Honey...Wake Up..There are 2 men in the barn

Discussion in 'General Survival and Preparedness' started by bubbajoe, Feb 15, 2008.

  1. bubbajoe

    bubbajoe Monkey+++

    Last Sunday at 4 am. ,my wife wakes me up and tells me she sees 2 men walking in our barn with flashlights. I jump out of bed grab my bathrobe and a big maglite i keep next to the bed and race out the door.

    we have a large apartment over the barn, you walk out the door and down the stairs and there are the horses. its a big barn just over 320'x 80'.
    anyways. the barn is black except i can see the flashlights half way down the barn. as soon as I hit the bottom stair I start yelling "what the H@LL are you doing in my barn" At the top of my lungs. I flick on the overhead lights and race around the corner. just as I make the turn ,the lights start to heat up and come on and the 2 guys see me running down the aisle . one yells"DON"T SHOOT!!!WE ARE DROPPING OFF SOME HORSES!!! It stops me dead in my tracks.... I had forgotten we had two new horses being dropped off on Sunday and they were a few hours early. they were supposed to be delivered after 10 am.

    I go back upstairs to put on some pants and come back down to put the new horses away. I tell the guys they really really shouldn't walk around someones barn in the dark , you just don't know what mite happen. they apologized again and wanted to know what type of gun that was they saw me with? i said a big one and offered them some coffee for the road.

    The "BIG GUN" was a grey 4 D cell maglite with a strike benzel. I guess, the way i was holding it made it looked like a gun, . I had not turned it on.

    What did I learn from this? (1)I was LUCKY!!it could have been a lot worse. (2) I REALLY NEED TO GET A HANDGUN!!!
    the 12 gauge and the rifle i keep in the closet aren't worth spit ,because when you need a gun you need it now and they both have trigger locks on them . (3) I'm a hero..at least in my wife eyes i am ..in my own eyes i'm a very stupid man to think that some how i was going to stop something from happening with a big flashlight.[beat]
  2. melbo

    melbo Hunter Gatherer Administrator Founding Member

    Another lesson is that you need to be aware of what you are shooting at if you did have something else with you and adrenaline caused you to exert a little more pressure on the trigger than you had in mind.

    Be tough to explain to dead horse deliverers.

    Glad it worked out alright. Being awakened is always disorienting.
  3. Blackjack

    Blackjack Monkey+++

    Glad it wasn't "zombies".

    Handgun would be a good idea..... why the trigger locks.... kids?
  4. <exile>

    <exile> Padawan Learner

    That is probably a good discussion for another thread but what I was thinking that as well.
  5. bubbajoe

    bubbajoe Monkey+++

    Melbo, Point well taken!!
    I have to believe that i would not shoot first then ask questions ,but you know you hear about this type of situation happening in the news all the time. mistaken identity and people getting hurt.

    So let me ask the group this question

    who would have been armed and who wouldn't have? And Why?

    this is the first time any thing like this has happened on the farm.I would really like to get some feed back from anyone that has been in a same situation.
  6. Blackjack

    Blackjack Monkey+++


    Why? You're investigating known intruders on your property (and at night nonetheless). You're assuming it's not ok for them to be there or you wouldn't even investigate. So I think it's foolish, and dangerous to your entire family to not go armed. You may be ok with taking the risk for yourself, but if they were of "ill" intent, imagine what would have happened to your wife once you were dead.

    Anytime I answer my door at night to someone I don't know, there is a pistol on me.
  7. bubbajoe

    bubbajoe Monkey+++

    forgot to answer Blackjack.

    the locks are because i have kids. its more for my own peace of mind, they are 16 and 19 ,girls and have no interests in guns.
  8. Tracy

    Tracy Insatiably Curious Moderator Founding Member

    That depends on the need. I'm more of the sneaky type. If a noise is heard, I verify it's whereabouts and identity. If I identify the noise as standard or friendly, no defense mechanism is necessary. If I cannot identify the noise, I assume it means harm. I will not give away my safe little spot by talking to any intruder. The first sound you'll hear from me is a chambered round, followed immediately by your single warning before I defend.

