1. We are sorrowed to report that one of the Founding Members has passed on. Dee (Righthand) is well remembered as contributing much to the operation of SurvivalMonkey, and is already greatly missed. Little lady, big person.

Katrina What was Law Enforcement & Personal Safety Like? Apologies I Didn't Follow it Intensely

Discussion in 'General Survival and Preparedness' started by ED GEiN, May 20, 2017.

  1. ED GEiN

    ED GEiN Monkey++

    For me Katrina was the Poster Event for SHTF. While I would have evacuated and think the people who didn't were idiots, I am really curious what personal safety was like. If you chose to stay and lived in a middle class or better area during the crisis, were you pretty safe from harm from others? I'm asking this to get a picture if for SHTF situations as opposed to TEOTWAWKI, personal danger is overstated. Essentially I'm wondering if people who chose to remain in their "good area" and kept themselves barricaded at home with plenty of food and water, were safe during the crisis because of threat of prosecution afterwards.

    My personal belief is SHTF is temporary as opposed to permanent and while crime will increase a bit, one is relatively safe barricading themselves in at home if they live in a good area.. I believe most people won't be willing to commit a crime knowing they will be prosecuted later. For TEOTWAWKI that would not be the case because there is not justice system and anything goes. Agree or Disagree with my premise?
    Last edited: May 20, 2017
  2. Legion489

    Legion489 Rev. 2:19 Banned

    Good friend was in the Nat Guard and was shipped there. It was FAR worse than the press ever dreamed about telling you and probably worse than you can imagine. Cops? Typical cops. Rob the honest, ignore the criminals, same as always. Rape? If you didn't have a gun (which the cops stole and either kept, or threw in the canal, or sold to a criminal) you were SOL if a White female. Remember Nagan the "chocolate" mayor said that once it was destroyed and the Whites gone, he wanted to KEEP IT as an all "chocolate city"! Can you imagine what a WHITE mayor would have gone through if he said he wanted an "all White (ie; crime free) city"?
    Motomom34, Ura-Ki, Brokor and 3 others like this.
  3. ED GEiN

    ED GEiN Monkey++

    Yeah, that part I grasp, and that is reality to me. What is unclear to me though is, if you didn't leave your home/apartment and just barricaded yourself in, were you safe? In my view, if you were out and about during it, you were asking to be a victim. No dispute on that for me.
    Ura-Ki and UncleMorgan like this.
  4. UncleMorgan

    UncleMorgan I eat vegetables. My friends are not vegetables.

    Locking your door would be no guarantee of safety. Without Rule of Law, people will do whatever they want to do precisely because they know they will never be prosecuted.

    Don't forget that during Katrina it was the cops that were stacking up and kicking doors in so they could forceably evacuate people that were in no danger, and confiscate lawfully-owned firearms.

    If the local scumbags decided you had something they wanted, you'd be swarmed, pure and simple. If the cops didn't kick your door down, the locals would.

    Selco had a lot to say about that. (SHTF School – Real Life Survival Experiences) His website seems to be pay-per-view now, but I read quite a bit about his experience in the Balkans before he went commercial.
    Motomom34, Ura-Ki, Yard Dart and 3 others like this.
  5. Tempstar

    Tempstar Old and crochety Site Supporter+

    I operated liaison stations in SC for amateur operators in NOLA after the event. Basically there was two weeks of looting raping and pillaging, sewage in the streets, dead animals floating and stinking, and blacks running wild. One of the operators I was working with went silent for an hour, and later came back on telling us he was silent because a bunch of blacks were trying to steal his chained up generator and break into the converted ambulance he was using. They finally gave up and moved on. The biggest thing I took away from reports I personally received is that the blacks ran wild and fearless, taking anything they wanted and assaulting anyone in their path. Things they couldn't take they tried to destroy or burn.
    From a prepper perspective, nothing was open and the few things that tried to stay open soon had to close due to roadblocks by police. Authorities tried to gain control by using food and water distribution points and photographed everyone who came for assistance (no idea why). The NOLA police mostly vanished and tons of gear is still missing. Travel was restricted even to residents and vehicle searches were common to vehicles leaving the area. The National Guard was said to have done the best job of anyone responding, remaining couteous and helpful. Most operators I talked with were concerned with their safety even though they operated with LEO or emergency personnel.
    UncleMorgan, ED GEiN, Ura-Ki and 3 others like this.
  6. techsar

    techsar Monkey+++

    You know, if you weren't here and don't know WTF you are talking about, then quit bashing LE. Some were bad, yes. But a lot more saved the bacon of many folks, including covering for those that employed "shoot the looter."
    Nagin always was an @$$.

