If You Had To Choose....

Discussion in 'Firearms' started by Yard Dart, Dec 18, 2015.


Tags:
  1. HK_User

    HK_User A Productive Monkey is a Happy Monkey

    As does the MAK 90 Norinco MAK-90 Model of the Kalashnikov AK-47
     
  2. Tikka

    Tikka Monkey+++

    One technique for a small force to break contact with a larger force is called the Aussie peel and its variations. Basically in its shortest form, it's a small group method of breaking contact with a high volume of fire. Better than the average shoot and scoot. Although it looks simple, as it is live fire, it isn't simple.
    If the shoot and scoot game is continued too long; the results are predictable as you said farked.

    I understand no cavalry and not even a colonial era network where neighbors would come to the sound of gunfire.

    After SHTF, I doubt it will be military. Unless folks trying to survive methods are to raid others; why would the military bother?
    IMO, the SHTF danger would be ex-military who are hungry or figure why not carve out a kingdom. Sorta along the themes of the Postman, Book of Eli and others.
    As some were trained to analyze, plan, attack and effectively. Therefore, a lot more dangerous to encounter than an armed mob of parasites.
     
    kellory and Tully Mars like this.
  3. Kingfish

    Kingfish Self Reliant

    Our plan is to back up pulling them into one killing field after another. Most of these groups will not be more than a few men. By the second or third ambush I think they depart or they all die and become turtle food. Snapping turtles love rotting flesh.
     
    Tully Mars likes this.
  4. Xocjm

    Xocjm Monkey

    I have to add my 2 cents. My rifle of choice (which I own) is the Adams Arms small frame patrol enhanced AR10. It is a scaled down version, smaller and lighter than your average AR10 but still has the advantage of the .308.
     
    HK_User and 3M-TA3 like this.
  5. 3M-TA3

    3M-TA3 Cold Wet Monkey

    @Xocjm I'm very interested in your experience with your rifle as I just bought one a few weeks ago. There is a brief review ere: A Simple Simian’s Primer on the AR-10 platform and Adams Arms Patrol 308 Battle Rifle Review | Survival Forums
     
  6. Xocjm

    Xocjm Monkey

    It's a fantastic weapon and Adams Arms is a great company. I'm in the gun business and have experience with a lot of different manufacturers and I can't say enough about this gun! My AR15 was my favorite but not anymore.
     
    3M-TA3 likes this.
  7. Xocjm

    Xocjm Monkey

    I will add that I am upgrading my AR15 to the Adams arms piston system. It costs around $300 but worth it if you shoot a lot.
     
    3M-TA3 likes this.
  8. 3M-TA3

    3M-TA3 Cold Wet Monkey

    Thought you might enjoy my builds here and the following post: AR-15 Picture Thread | Page 13 | Survival Forums

    Bud's Guns was running a steep discount on the Adams kits, so it only cost me $50 per rifle over DI. Otherwise I'd have likely gone DI. I'm very satisfied with the rifles, but after firing one shot without hearing protection the compensators are getting replaced with the very effective Smith Vortex flash hider.
     
  9. Tikka

    Tikka Monkey+++

    My 2 favorite ARs are the Daniel Defense (6.8) and Barnes (5.56); with mid grade optics either is sub MOA using good quality ammunition or reloads.
    Any AR is accurate; either of these are exceptionally accurate.
     
    3M-TA3 likes this.
  10. D2wing

    D2wing Monkey+

    I am a combat vet, I have extensive experience with both AK's and AR's as well as the M-14. There is doubt that the AR is a superior combat weapon. There is a reasonable argument that the M-14 is better due to it's superior power and range. The AK is inferior in every way that counts. The AK is heavy and very inaccurate. Has a slower rate of fire and the 7.62x39 is not very effective compared to the 5.56 NATO or a sp .223.
    Those that say the AK is as accurate either are clueless or can't shoot. There is no comparison. Besides combat and military training I am a certified instructor and have shoot countless AK's and SKS rifles. Only the Saiga I currently own isn't real terrible.
    Having been in gunfights, accuracy is extremely important. When you need it, rate of fire counts, the biggest thing is the difference in round effectiveness. As Col. Hal Moore said after the famous first large scale battle against the NVA, "the reliability and effectiveness of the AR made the difference. The AR is a fine weapon."
    Hundreds of engagements all around the world have been proving the truth for 50 years. The AR is vastly superior. As a recent thread where someone quoted a combat medic. And my own experience with both rounds as well as extensive military tests, the 5.56 creates wounds massive mushy wounds, the AK just punches through soft tissue. He showed pictures that showed the difference and the difference in survivalbilty.
    In semiautomatic civilian weapons it is closer between an AR-10 and a AR-15. My favorite is an M-14 all around but clones don't measure up to the real ones.
    An AK works. No harm in having them. But if you are up against AR's you are at a serious disadvantage.
     
