Discussion in 'General Survival and Preparedness' started by TailorMadeHell, Mar 21, 2016.

  1. arleigh

    arleigh Goophy monkey

    The problem I mentioned on another thread , what if you get home and it's not there, or some one else has taken it ?
    Motomom34 likes this.
  2. AxesAreBetter

    AxesAreBetter Monkey+++

    Ah, well, I carry a..."minimal kit" with me, that carries all of my essentials. So long as I have that, bushcraft provides. My "INCH" system is basically a "minimal kit" with some "civilization building" tools added to it, stuff that is either a major aid to resource management (2 quart pot vs 12oz cup) or stuff that I know I don't have the skill to replicate in the field (coping saw/saw blades or metal arrowheads).

    Honestly not all that worried about someone stealing part of my stash so long as I have the good stuff with me.
  3. cattlebandit

    cattlebandit Monkey

    Hey this is my first post on this forum so it's going to be a ramble. Been reading but I got excited to post when I saw some inch discussion. Although I must say this thread is lacking in creativly dissected content. I think it is because we are caught up on INCH. What does it actually mean? Where can we point to in history and say, there was a case of war resulting in localized famine and refugees. Because by making an inch bag you are accepting refugee status and equipting yourself with a bag that can be lost or taken or given enough time, worn out. So given a potential reality were you see the end society's wealth, what's next? What is there to look forward to as you lug you bag on foot or cart? If survival becomes a reality, how will a bag, brimming with durable, heavy items find you happiness to keep going as you rummage through every pond, river, derelict structure, and seaside while rolling the dice everyday, hoping you find enough calories to not start fueling from within as your body consumes it's own tissue. Say any one of us makes it without acquiring radiation illness from power collapse outages, or gone crazy from a rotten tooth caused by the wandering and eating things we had little experience resorting to prior. What are you going to wear to keep your feet warm, when the couple pairs of socks you started with become open ended tubes.

    Don't get me wrong, a lot of you have valid points scattered throughout 7 pages of comments, but I feel that filling a bag with guns and knives, bushcraft cotton tarps and pulling a cart is going to save anyone from the animalless ecosystem followed by the flee from cities and unfiltered polution caused by infulstructure unattendance. It certainly will calm your immediate worries when you realize that everything you know and comfortabily adore at home is now a potential coffin if you were to remain.

    This topic has been on my mind for over a decade, but the more I know, the more I learn the more I realize how over confident it is to think that I can fill a bag with items that are familiar to the present me and make it for any amount of time past anyone else.

    I don't have any answers, only a few tactics I think would help multiply survival chances with backups to backup caches, and the eager impulse to keep learning and making what I need from junk and debris. but what I think is most important is what is happening here, people working together, it is the only way solutions can be recognized, established for localized scenarios. Because in the end we are pack animals, and each of us will find the bottom to the pit if we isolate.

    So if we could establish a new subcatagory that doesn't hover around material possessions as it seems the rest of the preparedness in a bag followings do, and instead find some deeper sovran understandings that are void of reasuring success from current purchases, because that really is the premise of that what will be missing, and instead more intellectual, strategic, subcatagory with a catch phrase that touchs on every basis. Because future man will be the 1% that got lucky of the 10% that figured it out before it happened. Being a jack of all trades and not anything close to the routine life we reconize today. I think looking at the realities and evolving the platform we function upon to maximize results, will be the best chance any of us will have.
    Motomom34, Ganado and Yard Dart like this.
  4. Yard Dart

    Yard Dart Vigilant Monkey Moderator

    Welcome to the forum @cattlebandit , feel free to start a new thread to expand upon your desire to discuss the deeper sovran understandings that are void of reassuring success from current purchases. :)
    Ganado, ghrit and Brokor like this.
  5. Brokor

    Brokor Live Free or Cry Moderator Site Supporter+++ Founding Member

    Humans use tools. This is an undeniable reality. If you feel like your intellect can stop a bullet, then wear that intellect around proudly. But I will be using my Kevlar, if you don't mind.

    I enjoy philosophy as much as any other avid philosopher. I also recognize the importance of the tools/gear we use.

    If there's anything you would like to share, feel free. You mentioned socks, maybe you have an idea about sewing and mending socks? Perhaps an old self sufficiency revival about the cotton gin is in order? We do have a lot of threads on self sufficiency, you are welcome to add to any of them!