    At last count that was a whopping total of....three.

    We now return you to your previously scheduled gossip.
  7. arleigh

    arleigh Goophy monkey

    I was shocked, seeing it in the news, at work when I confronted coworkers, that flatly said "I don't care ,it's not happening to me "
    and that from black folk .
    The immature disconnect people live in, simply because an event is taking place some where else, boggles my mind.
    From what I've been told by those that came from that area , is that the county had been receiving money from the government, for the rebuilding of the levy ,for many years previous to the event, but they squandered it and lined their own pockets with the money.
    I don't think any thing has ever been done about that either.
    I think what triggered the gun removal was the helicopters being shot at ,trying to assess the damage, and do rescue operations.
    Clearly the disconnect between the LEO and the people they are there to serve, was key to this whole confrontation .
    You have to admit ,when that video of cops rough handling the old woman and taking her only protection, really P.O.ed a lot of people. the distrust was nation wide.
    FEMA really fell down on this one as a national agency,
    But I think that's where the problem lies .
    Communities should be responsible for their own preparedness and learn to work as a community to help one another and not be dependent on the government .
    I was on a different survivalist board at the time, with national and world wide input.
    I lived at Big Bear lake during the 6.2 that seemed to shake forever . and that community was filled with people stuck there on the weekend Sunday from off the hill for several days, till the roads could get cleared again .
    local hotels and home opened there doors and helped the homeless stranded and those that lost their home in the event.
    I ( SAR) was stationed at the high school to watch over a few hundred the had no where else to stay.
    No looting no misbehavior even though gas stations ran out of fuel, and grocery stores and restaurants went empty, ever one got along realizing the seriousness of the situation.
    When fire threatened the valley and evacuation was called , a few stayed , but we had proven our civility and authorities let a few stay . turned out the fire was stopped and few if any homes were lost.
  8. oil pan 4

    oil pan 4 Monkey+++

    I was over seas when that happened so I was unable to watch it unfold from the comfort of my living room on the 20 or so news channels that covered it.
    From what I could tell people were freaking out more when gas got over $3 a gallon then over what happened with new Orleans.
  9. 3M-TA3

    3M-TA3 Cold Wet Monkey Site Supporter++

    If you are going to survive in an urban environment then SHTF will have to be temporary. The main thing outside of fighting off any attacks is water, so plan on storing as much as possible - fill any bathtubs and containers before the water gets shut off or contaminated. Stop using warm water since what is in your water heater could be what keeps you alive. Continue to use tap water as long as it's available and safe. Find a way to not flush toilets after this happens. This will mean occasionally leaving the relative safety of your house or apartment.

    You should already know your neighbors. If you don't, find ways to meet them so you have an idea about their potential for mutual assistance or if you need to be wary of them. Barricading yourself can only work for a short while. Being an army of one can only work for a short time. You are better off working with others to provide mutual safety. Have you looked at your surrounding from a tactical perspective? Are their any sources of water like springs or irrigation reservoirs?

    Let's say you live in an apartment complex. If everybody barricades themselves in then a time will come where others short on supplies will start to make raids. Each individual apartment is easy pickings for a small group of raiders. It's quite easy to break in through the usual window facing an outside landing, but no door will keep a determined group out for very long. Like an elephant being eaten one bite at a time pretty soon each is raided. You will be lucky if you are left alone after they take what they want.

    Now let's flip that round a bit. Let's say that as soon as whatever emergency happens you meet with your neighbors in your apartment block and discuss mutual assistance. You find out there are a handful of walkie-talkies and a few with arms. You tell them about saving and then conserving water, which helps to protect your own supply. You discuss first aid supplies and maybe organize a small group to see if any supplies (food first aid batteries water purification etc.) can be got at whatever stores may be open and pool those resources. When it looks like things are going to go south set up a watch system that includes those walkie-talkies and post two at all times at the block entrance. If you can have someone on top or hidden where they can provide overwatch for the area then that's even better. You are no longer the low hanging fruit and will be avoided until things get truly desperate.
    RightHand, UncleMorgan and Motomom34 like this.
  10. Brokor