    Cruisin Sloth and Ganado like this.
  11. ghrit

    ghrit Bad company Administrator Founding Member

    At the risk of poking a soft spot, I doubt Col. Moore praised the AR. Maybe the M16 ===
     
    HK_User, oldawg, Ganado and 1 other person like this.
  12. chimo

    chimo the few, the proud, the jarhead monkey crowd

    Horsepucky. The AK "can" be heavy, but can also be as nearly as light as an AR. Slower rate of fire only matters if you are spraying and praying...I've used both on assault courses and have noticed little difference in my times. Not very effective? Within 100 yards (which is where I prefer an AK) the accuracy difference is negligible if you use optics, but the 7.62x39 gives your opponents a hard lesson in the difference between cover and concealment.

    Comparing AR to AK is like comparing apples to oranges and neither are worth a crap as a main battle rifle.
     
  13. D2wing

    D2wing Monkey+

    Correct ghirt. My error. Chino, you have no idea. In real battles there is a proven difference in every area I mentioned. I am a veteran of real combat gunfights. When people are shooting at you and you at them everything matters. Nothing you said is accurate either, typical fanboy delusions. I hope you never the experience I have to know the differences, and how inadequate the AK is. Cover and concealment? You do know you are talking about a beefed up pistol round don't you? You do know it is better to shoot the other guy before he can shoot you don't you? Your life must be cheaper than mine.
     
    Cruisin Sloth and HK_User like this.
  14. Kingfish

    Kingfish Self Reliant

    D2wing, I was told exactly what you said by a staff sergeant who also served. He said almost word for word what you said. I never was in the military. I did on and off 20 years in Michigan Militia and trained with many ex military and many of them were in Iraq and other sand pits. ALL of them favor an m-14 or M1A in 308 and all of them concur that if they had resupply they would carry that caliber. However they also concur that in a civilian gunfight with no resupply they would choose an AR-15 as they could carry so much more ammo. I have a small battle pack at 210 5.56 rounds plus 20 rounds for my pistol. Other younger guys were carrying 300 easy. It changes everything when you have a crate of ammo behind you on what you can carry. We decided here for defense of our perimeter to use our long guns 30-06, .338 and .50 along with the patrol rifles. On the move patrolling the area we all carry ar-15 rifles. I watched 7 different guys with 7 different Ak variants fail to qualify even level one rifleman which was 8 of 10 rounds prone using your back pack as a rest into a paper plate at 100 yards. The best I saw was 7 and the grouping was terrible. With my Stag arms Ar which had a DPMS match grade barrel I shot level three which was 8 of 10 in a 4 inch circle. I put all 10 in. My new Dpms Oracle is not that accurate at least not yet. Im still trying to find what it shoots best. So 5.56 American Eagle is okay but Im not happy yet. I got 10 rounds in a 6 inch circle yesterday so Im getting there.
     
  1. AgentPickle
  2. 3M-TA3
  3. Matei
  4. Yard Dart
  5. Yard Dart
  6. hot diggity
  7. Oddcaliber
  8. Dont
  9. oil pan 4
  10. Oddcaliber
  11. Yard Dart
  12. Marvin L. Steinhagen
  13. Ura-Ki
  14. Ura-Ki
  15. Witch Doctor 01
  16. Big Ron
  17. OldDude49
  18. Yard Dart
  19. OldDude49
  20. hot diggity
survivalmonkey SSL seal        survivalmonkey.com warrant canary
17282WuJHksJ9798f34razfKbPATqTq9E7