If the "trigger event" happens while your kids are in school...

Discussion in 'General Survival and Preparedness' started by Mac Bolan, Nov 6, 2016.

  1. Mac Bolan

    Mac Bolan Monkey

    Whatever you have determined to be the decision making event that will cause you and your family to bug out will be altered by mostly inept school leaders.

    When children are at school or elsewhere that "prepped parents" can not get to them, the bugout plan flies out the window, simply because they are under the control of others who most likely do not share a prepping philosophy and can refuse to release your child.

    Consequently, school personnel may unwittingly put the children in harms way without realizing it due to their lack of knowledge.

    Secondly, if an event occurs that creates a situation where the school goes on lock-down, you will not have access to your children until an all-clear is given. If the event is bad enough, the children may be taken under police or military escort to a "safe place" (read that FEMA-type location) until the threat is neutralized.

    As the saying goes, "the best laid plans of mice and men, often go awry."

    Regardless of how well you plan, your children will dictate your actions in a dangerous situation.

    In a bit of irony, my offering above was proven just this past Friday.
    At Noon on Friday, we received a phone call from my grandson's high school indicating that the kids were going to be released early. In order to pick up your child, a parent or guardian had to go to the elementary school, which is a different facility, show an ID, and sign for them before they will be turned over to you...even though my grandson is 17 years old he was not allowed to leave on his own.

    I asked the teacher at the desk (which was blocking entrance to the school) what was going on and she gave me the "I don't know" lie.

    There were several police vehicles at the high school when I drove by earlier, so I figured it was a shooting or bomb threat or something similar.

    It turns out that it was a bomb threat.

    I then asked the teacher what if I had to get my grandson out in a hurry if something really bad happened and I didn't have an ID...she said they would not release him and I could not get into the school..which validates my original post.

    Under ordinary circumstances, I would applaud their concerns for the protection of children, but if it were a bugout event...you would have a real quandary on your hands.
    Last edited: Nov 6, 2016
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  2. Thunder5Ranch

    Thunder5Ranch Monkey+++

    There is something to be said for home schooling or home schooling groups. It has been more than a day or two ago but back in 6th grade we got one of those massive snow storms that dumped a lot of ice and then feet of snow. Our little farm was 2 miles out of town and the bulk of the other kids were 1/2 to 6 miles out of town. The bus that transported us was in a town 10 miles to the North and in a ditch 2 miles outside of that town. The first tractor and wagon arrived about 2pm and before long lots of farmers were pulling into the school parking lot with tractors and wagons and loading up the kids that were closest to their respective farms and taking them home. People still talk about the great blizzard of 1978. The schools power went out around noon and it was getting cold, the van that brought the school lunches didn't come and someone had slid off the road and taken a fire hydrant out that promptly drained the towns water tower. So there we sat with no power, no water and no food. The phone lines had also gone down. So when the tractors and Wagons started arriving and the farmers started dividing the kids into groups (About 60 of us in all) it was a very welcome sight. The farmers had coordinated this via their CB radios and had it all worked out.

    Rural Schools back then were a bit different than the centralized big schools of today for Rural kids. K-3rd grade was in the town of 300 people 5 miles to the West, 4th 5th and 6th grade was in the town 2 miles to the East with 450 pop. Most of the school staff lived either in the town of 6,000 twenty miles to the South or the town of 4,000 ten miles to the North. Ten or twenty miles, it may as well have been 1000 miles in that blizzard. There was another group of Farmers with their tractors and wagons that had converged on the K-3rd grade and picked up the younger kids in the town to the west. I remember it very well as my Grandpa and his brand new Oliver 1755 pulling his covered wagon was one of them. The Principal was giving the farmers hell and telling them they couldn't remove any of the kids from the custody of the staff. Grandpa told him to sit down and shut up or get in a wagon and sit down and shut up. All of the kids made it home safe those that didn't have a parent at home went home with the farmers. We ended up with the Principal, the 4th Grade Teacher, two teaches assistants and 3 other kids at our house as well as Grandpa, me and my brother. It was well over a week before the roads were cleared and we could get rid of the school staff and the other kids parents could make it home. The CBs were used to let the County Cops know that all of the kids were safe and the cops passed that along to the parents trapped in the bigger towns.