    When it comes to bugging out, there's only so much you can carry with you. But, we've said many times around here that knowledge weighs nothing.
  6. AxesAreBetter

    AxesAreBetter Monkey+++

    I mean, I rarely wear shoes, so socks are not something I have to worry about too much. If you would like some old fashion examples, I can provide them, as well as a drastic approach to shtf for most people.
    Asia-Off-Grid likes this.
  7. arleigh

    arleigh Goophy monkey

    i recommend taking all your gear out and see for your self how things work out .
    See what you can actually carry and assess just what happens as you try to transport it all.
    I personally do not relish the idea of bugging out, but I have made provisions in the event there is no way around it.
    It involves however a great deal of sacrifice, and plans with in plans and back up plans as well ,just because no one knows the nature of the event that makes it necessary nor the circumstances in place during that event.
    If there has just been an earth quake, and as a result you have an injured back, your not going to be moving very much stuff any where .period .
    Saying to your self ," I am impervious to all physical damage nothing will happen to me."
    Don't make it so .
    Ideally however ,if one is planing on bugging out permanently , have a trailer, with all your gear ready to go , and a vehicle capable of hauling it . and with in that have a cart with the most critical needs that can be walked if necessary, and the tow vehicle is a no go, and or dies in transit .
    If your settled with leaving some stuff behind, then leaving stuff behind along the way, should not be that difficult either.
    At least It can give you something to barter with along the way.
  8. cattlebandit

    cattlebandit Monkey

    I don't have all the answers, certainly, in fact the more I learn the less I feel I will survive or want to. I don't mean to take a crack at anyone's plans or work they have achieved but I do feel as a whole we get caught up in the bottle neck of catagories. certainly a bag of sorts is needed for carrying any amount of food if one wishes to not be on the perpetual hunt of eating grubs and cattails. So I totally agree with everything here and was attempting to impose possible scenarios out there to diversify the topic INCH, because the reality is we think we know, but in fact is we learn best from mistakes, and in a potential future those mistakes might not offer a second chance.

    Although I believe inching preps are at the most high level of self learning when the cat is let out of the bag.

    So to give a brief discription of what is in my inch bag (all current items are there but not upgraded to stated heavy duty specs): 500d digital 10x10 tarp, 4x8 1.9oz punylon tarp, extra wide bivy with bug net, 5oz climashield sleeping bag, Aabe 4lb wool blanket, 32oz kleancanteen, 64oz plastic rei waterbottle with single berkey filter drilled into the bottom with tubing that connects to a large 3lt water pouch in cordura bag, sawyer filter and 3 smart bottles, slim belt pouch with essential quick access edc items, multiple trash bags of different sizes 6 or 8mil. full climashield 2.5 leggings, jacket, booties and hat, (one set worn) 2 silk shirts, three undies, one light one expedition weight wool undies top and bottom, four socks of different girth, two cordura pants, waxed hemp canvas 14oz hoodie, breathable 3layer rain coat, silnylon 3oz poncho, wool beanie, breathable drybag, sling shot, breakdown bow, full metal boyscout hatchet, two full tang knives, one folder stainless, folding bucksaw made of an aluminum crutch 6oz, three spare blades, extra beeswax, hook and line heavy fishing kit, borax, brick of soap, and two ursacks. A custom aluminum, full rubber wheel, dolly.

    in total with a 2.5lb backpack it will all weight 25lb easy without food, but acts as an above ground base stash that I will slim down and satalite from based on which season I am in. Also currently every year I rebuild about 1/3 of what is in my inch bag and bury what got replaced as backup and out of the way.

    Not seen in the bag is decades of knowledge from never living in a house with heat and sometimes water, growing food for other people professionally, growing food without ever turning on the water for a year, fixing every free machine I acquire, over a decade of perfecting evasion and ambush tactics in the sport of paintball against xmilitary, only using what I find to make everything I need tool wise, sewing the majority of my own clothing and bed, learning to deal with all sorts of infections and hurt from being outside, learning a majority of the local wild plants and uses and practicing some of it, dealing with and understanding the defense needed to handle the slough of thieves, rats, crop pest and disease. I do cherish my inch bag and train, familiarize with it as an additional prep but find the time I focused on accumilating experience is much less likely to be lost. For I am just one guy who doesn't go by bushcrafter, prepper, ultralight hiker, farmer or hunter, but instead a sovran individual who believes I can own a knife, although it is one knife and can be stolen or lost, but if you I can learn to create that which fills the needs of the knife, then I cannot lose it, and even more importantly teach others.
    Motomom34 likes this.
  9. arleigh

    arleigh Goophy monkey

    There is much to learn ,and much to acquire ,of course unless one intends on becoming a raider .
    Taking or attempting to take from those that had already invested, won't have much value among those that do the same thing.
    Keep in mind, people will be fearful, and shoot any thing that moves, or appears to be a potential threat or food .
    IMO if a person didn't care to practice storing goods while it was possible,, and there has been plenty of warning, it is likely they intend on raiding, and relying on the government for assistance . "these people are the problem."
    Having made no sacrifice, nor provision/investment on essentials, but dependent on others that did, will abuse every opportunity ,you can bank on it. and like the Taliban hide behind little children like human shields to weasel their way .
    In the dark ages children were considered vermin the same in poorer countries pleading to others for food and shelter .
    it's not something your going to get use to ,easily.
    Kids in stead of school, will be doing something to justify their existence, or go with out.
    it's not the way we want it, it is the way things get, in desperate situations.
    Certain levels of slavery will reemerge ,it is inevitable . IMO
  10. Oltymer

    Oltymer Monkey++

    Interesting 7 pages, and I hope it keeps on growing. I live in my BOL, so an INCH situation would have to be very drastic, but it could happen.