    Brokor Live Free or Cry Moderator Site Supporter+++ Founding Member

    There will always be lovers of oppression and slavery in every society, even if they don't realize that's what they are. In China, it's the "Lost Generation", who were devout followers of Mao's communist teachings and who are now in positions of power and exert their will upon the people, harming anybody they will to get ahead. In America, the police have become heavily militarized, and they work exclusively for the establishment. The establishment in America resembles a Fascist dictatorship, but is in actuality a very corrupt criminal corporate oligarchy. It is unfortunate we must experience the effects of boot licking and be criminalized for simply thinking freely and questioning the legitimacy of government. It is most unfortunate that "law enforcement" predominantly chooses to murder civilians daily and criminalize us all so their masters can profit. Even though we do have good police out there, this doesn't excuse the majority who still "obey the law" regardless if it's unconstitutional and choose to treat civilians like they are enemy combatants.

    We will have war in this country. Every police officer out there, be they corporate goons or servants of the people will have to choose which side they will stand when it all goes down. The people are becoming increasingly violent every day, and the ONLY answer the establishment has is to send out the jack booted thugs. This will not end well for anybody involved. They confiscated guns in the Katrina aftermath, and they will attempt to do it again, because a free people are a threat to the tyrant.
    UncleMorgan, Trouble, Ura-Ki and 6 others like this.
  11. mysterymet

    mysterymet Monkey+++

    I used to think Brokor was a bit in the tin foil hat relm on some things but as time goes on what he says makes more and more sense with what we've been seeing.
  12. Bandit99

    Bandit99 Monkey+++ Site Supporter+

    "They confiscated guns in the Katrina aftermath, and they will attempt to do it again..."

    I do wonder about this at times for it received such bad press and public outrage plus it was illegal. Anyway, I do wonder if they will indeed try again when the next SHTF event even after Katrina proved them to be wrong for multiple reasons. I know they would like to do so but...I am not so sure they will.
    UncleMorgan and Ura-Ki like this.
  13. Brokor

    Brokor Live Free or Cry Moderator Site Supporter+++ Founding Member

    What on Earth can the People ever do if they decide to do it again?

    Collectively? Nothing.
    In small groups? Protest. Then they will be shut down with mace and tear gas. And that will be it. The end.

    Modern day terrorism is a thinly veiled war on dissent. We are the terrorists, those who oppose government in any way. We are the terrorists, those who dare to resist tyranny. The police state buildup was not a mistake, it wasn't by chance, and certainly not coincidence. We welcomed this police state with open arms, and just like in the movies, the majority will also applaud their own enslavement. History repeats yet again, and all the signs tell us we're headed for war.
  14. Bandit99

    Bandit99 Monkey+++ Site Supporter+

    No you are absolutely correct in everything you said. But, my point, which I didn't make very well, is there was so much bad publicity that should they attempt to do this again they will be doing it with the full understanding that it is illegal and against the wishes of the people - as such - drawing the line in the sand. It will indeed be 'game on' and they will know this fully and will start slowly to see how much opposition is given. And that is the million dollar question, how much opposition. Will it stop them? No. For as you said, "What on Earth can the People ever do if they decide to do it again?" So, if or when they do this again, I would say it will be a breaking point, a trigger, and if they are not opposed, which I totally agree with you in it seems near impossible for numerous reasons, but if they are not even in the smallest manner then indeed all is lost and lost on that day. It will immediately become a test of will and resolve with damn near everything in their favor. And, make no mistake, those that oppose them will be eliminated no matter the outcome.
    UncleMorgan, Trouble, Ura-Ki and 2 others like this.
  15. Brokor

    Brokor Live Free or Cry Moderator Site Supporter+++ Founding Member

    Pretty much, yes. We are only speculating, of course...but it does look rather dismal. Any martial law type action and any gun confiscations would be frowned upon, but I wouldn't say it will be the proverbial line in the sand, because well...Katrina happened and that didn't do a damn thing as far as revolution goes. Also, any action such as this wouldn't be nation wide, it would be concentrated to that particular "crisis" area. Even if the people resist, they would need to organize and communicate, and that's not exactly a strength for the bulk of Americans if it isn't happening on Farcebook. We already know how controlled that social media site is, right?