    I was home alone, asleep, and my bedside dog started a low rumble, followed by a serious growl. From the hallway, slight noise, undetermined. Out of bed, gun in hand, made the dog go to the doorway first as my decoy. Positioned so that I could see as much of the hall as possible. It looked clear, but the dog wouldn't stop.

    His flinch told me something moved in the hallway; my cue. Weapon aimed chest-high, ready at the trigger, "Who's there? I have a gun."

    No answer. (I was really hoping to hear a friendly voice)

    Deep, silent breath... ready to defend... out the door, barrel first... only to find that my stupid roommate didn't tape the poster on his bedroom door all the way and the top corner had come off and was moving in the occasional breeze coming down the hall.

    That was the night we laughingly referred to as the "Night of the Killer Poster".

    It did let me know that I could be ready to defend myself in a matter of seconds. It also let all my friends know to announce themselves when coming in the door (which happened another time - luckily, they stated their name and saved their own life).

    The whole incident (both of them) took mere seconds. But in the dark, when you can feel your heartbeat and hear a strange noise, time seemingly stands still.
  9. Seacowboys

    Seacowboys Senior Member Founding Member

    Many years ago, I had some problems with someone using my barn for improper liaisons. I had been finding roaches and empty bottles and used condoms every few days. I came in from work early one day and there were a couple of cars parked down the end of my drive by the barn that I did not recognize. I carried a mini-14 with a 30 round magazine and walked down towards them and when they saw me coming with a gun, a group of teenagers thought they would try to run me over, I guess, since the only way out was past me. They didn't act like they wanted to stop and talk about it so I shot into front of their car several times and they ran through a fence and got stuck on an old cultivator that was hidden under some briers and weeds. They decided to stay in the car so I invited them out and marched them back to the other car and the few that had decided to wait by the barn to see if the first bunch got away. They had taken two of my best saddles and I made them carry them back to the barn for me. My wife had already called the sheriff and they got there in about 20 minutes. Asked if I wanted to press charges? I told them that if they would fix my fence and mow the lawn up in front of the house that I wouldn't have them arrested. The youngsters promised to stay away from my private property and never come back. Buddy brought his wrecker and hauled away the damaged car. This could have been a really bad situation with a lot of tragedy but fortunately, had a good ending for all. I don't think those errant kids ever totally forgot that lesson and I was made to ponder the possibility of taking lives over a couple of stupid saddles and an impromptu party spot.
  10. E.L.

    E.L. Moderator of Lead Moderator Emeritus Founding Member

    I have had a few instances of something going bump in the night, or even someone showing up late and unexpected. Once a good friend from out of state was passing through and neglected to call. He showed up and knocked on the door at about midnight. I had fallen asleep in my recliner, but as I heard the knock I walked to the bedroom and grabbed a 9mm S&W. Just as I was getting to the door I racked the slide to put one in the chamber. As soon as I did that I heard "DON'T SHOOT, DON'T SHOOT IT IS ME WAYNE!!!!!"

    A couple of things you have to be aware of is that if you are armed, you must keep your finger out of the trigger guard until you are ready to shoot. Most basic firearms classes will teach you this, and surprisingly it tends to stay ingrained. Look at a photo of our solders with their M-4s and you will see them with their trigger finger straight and out of the trigger guard. If you are surprised, or flinch your trigger automatically pulls that trigger. I remember a case about 15 years ago in Monroe, La. where a dad shot his teen age daughter when she hid in a closet and jumped out to surprise him. He had heard a strange noise and when she jumped out, he was startled and his finger pulled the trigger of his .44 mag. right into her. Her last words were "I love you daddy." Now that is gut wrenching. If he just would have had some training, and kept his finger out of that trigger guard she might still be alive today.

    The other thing, make sure that you have a good light next to your bed. You want to be able to identify not only the threat, but to make sure that it is one before you make that fateful decision.