    When it was all said and done the Principal thanked Grandpa for his hospitality and apologized for being a Dick that first day. We were no worse off, it didn't take any more fire wood to keep 10 people warm than it did to keep 3 warm and Grandpa was a firm believer in keeping huge amounts of food stored and we all ate very well....... We had company after all so only the best could be served. It was a small house with only 3 small bedrooms, a kitchen small dining room and living room, so it was kind of cramped quarters, the path to the outhouse looked more like a tunnel to the outhouse. The hand pump to the well at the kitchen sink never froze or failed and the big pot of water on the wood stove kept bath and dish water hot. Our place was too far off the beaten path for rural electrification and rural water lines.... Although Grandpa did eventually break down and have the electric ran in the 80s and complained every day after about the $37,000 it cost to put a electric line in so he could pay a bill every month!

    I met one of the teachers assistants a few years back and she remembered well that massive snowstorm and spending a week on the farm. She was now the Principal of one of the consolidated school. The small town schools were abandoned many years back and are falling in on themselves now. She said that stunt the farmers pulled back in 1978 would not be tolerated today, and that school security would never allow a bunch of Farmers with tractors and wagons to remove the children from the custody of the school in a emergency situation and that what my Grandpa did was dangerous and put the children at risk. I told her, "Yep it would have been a lot better back then to have stayed in the school for a week with no heat, no water and no food! Didn't see you complaining when Grandpa was putting roasted chickens and taters on the table for you :) "

    That brand new Oliver 1755 that was Grandpa's pride and joy, well it is not new anymore. It and the old A frame wagon and a lot of Grandpas other tools and equipment moved to my small farm and that old Oliver is still the main workhorse on this farm. This old tractor probably saved my and many other folks lives back in 1978 and Grandpa was froze to bones after getting kids to their homes in the blizzard of '78. I expect now days he and the other farmers would have warrants out for their arrest if they did the same thing today and defied the schools authority.


    While not the bug out situation you described, this story does show the vast difference in now and 38 years ago. A whole different world and mentality today than back then. Where the policy is more important than the people.
  3. oil pan 4

    oil pan 4 Monkey+++

    Select a consealed meeting place a short distance from the school.
    If there is a bomb threat or something they need to get out of there. The current stupidity and red tape seems if it's shifted toward maximizing the body count when something bad does happen.

    Here is a scenario.
    Let's say there is an insane killer who wants to do harm to kids. They now know exactly what is going to happen now when a bomb threat is called in. Everyone is gathered to one location for "safety".
    That is where the attack takes place, duha...
    Mountainman and Ura-Ki like this.
  4. techsar

    techsar Monkey+++

    School won't release your child? Use today's tactics - File charges of kidnapping, conspiracy, child endangerment...and then sue the school district, principal, and any teachers involved ;)

    I am fortunate that mine are long past that stage. Back then, you just checked them out. No problem.
  5. Tevin

    Tevin Monkey+++

    If there is some cataclysmic "trigger event," the school is not going to take the time to methodically round everyone up and transport them elsewhere, because "elsewhere" will not be any safer or better than where they are. When the world implodes, it will not be in a nicely defined area.

    If it's some horrible but not widespread event, such as a shooting or bombing, running over to the school, as instinctive as it may be, is not going to change the outcome. You're not going to "save" anyone and will probably even make the situation worse.

    And I'm sure you can understand why the school cannot deal with or accept adults randomly showing up and collecting children without some system of checks and balances to verify who is leaving with whom.

    When you put your kids in the public schools, you give away a certain amount of control and have to trust that the contingencies have been sorted out. You may not like their plan, but they have to provide safety for many; your kid is not any more important than anyone else's. If that bothers a parent too much, then they should probably not have their kids in the public schools to begin with.

    For older kids, perhaps teach them to break away from the group and meet at some prearranged location.

    You either trust the school or you don't.
    Ura-Ki likes this.
  6. Motomom34

    Motomom34 Monkey+++

    This is very true. They will lock the doors and parents will need to wait. Schools lock down even if there is a robbery in the area.

    Our elementary school actually has an alternative location. The kids actually practiced leaving the school and going to place one or two. Place one or two were in opposite directions. These drills of evacuating the school to either location A or B were pre-Sandy Hook but the parents were alerted as to the different locations and that the school would let you know where the kids were if they had emptied the school.
    Ura-Ki likes this.
  7. ghrit

    ghrit Bad company Administrator Founding Member

    How will they let you know, and is there a backup means of comms?
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  8. Motomom34

    Motomom34 Monkey+++

    LOL! We are talking a school district. They could not fathom the phones not working. They will call or text, the paperwork said so. :D

    I have had chats with the kids about what I expect and our plan. Does not quite go hand in hand with the school districts plan.
    Ura-Ki likes this.
  9. BTPost