    I believe more Americans really ought to phase out the AR-15 tacti-cool craze, and instead look into more long range equipment. Nothing is more deadly to an invading or occupying army than a sniper, let alone groups of them.
    avagdu, UncleMorgan, Trouble and 3 others like this.
  16. Bandit99

    Bandit99 Monkey+++ Site Supporter+

    "Katrina happened and that didn't do a damn thing as far as revolution goes."
    Correct. However, they did it when people really never thought they would do so and certainly never thought about the legal implications but now - well - it has been all over the news and throughout internet. All know it was an illegal act and the results of that act brought misery and harm to the people it was used against. When they do it again, they do it with the full knowledge people are aware that they are indeed breaking the law, exceeding their authority. The question then, which I suppose is a legal one, is if a LEO or government representative performs an illegal act, such as this, is the individual required to obey or can one legally resist the illegal act. Furthermore, the agency and supporting government that issues and performs this act is breaking the law and can be held accountable - and they know this - so unless they're ready to go to the mat I wonder if they will go this far. Or...will the government protect itself instead of the people it governs...which more than likely is what they would do.

    "...any action such as this wouldn't be nation wide, it would be concentrated to that particular "crisis" area."
    Yes, that is the problem and they would know this well and perhaps feel they could get away with it and by doing so set precedent. I suppose it will depends on the people in the area and if they will allow themselves to be used in that manner. I think the rest of the nation would indeed support them, some just lip service but others would be sincere, but first they must stand up by themselves...which is much easier said than done.
    UncleMorgan and Ura-Ki like this.
  17. Brokor

    Brokor Live Free or Cry Moderator Site Supporter+++ Founding Member

    Nah. [LMAO] I can go outside right now and ask 100 people in my area about Katrina, and I'd be surprised if a single one of them know anything about what's been censored by the mainstream media, including any legal action taken against the powers that be.

    It's easy for me to say this because I have read books like The Grand Chessboard by Brzezinski, Diplomacy by Kissinger, Tragedy and Hope by C. Quigley, and things like this. Or stuff like this.

    But, I do like the thoughts you've brought up! We can certainly hope more people are aware of what is going on, even if it only inspires us to keep spreading awareness. With any luck, cases like the Waco massacre or Katrina disaster confiscations won't ever happen again.
    UncleMorgan, Ura-Ki and Bandit99 like this.
  18. BTPost

    BTPost Stumpy Old Fart Snow Monkey Moderator

    Exactly correct, in My Opinion.... It has been proven to be the case, over and over, in Armed Conflict.... The Enemy Sniper is the Most Feared, and hardest to deal with, of ALL Combatants.... Revolutionary War, Civil War, WWI, WWII, Vietnam, Gulf War 1, gulf War 2... You name the Armed Conflict, the Enemy Sniper who is you need to get rid of FIRST... One Shot, One Kill.....
    UncleMorgan, Trouble, Ura-Ki and 2 others like this.
  19. Tully Mars

    Tully Mars Metal weldin' monkey

    I understand the point you are making and agree with the Tacti-Cool part but here's my take:
    I've come to view the AR-15 series of weapons as more of a weapons system. Especially for folks on a budget. Buy a complete rifle with a fixed stock. Or buy or build a complete lower with a fixed stock. Once this has been done a person can buy/build as many complete uppers as they wish. Plug n Play so to speak. Say you purchase a complete carbine length rifle, later on at the gun show you purchase a 24" bull barreled upper with free floating hand guards for another $325.00(What they are going for around here.) Top it with glass and you have a "sniper" weapon with the push of two pins that will easily cover any distance in an urban environment accurately. If we are talking occupying armies here, then add a home built suppressor because at that point you ain't giving a shit about the Batfags.
    Certainly the argument can be made for a .30 bolt gun, but to get the most bang for the buck the AR-15 WITHOUT all the warrior God stuff is still a good option. I have a couple of the old GI .22lr conversions that I keep in the BOBs along with some ammo. That with the aforementioned suppressor will cover small game and or a baddie that gets too close one night.
  20. BTPost

    BTPost Stumpy Old Fart Snow Monkey Moderator

    @Tully Mars makes a very good point, about Weapons Systems.... A Variety of Uppers with appropriate Optics, and accessories, (Like Suppressors, etc) for each Upper, and magazines that match the Cartridge of that Upper, makes a lot of sense... even with a couple Lowers laying around, you can mix and match, for the Job at Hand...
    UncleMorgan, Trouble, Ganado and 3 others like this.
survivalmonkey SSL seal        survivalmonkey.com warrant canary