Interesting read...and response.....

Discussion in 'General Survival and Preparedness' started by dragonfly, Nov 19, 2009.

  1. dragonfly

    dragonfly Monkey+++

    This is from JWR'S "survival Blog"....
    Retreat Security: I Am Your Worst Nightmare, by Jeff T.

    I am the leader of a band of 8-to-12 looters. I have some basic military training. We move from place to place like locusts devouring everything in our path. My group is armed with light weapons and can develop and follow simple plans of attack. We take what we want by force of arms. We prefer none of our victims survive because that could cause problems for us in the future.
    It has been six months since the grid went down. You and the other five members of your party have settled into what may be a long grinding existence. The every day tasks of growing and gathering have now become routine. The news from the outside is extremely limited but you don’t really miss it much. Life is simple but physically demanding.
    Although things may seem stable you will need to keep your team focused and alert. This is your first and most important layer of defense. You should hold an immediate reaction drill once per week. Keep things simple. Practice a specific response to such threats as injury, fire, attack and evacuation. Despite the challenges you must maintain contact with those around you such as neighbors for vital clues that trouble is brewing. Regular monitoring the radio will be critical in providing an early warning of trouble. You may be able to safely interview refugees with risking your party. Keep in mind the information you get from them may not always be reliable.
    While you have been farming I have been learning the best tactics to employ to seize your property and your goods. I have been refining them since we hit the road right after the lights went out. I have conducted eight “hits” so far and have been successful seven times. Here are some of my “lessons learned”.
    Intelligence gathering and target selection is critical to my success. Targets include those who have large quantities of fuel, food and other valuable supplies. My posse is constantly questioning anyone and everyone we contact searching for this our next victim. Anyone who has ever had knowledge, even second hand, of your preparations is someone of interest to me. I may approach them directly or indirectly. If anyone knows something I will find out about it. Who seems well-fed? Who still has transportation? Who has lights? Who was prepared? Where are they exactly? Somebody talks, either in person or on the radio. They always do.
    We search for victims night and day. During the day we are listening for the sounds of machinery, cars, tractors, gunfire or generators. Day or night without a lot of wind those sounds can carry for miles. At night I look for any sort of light. Even a small flash indicates somebody with electricity and that means a rich target. I always have somebody listing to the scanner for any news, leads or insecure chatter.
    Operational Security (OPSEC) is an important concept for your entire group to understand and maintain. If somebody outside your circle doesn’t have a real need to know about your plans, preparations or procedures then they shouldn’t know period. Develop a cover story and live it like was a bulletproof vest. It is no less important to your protection and survival. During an event you need to blend in with the surrounding environment. Carefully observe noise (such as generators and other engines) and light discipline especially at night. If you need to test fire weapons do it in one sequence to avoid a prolonged noise signature.
    Once I find and target you reconnaissance of your retreat is my next step. Only a fool would try to rush in and try to overwhelm a group of “survivalists”. We had a bad experience with that during our second hit. Now we spend at least a day or two trying to size up a large opportunity and the best way to take it down. I will observe retreat activity from a nearby-concealed position. I will get an idea of your numbers, weapons, routines and so much more by careful surreptitious observation. If your group seems alert, I will try and trigger a false alarm with a dog or child to watch your reaction to a threat. That helps me know how you respond, where you are strong and how to attack. I may also obtain a topographical map of the area to identify likely avenues of approach and potential escapes routes you will try to use. I may coerce your neighbors into uncovering a weak spot or access point or other important intelligence. I also have a Bearcat handheld scanner. I will be listening for any insecure chatter from your radios.