    Unlike Hartage, I am not a fan of trigger locks. Of course I wasn't raised in California either. I keep a couple of guns loaded close at hand, and none of my children can manipulate them enough to get a round in the chamber and the safeties off. Except for my 15 year old daughter. She is not a firearms enthusiast, and if she was reaching for a gun then it would be because she needed it badly. Not to mention the "hidden in plain sight" means a lot too when they do not know where they are.

    Here is another knock on trigger locks.


    B. Trigger Locks can delay one's ability to use a firearm for self-defense
    [SIZE=+1] * Trigger locks are dangerous and cumbersome for self-defense.[/SIZE] The Wall Street Journal noted how when Beretta tested a "Saf T Lok," it cause 18 of 27 rounds to "totally malfunction." And when Handgun Control's chief attorney attempted to demonstrate the same trigger lock at an HCI-sponsored event, he found, to his embarrassment, that he was unable to disengage the lock.<sup>4</sup>
    [SIZE=+1] * A trigger lock can be very difficult to remove from a firearm in an emergency.[/SIZE] Maryland Governor Parris Glendening struggled for at least two whole minutes to remove a trigger lock at a training session in March 2000.<sup>5</sup> If it can take that long to remove such a lock -- when there's only the pressure of being embarrassed in front of the cameras -- what will a trigger lock mean for a homeowner who needs to use his or her self-defense gun during an emergency, in the bedroom, in the dark?
    [SIZE=+1] * The Mafia favors trigger locks -- for their victims.[/SIZE] Mafia turncoat, Sammy "the Bull" Gravano, expressed his love for gun control in an interview with Vanity Fair: "Gun control? It's the best thing you can do for crooks and gangsters. I want you to have nothing. If I'm a bad guy, I'm always gonna have a gun. Safety locks? You pull the trigger with a lock on, and I'll pull the trigger. We'll see who wins."<sup>6</sup>
    C. Real life examples of how "locking up one's safety" can result in death
    [SIZE=+1] * Canada:[/SIZE] Ian Dunbar of Green Lake, B.C. was four years old and home from kindergarten in 1994. While playing in his back yard, a bear attacked him. His mother jumped on the bear and hit him. A neighbor went to get a rifle, but was unable to find the key. They finally snatched Ian away and rushed him to the hospital, but he died in his mother's arms on the way.<sup>7</sup>
    [SIZE=+1] * United States:[/SIZE] Every month, the American Rifleman magazine publishes a column entitled the "Armed Citizen" -- a column which highlights recent press stories from around the nation where private citizens have used guns in self-defense. Virtually any self-defense story one reads out of the "Armed Citizen" would NOT have occurred if a trigger-lock had been in place on the firearm.
    [SIZE=+1] * Colorado:[/SIZE] "If I'd had a trigger lock, I'd be dead." After being repeatedly stabbed by three young men in his Colorado home, Chuck Harris managed to grab the .44-Magnum pistol he kept in a desk drawer. Thankfully, Harris didn't have to remember a combination or fiddle with a trigger lock -- he just pointed the gun and fired.
    That quick thinking saved his life, and has caused Harris to later reflect upon what was, perhaps, the obvious. "If I'd had a trigger lock, I'd be dead," he said. "If my pistol had been in a gun safe, I'd be dead. If the bullets were stored separate, I'd be dead. They were going to kill me."<sup>8</sup>
    D. California: A Case Study in Contrasts
    [SIZE=+1] * Merced.[/SIZE] On the morning of August 23, 2000, Jonathon David Bruce attacked a houseful of kids. Armed with a pitchfork -- and without a stitch of clothing on his body -- Bruce proceeded to stab the children. Two of them died.
    The oldest of the children, Jessica Carpenter (14), was quite proficient with firearms. She had been trained by her father and knew how to use them. There was just one problem: the guns were locked up in compliance with California state law. Unable to use the firearms, Jessica was forced to flee the house to get help. Mr. Bruce's murderous rampage was finally cut short when officers -- carrying guns -- arrived on the scene.<sup>9</sup>
    [SIZE=+1] * San Francisco.[/SIZE] Contrast the Carpenter's tragic situation to that of A.D. Parker. In February 2000, he was awakened by strange noises outside his bedroom in the middle of the night. The 83-year-old Parker grabbed a handgun he had not even used in several decades, went to his bedroom door, and found himself face-to-face with a thug holding a crowbar.
    Thankfully, because Mr. Parker had not obeyed California law, he didn't have to fiddle with a trigger lock, remember a combination, or look for a key in the dark room. He simply pointed the gun and pulled the trigger -- which is why he survived the attack.<sup>10</sup>
    <hr align="left" width="25%"> [SIZE=-1]<sup>1</sup> Congressional Record (May 8, 1991), at H 2859, H 2862.
    <sup>2</sup> Wall Street Journal (March 3, 1994) at A10.
    <sup>3</sup> Jonathan T. Lovitt, "Survival for the armed," USA Today (May 4, 1992).
    <sup>4</sup> "A Simple Invention Points Up Complexity of Gun-Control Suits, The Wall Street Journal, April 23, 1999.
    <sup>5</sup> Gerald Mizejewski, "Device wins police praise but fails to move skeptics," The Washington Times (March 23, 2000).
    <sup>6</sup> Interview with Sammy Gravano in Howard Blum, "The Reluctant Don," Vanity Fair (September 1999), p. 165.
    <sup>7</sup> The Gun Owners, April 16, 1999, p. 5.
    <sup>8</sup> Ellen Miller, "Man faces suspects accused of attacking him after getting ride," Rocky Mountain News (March 14, 2001).
    <sup>9</sup> Kimi Yoshino, "Gun advocates say fear of liability keeps parents from teaching survival skills," The Fresno Bee (August 26, 2000).
    <sup>10</sup> William Rasberry, "Ask A.D. Parker about gun control," The Denver Post (March 20, 2000).[/SIZE]
  11. ghrit