    BTPost Stumpy Old Fart Snow Monkey Moderator

    When our children were in School, they were instructed, that if there was an Issue at school, they were to LEAVE the School, any way they could, and make there way to a Trusted Families, Home, that was two blocks away, and wait for Either AlaskaChick, or I, to come and "Collect them".... It happened a couple of times, over the years, and the Trusted Family had children the same ages as our Children, and they were instructed with the same Plan. Our Kids knew where the Hide-A-Key for that place was, as did their Children knew where our Hide-A-Key was located. Once the Oldest Children were driving, they were instructed to make sure they younger Brothers and Sisters were accounted for, and then to move the whole bunch to the Home farthest from the Issue. Both families had 4X4 Rigs, so if Wx was the Issue the Parents could get to anywhere, without much trouble. Both Families had Chainsaws, Backup Power, Emergency Wood Heat, Comms, and Preps... We NEVER Trusted the Schools, with the protection of our children. This was ALL made Firmly, and Pointedly, CLEAR to the Principal of each School, upon Enrollment. Never had ONE Principal, question our setup, after that meeting. Oh Yea, School Admins had a GREAT Aversion to Meetings with Me, especially if there was an Issue, with my Children, that had brought me to the School...
  10. Mac Bolan

    Mac Bolan Monkey

    Here is a pdf copy of an emergency response plan from a Waterford, MI school district.
    I am unfamiliar with it but I think it a smaller school system.

    Some of the terminology should scare the hell out of the average parent.

    "How can I see the security plan for my child's school? The Waterford School District does not release this type of specific information, pursuant to the Freedom of Information Act. This law provides specific exclusions to the type of information that can be released and protects our students and staff"

    "What is shelter-in-place? Shelter-in-place is a short-term measure (measured in minutes or hours, not days) designed to use a facility and its indoor atmosphere to temporarily separate people from a hazardous outdoor environment. If an accident or attack that created contaminated air occurred in the school area, students would be brought indoors. Building personnel would close all windows and doors and shut down the heating, ventilation, and air conditioning system (HVAC). This would create a neutral pressure in the building, meaning the contaminated air would not be drawn into the building. No stockpiling of water and food is needed for shelter-in-place. Any event of a magnitude that required such stockpiling would require that the school community, as well as the community at large, would take direction from the federal emergency management officials. Parents should not be concerned that, during a shelter-in-place activity, they might be separated from their children for long periods of time. That will not happen because if the air outside the school is safe for parents to breathe, it will be safe for their children to breathe. School staff have developed a plan that uses the best possible method for ensuring the safety of students and staff members in this type of crisis. Waterford School District staff will keep children safe for parents until the parents can pick them up."

    "10. Will I be allowed to pick up my child? The Waterford School District does not intend to keep children from their parents if a crisis occurs during school hours or school activities. It is the school district's intent to make sure that children are safe inside their schools until such a time that the threat has been reduced. Parents will be informed where and how to reunite with their children as soon as it is safe to do so.

    11. Will I be given the evacuation and parent reunification locations ahead of time? The Waterford School District does not release this type of specific information, pursuant to the Freedom of Information Act. This law provides specific exclusions to the type of information that can be released. Also, during emergency situations, circumstances could arise that might force changes to previously designated locations. Parents will be informed of parent / student reunification center locations via the local media and through District resources.

    12. Are schools stockpiling food and water? The school district is taking action to make sure that schools and offices have the appropriate resources available for a short-term event. In the event of a large-scale catastrophic event, the Waterford School District would rely on federal and state authorities for assistance."
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  11. ghrit

    ghrit Bad company Administrator Founding Member

    heheheh. Yup, as expected --
    Tully Mars, Motomom34 and Ura-Ki like this.
  12. ghrit

    ghrit Bad company Administrator Founding Member

    Very definitely not small. Budget is over 104 million. It's just west of Pontiac. That pdf is singularly uninformative.
    Ura-Ki likes this.
  13. rockriver

    rockriver Monkey+

    get/stay/become/be involved in your school and town.

    does the teacher know you and your spouse by sight and by name.
    do you know your teachers first name? does she know yours? have you ever told the teacher, " please call me joe. I work down at the hardware store on east main. everyone just calls me joe! anything you need up here at the school, let me know. especially if it has to do with fixing widgits or thingamabobs."
    then when she calls, or you hear from your kid that the school's old alarm isn't working... go fix it... or get your fishing buddy to fix it. and you be there with him.