    Regular patrols at irregular intervals focused on likely observation points and avenues of approach could keep me at bay. You could put down sand or other soft soil in key choke points as a way of “recording” if anyone has recently traveled through the land. Dogs, with their advanced sense of hearing and smell are able to detect and alert you to intruders well in advance of any human. Motion sensing IR video cameras as a part of a security plan could play a part in your layered defense as long as you have power. A 24 hour manned observation point equipped with high quality optical tools is a must. It should be fortified and if possible concealed. It should have a weapon capable of reaching to the edges of your vision. Seismic intrusion devices, night vision and thermal imaging are phenomenal force multiplying tools. They can give you critical intelligence and warning. You should use them if you have them. Understand they are not fool proof and I can often neutralize them if I know you have them.
    These tools and techniques provide you reaction time. Time to plan your response and time to execute that plan. Recognize that a “defender” is always at a disadvantage. By definition a defender will be reacting to my attack. Modern warfare has emphasized the ability of the attacker to operate faster than opponents can react. This can be explained by the OODA loop. Below are the four steps of the classic OODA loop. These are the steps a defender goes through when under attack.
    1. Observing or noticing the attack.
    2. Orient to the direction, method and type of attack.
    3. Deciding what the appropriate response will be.
    4. Acting on that decision.
    As an attacker I will try and operate at a pace faster than you as a defender can adjust to. I will change my direction, pace, timing and method to force you to continue to process through the OODA loop. This creates confusion and wastes your precious reaction time. As a defender you will need to disrupt or reset your attackers timing with a counter-attack. When you are successful you become the attacker. Your defensive plans should utilize and exploit this concept. Here are a few scenarios:
    1. Snipe & Siege
    I will begin the attack when I can engage at least half of your party’s military age personnel in one coordinated effort. I will infiltrate my team into concealed positions around your retreat within 50 to 75 yards. I will target any identified leadership with the first volley. Two thirds of my people will be engaging personnel. The other group will target communications antennas, surveillance cameras and any visible lighting assets. I want your group unable to see, communicate or call for help. The members of my band will each fire two magazines in the initial exchange. Two thirds of my group will change to new concealed positions and wait. One third will fall back into an ambush of the most likely avenue of escape. We will stay concealed and wait until you come out to attend to your wounded and dead. We repeat the attack as necessary until any resistance is crushed.
    Ensure you adjust the landscape around your retreat so that I don’t have anyplace offering cover or concealment within 100 yards of your residence. You can create decorative masonry walls that can be used to offer cover for personnel close to your residence. Fighting positions can be built now and used as raised planting beds and then excavated for use in the future. These can be extended or reinforced after any significant event. These structures or other measures such as trenching must be sited carefully to avoid allowing them to be used effectively by an attacker if they are overrun.
    2. Trojan Horse
    For one hit we used an old UPS truck. We forced a refugee to drive it to the retreat gate. We concealed half our group inside the truck. The truck was hardened on the inside with some sandbags around the edges. The other half of our group formed an ambush concealed inside the tree line along the driveway. We killed the driver to make it look good and had one person run away. Those preppers almost waited us out. After nearly three hours they all walked slowly down the driveway. They were bunched up in a group intent on checking out the truck and driver. It was like shooting fish in a barrel.
    They could have worked together as group to sweep the area 360 degrees around the truck and they would have surely found us. A dog would have also alerted the residents to our presence. They could have taken measures to eliminate the vegetation offering us concealment on the road near the gate. They could have used CS gas or something similar to “deny” any suspicious areas. Lastly they could have done a “reconnaissance by fire”. Shooting into likely hiding spots, including the truck, trying to evoke a response. They should have established an over watch position with the majority of their group. This over watch group would have provided visual security and an immediate response if there were an attack. They were not expecting any additional threats. They didn’t consider that there might be additional danger lurking nearby aside from the truck and they died.