    ghrit Bad company Administrator Founding Member

    I don't care for trigger locks either, but unless the gun is broken down, I use 'em. Never did before when my hot tempered son was still home, he was TRAINED at an early age what guns are about. With the exception of the bedside gun or when I'm carrying, the locks are on, and frankly I can't tell you why. They are a PIA, and indeed will slow down the hot thinkers, most likely a good thing in some circumstances. Worse, there are some of these alleged locks that come off with a quick strike with the edge of the hand. Them, I won't use at all.
  12. bubbajoe

    bubbajoe Monkey+++

    My lovely wife has been telling this story all week to people in the barn. My bathrobe has now been turned into my superman cape.

    "He jumped out of bed threw his superman bathrobe cape on, grabbed his flashlight and ran out the door" He's MY HERO!!! i don't feel much like a hero

    just want to thank the group for all the great info and the stories.gave this a lot of thought ,
    I'm going to get a handgun. I will keep it in a locked draw in the nightstand next to the bed and wear the key around my neck. i figure it will only take me a few seconds longer to get to it and it will still be under lock and key.i just can't have a gun around my house where i know my kids and their friends may get a hold of it. as good as they are, they are still kids .

    i did a test the other day. I tried to get my shotgun out as fast as i could. it took me a full 2 minutes to get the gun case out of the closet, unlock the case ,take the gun out, take the trigger lock off and chamber a shell. i was fully awake and the sun was out.
  13. mage2

    mage2 Monkey+++

    I have small children, I have my pistol mag in but nothing in the tube out of reach of the kids but well within my reach. I also have a shotgun in the bedroom closet, with rounds in a holder on the stock. That is along with all the other misc weapons scattered about.

    I lived in a really bad part of houston for a few years and have scarred off someone trying to get into my car/garage with a rack of the pump shotgun. My dog alerted me that they were there.