    Without wheels, I'm out of here with just my BOB, and whatever extra food I can cram in without overloading. If I have an operating motor vehicle, and the roads are passable and safe, then I could really load up with tools and gear. If a motor vehicle won't fit the task then I'd opt for a bicycle and load it up in mule fashion like the VC did in Nam, attach a stick to the handlebars and push it wherever I was heading, and if I finally got somewhere to settle in I'd have transportation other than walking. My mountain bike should be able to handle 300 lbs. in the panniers and strapped on the frame. Bicycles can go through the woods easier than carts as they have a narrower profile, and I would probably be avoiding major roadways.

    The first things I would pack in my INCH system would be a full sized axe, my largest cooking pot, largest cast iron skillet, extra blankets, extra tarps, extra rope, my bicycle tools (which can deal with many problems) in metal tool box, a tube of blue waterproof grease, can of high temp grease, floor air pump, hacksaw frame & as many extra blades as I have (30), carpenters handsaws, claw hammer, couple of lbs. of 16d nails, bundle of tie-wraps, brace & bits, high speed drill bits, files, rasps, shovel, 2 extra bicycle tires, extra spokes, extra brake pads, extra brake & gear cables, oil can, all the batteries in the house, 1 lb. of Red Dot gunpowder (good for apx. 1,400 rounds of down loaded ammo, but which has much more umph than a .22), brick of .22's, coffee can of already cast and lubed bullets, 2,000 large rifle primers, .30 cal. can of reloaded rounds for my weapon, 2 Lee molds for rifle (both modified to cast either bare base or base for gas check), Lee pocket re-loader, 2 break down rods & reels, small tackle box, whatever extra hooks and line I have at the time, old Pearson 55 lb. breakdown fiberglass bow along with quiver, arrows and assorted archery tackle, large first aid kit, lots of toilet paper, paper towels, soap, toothpaste, towels, washcloths, Big Berkey, 2 books on wild plant foods by Thayer (best I've ever seen and I've been at this for decades), some extra clothes, and the rest will be food, food, food.

    I did say 300 lbs. right? I'll have to put this kit together and get some pics, just too busy for the next couple of weeks to work with it, besides I need the practice and to start working the bugs out, so a good autumn project for sure. Might even toss in my metal detector if I can make it fit.

    Weapons of choice would be a 30-30 Winchester with standard iron sights (I still see good), and a.22 pistol (Saturday night Special, but works great). Rimmed cartridges work best when downloading, a .32 Special would be ideal, slower twist rifling won't clog up if using black powder, but I don't have one. Sheesh!

    All this INCH gear is above and beyond my BOB setup and would be instantly abandoned if necessary, and since I'm never coming home I'd torch my house and the out buildings on my way out to make sure nothing is left for any looters that might be coming up on my rear, don't want to enable them in any way.

    So, trundling down the path, dog on point and wife in tow headed for who knows where, Timbuktoo I guess...
    Motomom34 likes this.
  11. arleigh

    arleigh Goophy monkey

    I lived in the mountains and did lot of fishing both on the lake and in mountain creeks .
    I thought I had a lot of secret fishing spots ,but guess what .
    They weren't mine alone.
    I had a few camping spots I though were well enough out of the way no one else could find them , wrong again.
    Are you getting my point yet ??
    You may well find some one else's favorite spot, however you may have to either band together, or be willing to shed blood for it.
    and behind you may be another, with the same idea .
    Indians had serious war over hunting territory ,more so when times got thinner.
    So either you've got the power over the territory you claim, or some one else is going to give it a try.
    Oltymer likes this.
  12. arleigh