    3. Kidnap & Surrender
    A few weeks ago we surprised and captured a couple of women out tending a garden. It was totally by chance. We were traveling through a very rural area on our way to another town when somebody heard a tractor backfire. We immediately stopped and I sent a small team to recon the noise. They bumped into a small party tending a field at the edge of their retreat. They seized two women and immediately dragged them back to our vehicles. We began negotiations by sending a finger from each one back to the retreat under a white flag. The rest was easy.
    This didn’t need to happen. Better noise discipline would have kept us from discovering their retreat. Some simple boundary fencing or tangle foot could have delayed us. The women should have been armed and aware of such a threat. If they has established an over watch for the garden they could have engaged us before we took our hostages or at least alerted the others that there was a problem. They also could have had a quick reaction SOP developed prior to this incident. That Quick Reaction (QR) force could have followed the kidnappers back to our vehicles and set up an ambush of their own. Rural retreat security is a full time job. If you snooze you may lose everything.
    4. Fire and Maneuver
    I don’t like this option but sometimes the prize is just too tempting. We typically infiltrate quietly at night to prearranged start points. We begin our attack just before dawn when your senses are dulled by a long night watch or from sleep. Based on our reconnaissance we divided your retreat into positions or zones that need specific attention. We prepare for battle by using an air rifle to target any lights or cameras. Our first priority is to engage any LP/OP site and destroy or degrade them as much as possible. I split my forces into two supporting groups. One group keeps the target position under constant fire. The other group also fires and maneuvers, closing on the target and destroying it with gunfire or improvised weapons. Many times these positions only have one occupant and the task is relatively easy. Often these positions are easy to spot and are too far from each other to provide any effective mutual support. We will work from one position to the next. In the darkness and confusion most of the defenders are disoriented and ineffective. They fall like dominos. We have also used motorcycles to negotiate obstacles and speed through cuts in the perimeter fence. Then throw Molotov Cocktails into any defensive position as they roar past. If you fall back into your residence we will set up a siege. If we can maneuver close enough, perhaps by using a distraction, we will pump concentrated insecticide into your building or we may introduce LP gas from a portable tank into the house and ignite it with tracer fire.
    If there was enough warning time from your OP you could execute a pre-planned response. Your planned response should be simple, easy to understand and execute. Half your group occupies your fighting positions, two to a position. The rest of your party establishes an over watch and concentrate its fire at the enemies trying to fix your positions. If you had more than enough prepared positions the enemy might not know where to attack. It would also provide more flexibility in your defense based on the direction of attack. I would use Night Vision if available or illumination from flares or lights as a last resort. Rats hate light.
    Usually people keep main access points blocked from high-speed approach. Likely avenues of approach should also be blocked or choked and kept under observation. Remember though what keeps me out keeps you in. Typically the common techniques of parking vehicles in roadways will only delay my approach not stop it altogether. An ordinary 12-gauge shotgun, shooting slugs, can stop most types of non-military vehicles at close range.
    Don’t forget the threat of fire or other non-traditional weapons in your defensive plans.
    You could create the illusion of a “dead end” for your main access road by positioning a burned out trailer home or a couple of burned out cars at the false “end” of the road. Concealing the fact that the road actually continues to your residence.
    Lastly, develop a plan to evacuate and evade capture. When faced with a significantly superior force it may be the only viable option. This should include simple, reliable communications or signals such as three blasts on a dog whistle. Your fighting positions and barriers need to be constructed to allow coordinated withdrawal in an emergency. You should establish a rally point and time limit to assemble. I believe this should be a priority in your practice drills. During a real emergency you may be able to rally, rearm and plan your own version of the “snipe and siege” to retake your retreat.
    Key messages:

    Your rural retreat defense can be visualized as a set of concentric rings:
    • Location – Location – Location: High and remote are best
    • OPSEC – Think of it as a form of armor or shield: Practice it and protect it.
    • Observation Post / Listening Post: Your first best chance to counter attack
    • Gates / Fences / other barriers: May slow me down. Might keep you in.
    • Fighting positions: Must provide mutual support and allow for evacuation.
    • Residence: Last line. Don’t become trapped
    • People, Planning and Practice
    • An aggressive and unexpected counter strike can win the battle.
    • Stay alert for multiple threats or diversionary tactics.
    • Criminals excel at feigning weakness to lower your guard.
    Don’t underestimate me.

    Reading for further study:
    The Defence of Duffer's Drift, by Major General Sir Ernest Dunlop Swinton (1905)
    1968 US Army Vietnam War Field Fortifications 132p
    Army - fm5 103 - Survivability
    Online OODA Resources

    This is my answer, ( not sent to the site!)
    This is in response to the guy ( Jeff T.) that wrote the letter to JWR's "Survival Blog" on the internet.

    He wrote as:
    As the leader of a group of individuals that raid, kill, and take what they so desire in the future.
    As this has been seen repeatedly by numerous "author's" of books dealing with the fall of the United States, and the ensuing horror's.

    Here is my response, somewhat "tempered", so as to NOT alarm anyone, with the tactics and devices which I currently have at my immediate disposal....

    I cannot go into exacting details, as many are considered inhumane and may be misconstrued as borderline, into the area of "Booby Trapping", which we all KNOW is absolutely ILLEGAL! ( Far be it from me, to USE my extreme knowledge of that particular subject material, here and now!)
    So, you and your band of 'marauders' are coming to attack, kill, rape, plunder, etc., etc., as was done so many years ago by the Vikings and Atilla the Hun did!???
    Well,.....Let me tell you, things have changed since then, and you will find out just what and how much so!

    Beware, as your very life is at severe risk at that exact point in time....Take that into consideration!
    I do NOT have an Army....I do not have military weapons, nor, do I need them!
    What I do have is some really serious and deadly knowledge!

    I was trained by some of the very best warrior's in the world, at least as far as I am concerned.
    You'd know them as the "V.C." ( Viet Cong) and their direct counterparts, the "Montagnards".
    I was a diligent student, and I listened and learned well the lessons taught in Vietnam. ( class of '71)

    Should you and your's decide to try to attack me and mine on my land,... you will encounter some rather interesting "distractions", if you will so indulge me!

    1st, the ditching around the exteror perimeter won't give you any pause at all, as you can simply "jump" over the ditch...
    BUT, you had best jump HIGH and LONG!
    There's a 2nd nasty little wall of trees, next in line for you and yours!( see ''abatis'' a French word, from the 'Argonne Forest', WWII). ( You never know what’s inside those trees!)
    And thirdly, a wall of large rocks commonly referred to as BOULDERS!
    Good cover for you huh?
    Yeah, ok, I'll be generous!

    So be it, but this was just a simple deterrent to "protect" "you" from "harms way"!
    ( You have NO concept of the twisted individual you are about to go up against!)

    Next, (#4), you'll enconter my 5-6 strand 4 point barbed wire fencing...
    Again, no big deal right?
    But,..... you should realize why it's there, it was not put up to keep you out...(just for the local cattle and animals!)
    RE: ( See the first "Magnificent Seven" Movie)

    Ok, So now you're in...
    And now you move about 2 feet or more (it's all really quite variable!) and then there's (#5), a heavy, smooth wired fence, that carries some nasty electrical charge ( not saying the amount that can be carried, I'll leave that up to your imagination, how much voltage can a .125" aluminum wire really carry?)
    Look it up!
    (Educate yourselves now folks!) ( my research shows up to 600Kv !!!)

    Ok, so you are able to "negotiate" that, and are home free?
    Not hardly!

    You have just entered: 'NO MAN'S LAND' now!
    Remember watching the "Twilight Zone", a TV series by Rod Serling?
    Welcome to MY world!

    So there you are, and the area looks and seems still and quiet...
    Until you move!
    You think the smooth soil and Juniper trees give you good cover and concealment?

    There are numerous IR's and sensors that detect any and all movements, and send a signal to people, who are just watching the monitors and cameras and such...
    ( Oh, did I forget to mention the motion activated IR devices, and cameras?)
    Yeah, they are there, and you have NO idea of where they are, and how many, and who is really watching who at that point, now do you?