    The second was a friend that decided to come visit late in the night. All I heard was the dog barking and whispering at the front gate. Then I saw someone reach over the wall. thats when the round entered the chamber. After I yelled something he responded. He still does not know how close he came.

    The yard we had in houston had a 7 ft tall brick wall around the front of the house with a dead bolting steel gate set in it. The house across the street was home invaded. Dogs are #1 alarm. because they were the only house with out a dog.

    Now I live in a less crime ridden area, but I still am "paranoid" I just call it ready for the worst.
  14. mage2

    mage2 Monkey+++

    Oh and one more. When I lived in a apartment in houston. I had a homless lady break in on a cold night. apparently the window wasnt locked , My girlfriend woke me saying "someone is in the house". This was before I had firearms. But I will tell you swords work well to make sure someone leaves quickly.

    If there is anything I have learned, Its be ready for the worst, and dont live in houston.
  15. BigO01

    BigO01 Monkey+++ Founding Member

    bubbajoe your "children" are 16 and 19 years old and you're worried they or their friends will get ahold of a gun in YOUR bedroom and misuse it ?

    I think you need to make some rules and actually enforce them in your home like perhaps Mom and Dads room is off limits when you're not home to them and to their friends all the time .

    They may not be interested at all in guns but are they interested in being raped and murdered by an intruder or a gang of intruders ?

    I think it's time to man up a bit and take charge of your home and families safety .

    MY own daughter had a "I don't care attitude" regarding guns until I informed her of the ugly realities of the world and told her if she wanted to live under my roof she was going to learn to use a pistol for defense , and she has .

    Not being able to trust my guns are safe from my children and their friends is just beyond belief , as I keep a handgun accessible 24/7 even when I am not home as everyone has been taught gun safety and how to use them if the need arises , this started when they were little in my home .

    The only time all my guns are in the safes is when I am sure we will all be gone .

    I suggest you get a solid double action revolver and learn to use it and insist that everyone in the home learn it as well .

    Keep that and a flashlight nearby and able to be brought into use every night all night without fumbling with locks of any kind .

    The flashlight should be one of the modern ones that is capable of throwing a 80 Lumen beam minimum .

    If you want a quality light without spending $100 that can take rechargeable batteries try this Dorcy , it is rated at 120 Lumen's and uses 6 AAA batteries all for $42
  16. ozarkgoatman

    ozarkgoatman Resident goat herder

    I would have been armed!!!!!!!!

    We have an 8y/o daughter she knows where all of my guns and can get to most of them. She knows that all of them are loaded and ready to shoot. She also knows what they will do because she has seen the damage they do to animals that I have shot. But she has been trained from when she was very young that she is not to touch without asking first.

    To me trigger locks just turn a gun into an exspesive ball bat.

  17. monkeyman

    monkeyman Monkey+++ Moderator Emeritus Founding Member

    Bubbajoe, let me first say that Im NOT trying to down you but rather to make you think.

    That said, I would have to agree with Big001. As horrible as it is stop for a moment and ponder EXACTLY what would happent to 2 (presumably) atractive teenage girls when say 2 or 3 thugs break into your house in the country, presumably with enouph land the neighbors will never hear their screams over the potential hours on end it lasts and you and your wife are away for work or whatever. While crime and home invasions tend to be less common in rural settings, when they do happen its also FAR more likely than in the worst areas of the city the residents will be taken hostage, raped, tortured and murdered when the animals are done with them.

    Now consider which risk carries the most weight, the possibility and corresponding likelyhood your kids will get your guns and misuse them and cause harm or death to themselves or someone else VS the possibility of what would have happened to them that night if the people in the barn HAD been there for evil purposes and especialy if you had not been there or they had guns and got you first. Would your wife even have been able to get the guns out before they could have gotten to her and had 3 ladies at their mercy or lack there of?

