can be done in ignorance so if anybody is a-thinkin' about getting a team, you better do your homework first. I wish I had owned this book when I had my workhorse back in the 60's - could have made my life (and his!) a bit easier perhaps. Just sayin'.....

 

Ancient wisdom has its uses and its value

I also have a copy of this book...somewhere in my library. I have never owned draft horses, or horses of any kind for that matter, nor am i likely to...however, I keep it as a reference source for hard times where motorised tractors are just rust collectors and sources of raw materials for horse shoes.

I keep such references for my children and grand children ready for such a time as it may be more valuable to them than a smart 'phone and twitter.

 

Actually Chell, I was serious. Farming/gardening can be performed year round in many regions of the US - in fact darn near anywhere, without grow lights or hydroponic set ups. For example, where I live, we planted in the fall - right at the end of October/beginning of November. Here, we do not need hydroponic set ups or full on greenhouse/cold frames for success. On the coldest days, we simply cover the garden with plastic sheeting.

IMO to restrict your growing season and experience to spring/summer is shorting yourself not only production, but year round fresh vegetables that could be crucial to your survival in a full on SHTF/WROL scenario.

There are many vegetables that are cool/cold weather tolerant and some downright cold resistant, such as cabbage, kale, broccoli, cauliflower, Brussel sprouts, some "English" & sweet peas, carrots, turnips, parsnips, beets, onions, and leeks to name a few. These are planted in October, with harvest dates around late December/early January for many of the above ground crops. The root crops can be kept in ground (except perhaps turnips, which get funky flavors - stronger as they age) till early spring, when they are harvested fully and set aside for later consumption.

Just an FYI all of the crops I mentioned above easily survive and are relatively untouched even by temps in the 20's F (-6 C). If the temps are lower than say 25 F (-3 C) at night or due to cold, constant wind or sleet, I cover the vegetables with plastic sheeting on PVC "hoops" to elevate the plastic above the plants.

In my area, I even have a full crop of about 30 pounds (estimated) of late fruiting tomatoes. Here it is mid December and I have tomatoes on the vine. Go figure. Also, you should have planted any seed for strawberries in late fall in my zone. (we are growing zone 9ish), and my strawberry plants are growing like mad. Some of my neighbors swear they get a good crop of winter bell peppers (Ace I believe is the variety they grew) from "patio pots".

No tongue in cheek at all. I was serious as a cardiac arrest.

 

Another plus with winter gardening is that with careful placement it can function as crop rotation. Great for the soil.

 

Correct. Peas for one have long been known to fix nitrogen back in the soil that summer crops deplete.

 

I agree with everything you said, but had to comment on this one.

When I had my most recent MI, the ER folks still remembered me from my prior one 2 years ago...as the guy who was making jokes when my BP was 40/0 and I could barely talk...

Nothing is too serious to joke about...humor keeps us alive.

 

Laughter is the best medicine...except when you are drowning.

 

As someone who became aware of our situation in the last two years, I have to say that I am far from an expert at anything but the art of endless reading and testing.

Defense, working with my hands, fixing cars, woodworking is something I have always focused on my whole life, but the gardening, the storage and preparation though winters, cooking, alternate fuel, heating, etc. has been a challenge over the last two years. I envy the knowledge and experience that others here have, which is priceless when a situation presents itself for a self sustaining lifestyle.

Here in Wisconsin, we have limited garden time, which for this ex city boy, makes for some interesting results. I have focused on the basics, while not producing perfect specimens, they are edible and I think I can make due. I am thankful that I have an older neighbor who has this knowledge and doesn't let me make too bad of a mistake. I catch him chuckling at some of the things I am doing, but I am focused on fast production and he is more focused on perfection. Which is actually good, as I gain knowledge and skills, I learn more about the details as time progresses.

On the flip side, I have been teaching him about defense and protection and I think none of us can know everything, but having someone nearby as interested in my skills as I am of theirs makes for a good experience for both of us.

A generation is leaving us that knew all of these skills that we (me) took for granted, and I think that the protection of that knowledge is pertinent to our survival in the years to follow.

I surely feel sorry for the person who thinks they'll just throw seed down and grow food. It is a whole 'nother science.

 

Agfadoc, I would suggest trying some of the Elliot Coleman books. Especially Four Season Harvest. He manages to pull it off in Maine. Even though its probably colder where you are, you might be able to make some things work.

 

here in northern michigan i have the same climate as you do
so we can only garden for1/3 of the year
you learn to grow more in less space and how to get the most from your time
you cant expect fast production, nature gives us what she does in her time
not ours, work well slow and let speed take care of itself, itll come when its ready

 

Hydroponics are a great thing. I get twice the production, twice as fast.

Smitty

 

Folks in Michigan can garden year round, even with extreme snow cover, as long as the more tender plants are protected from the snow in cold frames or green house structures. Additionally, late summer/early fall root vegetables planted and set do not go "bad" if left in the ground. Cover the greens with hay and dig up as needed. Gardeners of many stripes swear that many root crops become sweeter if left in the ground, after a snow, covered with hay.

There are many ways to garden year round even in the most extreme environments. Iceland, one of the most extremely cold places on earth, grows grapes and bananas year round in vast, commercial greenhouse structures. These are heated with geothermal steam. While your or others in the north country may not have access to vast stores of geothermal heat, you can use passive solar heaters, water systems and well constructed greenhouses and cold frames and do exactly the same thing on a smaller scale. Yes, Virginia, (I say tongue in cheek, because of the season) you can have tomatoes in February.

Seeing yourself as limited is not nature limiting you, it is human nature limiting you. Humans conquered this planet because we are the smartest monkeys around.