    It begins to get very interesting from this point on .....!
    No doubt, you have already been 'spotted' prior to any entry, past the first fencing, and from an highly elevated position, you are now in the crosshairs of an experienced sniper or 2 or 3, with a really accurate, scoped, and "quieted" rifle....
    Just for you and yours!

    Now, there are more than one of these LP/OP's out there, and unless you have been on the "inside", you'll never have any idea of where the shots will come from!

    Let's be generous again, and say "we" decide to let you "advance" a bit further, before "we" react!
    You'll wish we'd have stopped you, before you move another step or two!
    There are some really nasty things awaiting for you now....!

    Ever hear or see of "tanglefoot" wire?
    Made of barbed wire, and it sets along the ground, to "trip" you!
    I have put a new "twist" on it...
    It runs in sections which overlap, and are from 2 to 24 inches in height....
    Designed to stop you by knocking you off your feet, or giving you some really severe wounds in your legs.....
    Now, "IF" you fall, I can only say, Gee, that's just too bad!

    You, WILL land on some rather nasty little spikes, made of nails, flattened, and sharpened on an anvil, but not complete, without their razor sharpened barbs on them!
    (Think of them as "fishooks!)
    ( They will have to be surgically removed!)

    But, you will be totally immobilized by these, as they are "fixed" to the ground by deeply driven anchors!

    Like I said before, I was a diligent and an exemplary student!
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    Next, you'll find that even if you do not fall, you WILL be entangled with buried boards, that are covered at certain intervals ( the best spacing for human feet) with those nasty spikes and drywall screws, that are razor sharp and penetrate damn near ever foot wear available today! ( it even penetrated our Vietnam "Jungle boots", that had a metal strip embedded in the soles!)

    They can't be simply pulled out like stepping on a nail either!
    They rip the flesh away with them when they are extracted, unless they are surgically removed with a scalpel!
    ( first, the boards have to be dug up, then the anchors removed, and then the footwear cut away...BUT, watch out for ANY boobytraps, just lying in wait under those boards, "if" you chose to move them!)

    Ah, I'm feeling really generous now!
    Let's say YOU are a well trained V.C., or Montagnard, or a Vietnam Veteran, and are are WISE in the ways of these little nasties!
    So, you travel a few feet more......(Uh Oh!)

    And there you are!
    You are now being educated in what I was trained in, and became excellent as:
    A "landmine and boobytrap" specialist!
    (You may want to think about that one for a moment or two....take all the time you need, as it's YOUR life and limb I'm now trying to remove!)

    You have just set off either: a whistle, a ground flare, an aerial device, a sound device, a flashbang, or something really NASTY I recently developed on my own, just for thugs like you!
    A Really nasty, "Oleoresin Capsicum", in varied amounts of concentration, up to 75-80%. ( seen that concentration ever before?
    NO! and You won't, as it is extremely dangerous and deadly!)
    (Research that, and find out what concentration is used for BEARS up in Alaska!)
    It will ruin your day,...... quite permanently, TRUST ME!

    On contact, it acts similarly like 'mustard gas,' instantly causing blistering and severe chemical burns!
    It was NOT designed to incapacitate you, nor do I use this as a deterrent....
    It is designed solely to STOP you, and, it most certainly will.

    If it's on your clothes, it's on you and anyone near you as is quite 'persistent' as I developed it with a petroleum based light weight oil, that easily and rapidly penetrates all skin and clothing...(Oh, did I forget to mention: it can't be washed off!)

    You will lose your sight almost instantaneously, and it will burn and blister your lungs, to the point that you WILL drown in your own fluids, all in all, about 3 minutes or less!
    You'll be permanently blinded, and you will begin begin to thrash around, in extreme pain and in fear of something you simply cannot fight, nor had any idea it was ever there, but,...WAIT!
    There are more nasties, you now cannot even see!