    MY thoughts would be get those guns out and keep them accessable and FIRST set up demonstrations for the ladies in your life of exactly how destructive they are so there is no thought of them as harmless toys (a 5 gallon bucket or 2 liter of water explodeing on impact with the reminder the human body is 90% water in a countainer of skin helps to convey this) then teach them to shoot and make SURE they have access to them. I can understand they may not be interested in guns as a hobby but even though Im guessing they are not into workig on cars for a hobby have you let them risk being stranded on a desolate strech of road due to being unable to change a tire on their cars? The ability to defend ones self is an escential life skill and ESPECIALY for a woman who is most likely to be attacked by a man larger, stronger and more capable/experienced in contact combat than her, it is important to have toos and a knowledge of how to use them to do this. That very reason is why, even though she isnt super into shooting, my main engagment gift to my Mrs (before and more money and more important than the ring) was a 9mm and a CCW class because I love her and want to make SURE she is safe and I KNOW I cant be with her all the time to protect her but I CAN make sure she has the tools to do so for her self.

    There SHOULD be NOOO reason for their friends to ever be in your room to even be a concern (that could be a legit concern in the front room and such but if its a concern in your bedroom then some friends need to be barred from the property for sure) BUT if you are still concerned about the friends (since teaching them how AND WHEN to use them elimenates that threat from your kids) then you might look at the safes that open from a touch pad. They even have handgun safes around $100 that have an impression of a hand with a button for each finger so you work the combo in the dark. The guns could then be kept ready to go in the safe and make sure everyone in the house knows the combo.

    I would just strongly encourage you to consider makeing sure they have at least basic training from you or an instructor on the function and use of the guns and make sure family members have access to them.

    Would I be armed? I carry 24/7. If Im not dressed then my handgun is within reach and when we go to bed the handguns are ready to pull the trigger and go bang and lined up on the headboard. If I get out of bed to investigate a noise I AM armed and Tina is armed as well if she goes or stays in bed.

    I have lived in some unpleasant areas and also have retained that level of alertness to threat.

    I grew up across the street from a biker bar that got roudy at times and my folks worked nights so anwsered the door at closeing time a few times in my teens with dads .38 in my pocket to let the drunk at the door know they could NOT come in to use our bathroom or phone or whatever as well as to allow me TO be helpful a time or 2 like when a guy needed to borrow a tool and some wire because his car broke down and he neede to fix it to get home. Would NOT have helped (at around 14 and smaller and weaker) unarmed but being able to be sure could maintain the 'friendliness' of the encounter if things went south I was able to be a better person.

    At around 21 and liveing in the inner city with a room mate (2 blocks from the projects), he locked himself out one summer night. I had my window open and the balcony came to the window which had no screen but the other windows were locked. He started to come in my window being quiet so as to not bother me...he decided to not be quiet when he heard my .38 cock as he moved the curtain back and was informed that anounceing was a good choice as the gun was already pointed at his chest. Anyone who comes around knows the door isnt locked and many of them have the permission to just come on in, they also know if they dont want to look down the barrel of a gun to announce themselves as they enter and repeat untill they get a response.

    IMHO if you arent gonna be armed to investigate the bump in the night then just lock yourself in the room, hope the family members will do the same, then call 911 and let someone who IS armed investigate it. If its nothing then all will be well either way, if its something that needed attention and you dont have the tools to deal with it you are likely to just make the situation worse.

    BTW, a shotgun is often my bump in the night investigation companion even with the 4 handguns on the headboard.
  18. misty

    misty Monkey+++

    I'm glad everything turned out okay. And you have gotten some excellent advice here!

    I just had a comment about trigger locks. None of my favorite guns have a safety or a trigger lock. I love Sigs! But to keep little fingers away from big pretty guns I keep the guns that are not on duty so to speak in the gun safe and there is always one on my hip. No little fingers are going to get in my holster! And no "zombie" is going to walk away if they are foolish enough to try a home invasion or anything else. It's not paranoid. It's survival and I live way out in the country so no one would hear a gal scream. The fence, the dogs and then who ever is home ... we're the first lines of defense.
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