    arleigh Goophy monkey

    Bugging Out temporarily, is one thing.
    INCH = I'm Never Coming Home is a another.
    for a week or more a person doesn't need much if they know that are coming home to some semblance of normalcy .
    Bad weather you need; First aid, shelter, appropriate clothing, water, some way of warming up, and a defensive strategy. This is all that's necessary for a week or so. Add more ,when more factors come into play. the list grows exponentially with added issues, of travel, others (good or bad) , economic status, social issues, fire, flood, pandemic, earth quake, hurricane, ect.
    it is a fact that more than one or two things occur that complicate any event . Earth quake can cause fire and flood. "Fukushima"
    The less you own the less there is to worry about.
    The more you own the more resources you have at hand, which can also be a liability as well.
    The less you know, the less value you possess in bartering for your life.
    the better you health the better you can provide for your self but the weaker you are chances of survival diminish.
    The more you have, the more you have to barter with, in exchange for your life. till it's all gone.
    Gone as in use of trade or in wear or consumption.
    Cultured to be consumers, people depend on merchandising for living .
    One alone cannot produce all they need and want, but many assume that they can.
    Where will you find salt , unless you know how/where to get it ?
    In hot weather salt depletion can kill you as surely as thirst.
    with out air conditioning most every one is accustomed to life is very different . the homeless survive by going where there is air-conditioning public places but of those resources are gone they will die. same with winter time acquiring heat.
    Some of us are familiar with camping in the winter but few understand what it's like living year round in a tent .
    But how about living in a tent and in an aggressive environment ,not just wild animals but men that have turned wild .
    That world is very different . but the weather and sun do not adjust for those things the will continue doing what they always do and likely get even more severe.
    If your supplies are based on a fantasy of nice weather, you've cut your self short.
    If your depending on wild life , Post SHTF there won't be much wild life.
    As many times is I have beat this subject to death, there is no getting around a solid community.
    A band of people cross trained and devoted to one another , desperately determined to survive.
    People with team work learn new skills and sharpen one another with sustained living gardening and producing all those things necessary to sustain and maintain security and discipline in the group indefinitely.
    Every one may not be a black smith, but having a working knowledge of the trade among the security detail out side the perimeter, can harvest/scavenge materials for enhancing the strength of the group .
    Some one with a strong knowledge of herbology among the team can harvest plants important to the group .

    A highly disciplined group will thrive, but the hard part is being able to manage a world of folk that want in, having nothing to contribute but their decease, and another mouth to feed.

    I recommend along with lists of gear; books with different aspects and differing opinions on survival .
    The military provides several survival and medical books in surplus the should also be included.
    Also books on plant identification as well as animals, insects, and elements.
    I believe it is foolish to rely on electronic memory for these things.
  13. oil pan 4

    oil pan 4 Monkey+++

    What about some kind of hatchet?
  14. ghrit

    ghrit Bad company Administrator Founding Member

    I've always advocated for a 3/4 axe rather than a hatchet under nearly all circumstances. The more so, if you aren't going home to resupply as in INCH situations. Some regard that as heresy in this day and age of population density, but not to the old timers that had lots of woods experience.
    chelloveck likes this.
  15. oil pan 4

    oil pan 4 Monkey+++

    Oh yes me personally I'm going full on ax.
    I was just thinking a hatchet might fit better on or in a bug out bag.
  16. BTPost

    BTPost Stumpy Old Fart Snow Monkey Moderator

    If I am carrying it, then my Kukuri will suffice, as it is already there... If I am going to build something, then maybe a BeserkerAx is what I want, for Major Chopping. In between, I have got along, with the Kukuri, just fine for 50 years...
    chelloveck likes this.
  17. Homer Simpson

    Homer Simpson Monkey+

    Interesting and good list. A few things I almost always have handy are a sawzall wood cutting blade and a sawzall metal cutting blade, both about 9 to 12". A pair of medium vise grips (great for holding the sawzall blades) and a 1" or so wood chisel. I know the folding saw is better then the sawzall blade and vise grips, but for a minimalist I feel the vise grips have more versatility. I carry a "handle" that the sawzall blades fit into most of the time. The wood chisel I find well worth it's weight for bush crafting, as it makes dove tails much quicker, easier, and safer.

    As always ymmv, but these are things I like to have handy in my ao.
  18. AxesAreBetter

    AxesAreBetter Monkey+++

    I like to pair a hawk head with a 30ish" handle and a 22", which gives me the full utility of a hawk or half ax without having to pack both.
  19. arleigh

    arleigh Goophy monkey

    INCH type event ,largely depends on if i have to run or hide in the bush.
    "If" hiding in the bush is even slightly possible, you are going to need every single mechanical advantage you can afford to haul along.
    if food is thin then calories count, little tools take more work a lot more work.
    If your making a shelter and other structures ,a little saw won't last long and neither will you.
    All tools have their place, having a range of tools works best .
    Much like repetitive motion can cause carpal tunnel, having carrying tools to handle carrying operations makes the work less wear and tear against your body.
    Ever use a philips screw driver too small for the screw, and both the screw and the driver are ruined.
    Think of that happening in the bush, and you have no back up, because you are a minimalist.
    How you value your life, is how you will prepare.
  20. chimo

    chimo the few, the proud, the jarhead monkey crowd

    My preps way out-value my worthless life. I think it's how much I value the lives of those who depend on my preps that drives me.
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