    Those are some 2 inch to 6 inch high "caltrops", all over the ground, awaiting for a wrong step, or a fall.
    Impaling you and again holding you there.
    They too are anchored, by deeply set anchor stakes...with those "fishook" type sharpened barbs!
    You won't be leaving...Certainly NOT on your own accord. (Guaranteed)

    Lets' say just for the sake of argument, you actually could 'bypass' all those devices....

    Well, by then, "WE" will be in our hardened and camouflaged bunkers, that you'll have no idea of what or where they are....
    You will run into a hail storm from the following:
    Gunfire from: shotguns, pistols, rifles, and even bows!
    But I have something really nice and SPECIAL awaiting you!
    Designed for such individuals are some: 7 barrelled devices, which is 18.5 mm and loaded with those nasty little steel 'armor penetrating darts' used in "BEEHIVE" rounds!
    (See "Vietnam and Artillery" shells!)
    I also have cannon, which can utilise nails and such as shrapnel rounds.....

    There, You see, I do NOT need a large security force, as most (I cannot define/nor disclose the exact types, and numbers), of devices that are "fully automatic" and are totally autonomous!
    You enter, you are in extremely serious jeopardy of loss of life and/or limb at best!
    I will see and hear you, long before you get close enough to do anything, but SCREAM and writhe in horror and pain.

    I have designed an area that is hard to penetrate by any wheeled vehicle, worse to attempt to try by foot.
    I am a trained specialist and I have expanded on that knowledge and training for the past 40 years....
    What I have discovered is: that it is extremely easy to stop a human being, and just as easy to kill them, as opposed to try to deter them.
    I have the experience, I have the knowledge, and, I have the time and the place.
    Consider that the alternative is maybe hunger and thirst, but at least, you are still alive!

  2. tacmotusn

    tacmotusn RIP 1/13/21

    Deleted my original post..... I hope not too late! a spammer posted here. a brand new member by the name of "rolexwatch" with their 1st post. My post following that one said " somebody get this frackin spammer. When the Moderators got the spammer over an hour later after I shut off the computer they left mine. Dragonfly who has given us plenty to think about and an excellent post thought I was talking about him. Dragonfly, .... I in no way expected this to end up where you thought I was calling you a frackin spammer. I apologize whole heartedly and sincerely for the miscommunication. Please accept my apology and stay with SM.
  3. dragonfly

    dragonfly Monkey+++

    Sorry. NO spam, just fact!
    Guess I made the ultimate mistake of underestimating the folks here also...?
    Who knew?
    Ok, I'll go away!
  4. RightHand

    RightHand Been There, Done That RIP 4/15/21 Moderator Moderator Emeritus Founding Member

    tacmotusn wasn't referring to you dragonfly - there was a spam entry into your thread that was deleted and the spammer banned. Sorry for the confustion.
  5. Brokor

    Brokor Live Free or Cry Moderator Site Supporter+++ Founding Member


  6. tacmotusn

    tacmotusn RIP 1/13/21

    not very funny broker. Dragonfly has had some good posts. I feel terrible that he left so abruptly, and over a miscommunication.
  7. Seacowboys

    Seacowboys Senior Member Founding Member

    He had some interesting posts but stop beating yourself up over it; anyone that touchy ain't gonna make it long anyway. JMHO
  8. dragonfly