    do something social with the teacher. take her and her spouse to eat before the football game, or give them the right to hunt on your farm. (what! you don't have access to a fishing/hunting location, that you can take someone? then it's time to get one, or time to move!)

    get to know the principal and office staff.. take them some biscuits one morning. or volunteer on field day or something.

    folks, if there is an emergency, you want the teacher and principal to immediately, without thinking, say, he mr prepper, timmy is in the gym. "sure, it would be ok to take him home."

    have you met the sheriff, ems director, and mayor of your village? have you done something to help your village that they are aware of? have you sent a note to the newpaper bragging on officer jones and the police chief and how they helped your wife with her flat tire?

    if you live in a condo in downtown state capitol, then i'd guess most of the above is not possible. may I suggest you plan to move! to a place where it happens very naturally.
    God bless.
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  14. Ura-Ki

    Ura-Ki Grampa Monkey

    This was a major concern of mine when my son's were still in school! We gathered the families of the Scout Troupe and together devised plans to get as many out as possible, to include teachers! Once my oldest started driving, we equipped his Ford Bronco with a BOB/GHB set up and he had additional instructions because he would be driving as many as he could safely fit! We had three rally points and good coms to be able to use to get every one picked up safely. We also went over some escape and evasion plans should some one discover the kids "escaping" from school! This was a few years before Sandy Hook, but the schools were all ready planning for a "Mass Event" and would go into lock down and shelter in place! As a member of the armed Forces, I know those two things mean certain death to those forced into a situation with no escape, so I was not going to let my kids and there friends and class mates become victims! We even had a plan for where to go inside the school and wait for dad to crash his truck through a wall and grab and go if it ever came to that! Both boys had cell phones and had code word instructions for two way coms with out compromising OPSEC! These days, My Neighbor still has his youngest daughter is high school and we have devised plans to get her out should things go south! One thing I helped my neighbor do was include a Plate and carrier in her back pack, and a way for her to get to it and use it should things get nasty. And again, she knows how to get out of the building, and knows where to go, and if her folks cannot get to her, she knows how to reach me and the wife, and we will try getting her out. I hate that kids and staff are forced into this, but i also understand having a large group of kids is a night mare for any one to try and deal with. I just hope we never have to do it for real!
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  15. Mac Bolan

    Mac Bolan Monkey

    In my town, it apparently doesn't matter when it comes to the schools.
    I am good friends with the Chief of Police, my three adult children are in law enforcement. I have spent 15 years in local EMS and 5 in local law enforcement. My wife has been the crossing guard for the grammar school for 14 years and still....this teacher I never saw before was demanding an ID.

    In small communities such as mine, it seems we read about teachers being laid off and new ones hired each year so it gets hard to know all the teachers.
    Ura-Ki likes this.
  16. ghrit

    ghrit Bad company Administrator Founding Member

    One more good reason to go to PTA meetings. (It was the ONLY good reason I ever found.)
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  17. Motomom34

    Motomom34 Monkey+++

    It doesn't matter whether they know you or not. When the school is on a lock down, no one in or out. You are require to show an ID, no exceptions and also, you need to make sure that you are on the allowed pick up list. Some lady forgot to put her husband on the pick up list, so the school refused to allow the child to go with their father. It sounds anal but really, it is for keeping the kids from going off with someone unacceptable. Very often children are kidnapped by their own family members.
  18. BTPost

    BTPost Stumpy Old Fart Snow Monkey Moderator

    We went to ALL school functions, Principals would see me coming, and head the other direction... They knew who we were, and we usually were silent, but there.... if I had an issue, it was dealt with, one on one, in a private meeting...This was all explained, on enrollment, or before the first day of school, with a new Principal.. One new Principle told me during our introduction meeting, that he had been "Warned" about ME, by the Staff, and to just "Listen" and get thru it... We had a very nice meeting, and we became good friends.... He understood My concerns, and what his roll in my child's education.
    jim2 and Cruisin Sloth like this.
  19. Mac Bolan

    Mac Bolan Monkey

    Under ordinary circumstances I agree...but the essence of the original post was that if a bugout situation developed and you wanted to leave town...you would not be able to if your kids were in school at the time.
  20. Motomom34

    Motomom34 Monkey+++

    Apologize for derailing a bit but it does highlight that the schools seem to think once your child is on their property that they have guardianship in the fullest extent. I am not sue how one would get their child other then the child having to bust out and come to you. The question I have is how far would the school go to keep the child in their possession?
    mysterymet likes this.
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