    dragonfly Monkey+++

    I have had other "issues" that have depleted my sense of fairplay and patience.
    My bad!
    My apologies to you all.
    I'd like to say "it's just been a bad week or so", but, it just keeps hammering every day lately!
    No time, no funds, and my hair went from gray to snow white!
    (no dwarfs yet though!)
    Despite all my precautions, and making some large (2 ft x 3 ft) red letterd signs on a white background, stating "danger, no trespassing, keep out", someone always has to see if it's real or not....
    I may be sued for using 4 strand barbed wire fencing.
    On my own property, properly posted, even though I am a newbie to the area, there are literally hundreds of fences there, and some people got seriously hurt...there are not more than 6 signs in use, in hundreds of acres and plots of land...
    Mine has 36 alone on 4 1/2 acres!
    They were in the process of running away from being caught in a burglary attempt on a place above me on the mountain....the man, (owner), was away in a hospital and my caretaker was feeding his cat and 3 dogs, and watching over his place.
    The people that did this tried to run their dirt bikes downhill, and hit the fencing at about 25-30 mph. They are all severely injured, cut by rusted old barbed wire that was given to me.
    1 of those hurt is only 10 or 11 years of age...he was with 2 men (relatives from all I can get so far) and was badly injured. But, he was seated behind one of the 2 men on a motorbike and was thrown only (maybe) into the top/uppermost strand. It appears he may have hit his face on the back of the driver's head operating the motorbike. Be that as it may be, it is horrific.
    Luckily, my man has cell phone and there is a large open clearing for a flight for life helicopter to land about 3/4 of a mile away.

    Since I am NOT related, I can get no information on their conditions, etc.

    That wire is old and badly rusted. I was amazed it didn't break.
    I could not afford to put up "T" posts every 10 feet yet, so I used staples and stapled the stuff to juniper trees. Not very sturdy either!
    Now, the question remains my liability for their stupidity and not seeing any signs posted around and what that means.....

    As I was dealing with that, we had to undergo a county health officials inspection here in Phoenix, 150 miles away from the other tragedy.....
    Someone called the city inspectors on someone else, they got mad and then they called in the county, and next the state wll get involved...
    Meanwhile 95 people are in limbo and may be evicted and the park here closed...
    The owner is mad as he wanted his rent monies paid on the 1st and the county said not to take ANY money, as they may be evicting all of us!
    2 old guys, (separate site managers) fighting over a septic tank leak!
    Now they want to inspect and check the codes on every vehicle here, the taxes having been paid to date, and any code violations on some 95 mobile homes!
    Then we had a storm here last night! I lost 2 van windshields, and my sons mobile home has a 2 ft gash in it from a tree limb......we had wind gusts in excess of 70+ mph.....
    I may just throw in the towel and move to Kalifornia and live on the beach!
    ( fat chance!)
  9. Minuteman

    Minuteman Chaplain Moderator Founding Member

    Dang Bill!!! When it rains it pours huh? Sorry to hear about your troubles. But we are glad to have you back here at the Monkey. I've found over the years that this place is great therapy. No matter what is going on in my life I can always come here and vent, get a laugh, learn something, or just kill some time forgetting about my problems.
    I'll pray your situation improves and for the injured boy. It's a shame that he got so severely injured. I hope the adults with him are prosecuted to the full extent of the law. Maybe it will be a good lesson for him.
    To pursue you for thier criminal stupidity is just plain wrong. But that is the society we live in. Let's hope and pray that we can change it.
    Keep your head up!!
  10. gunbunny

    gunbunny Never Trust A Bunny

    That's always the way it is, nowadays. Perps fleeing the scene get injured by their own means and then sue the property owner. Yeah, if YOU try to prosecute, you cannot bring the fact up that they were running from the law in the first place. You can only bring up the fact that it happened on your property. Kinda like trying to juggle with your hands tied. You can bet your life on the fact that they will find any insignificant thing they can and turn it against you.

    The only advice I can give is a hard learned lesson: 1) the amount of justice you get from the legal system is directly proportionate to the amount of money you put in it. 2) Lawyers seem to all cost about the same, reguarldess of the fact that they are NOT created equal; some are better than others, much better. The problem lies in finding the good ones.
  11. E.L.

    E.L. Moderator of Lead Moderator Emeritus Founding Member

    Thoughts and prayers your way Dragonfly. I hope that all of the injured recover, and that it won't cost you a dime. People should be aware of who's land they are on at all times.
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