Kerosene vs JP-8

Discussion in 'General Survival and Preparedness' started by sniper-66, Nov 20, 2007.

  1. sniper-66

    sniper-66 Monkey+++ Moderator Emeritus Founding Member

    Anyone know if a Kerosene heater will burn JP-8 without much work?
  2. annie

    annie Monkey+++

    Wikipedia says it is Kerosene based. Experience tells me that no one will give a straight answer on that one. (Manufacture & retail Liability issues) OTH if it were me, I'd probably try mixing a small amount, half & half take it outside & light it & pray ! If it seems to hot, try 3:1 ratio.

    Have used Kero to heat & it was hard to find, & hauling was NOT fun. But may also be doing it again.
    If it works, got any extra JP-8 to share ? lol annie
  3. sniper-66

    sniper-66 Monkey+++ Moderator Emeritus Founding Member

    When we preflight our aircraft, we take about a quart of fuel and then it is disposed of, I was thinking about this topic when I was inspecting the fuel cans we dump them in. I could spare some JP-8, but the hazmat fees are a beeotch!
  4. ghrit

    ghrit Bad company Administrator Founding Member

    JP-8 was under development last I heard of it. Was supposed to be able to fuel turbines, deisel, and gas engines with it. No idea if it has proven to do all, but it has been in use. Kerosene is essentially the same thing as jet fuel, just that jet fuel is more refined. No reason I can see that JP 8 could not be used in a heater. (Don't kill yourself with a pot burner, tho'.)
  5. sniper-66

    sniper-66 Monkey+++ Moderator Emeritus Founding Member

    All military vehicles have been converted to burn JP-8 now, the military is a one fuel military for the most part now. I know it takes a couple hours to convert a diesel over to JP-8, but I don't know what the process is to do it.
  6. Seawolf1090

    Seawolf1090 Retired Curmudgeonly IT Monkey Founding Member

    At the local Votech School for A&P (in my high school daze), we used kerosene in our T-33A trainer aircraft - it ran fine, though of course we didn't fly it. It was cheaper than JP4 at that time. We ran it in our project jet-car too - an old Rambler Marlin packing a J34 axial engine. The "Blue Goose" ran like a top!

    I wouldn't think a kero heater would be nearly as 'picky' as a jet engine. Try a small amount outdoors for a test.
  7. ColtCarbine

    ColtCarbine Monkey+++ Founding Member

    JP-8, or JP8 (for "Jet Propellant") is a jet fuel, specified in 1990 by the U.S. government. It is kerosene-based. It is a replacement for the JP-4 fuel; the U.S. Air Force replaced JP-4 with JP-8 completely by the fall of 1996, in order to use less flammable, less hazardous fuel for better safety and combat survivability. U.S. Navy uses a similar formula to JP-8, JP-5. JP-8 is projected to remain in use at least until 2025. It was first introduced at NATO bases in 1978. Its NATO code is F-34. It is specified by MIL-DTL-83133 and British Defence Standard 91-87.

    Commercial aviation uses a similar mixture under the name Jet-A. JP-8 in addition contains icing inhibitor, corrosion inhibitors, lubricants, and antistatic agents.

    JP-5 has even higher flash point than JP-8, but it also has prohibitively higher cost, limiting its use to aircraft carriers.

    Outside of powering aircraft, JP-8 finds its use as a fuel for heaters, stoves, tanks, and other military vehicles, and serves as a coolant in engines and some other aircraft components.

    JP-8 contains less benzene (a carcinogen) and less n-hexane (a neurotoxin) than JP-4. However, it also smells stronger than JP-4 and has an oily feel to touch, while JP-4 feels more like a solvent. Workers have complained of smelling and tasting JP-8 for hours after exposure. As JP-8 is less volatile, it remains on the contaminated surfaces for longer time, increasing the risk of exposure.

    JP-8+100 is a version of JP-8 with an additive that increases its thermal stability by 100 °F (56 °C). The additive is a combination of a surfactant, metal deactivator, and an antioxidant. It was introduced in 1994. The additive reduces coking and fouling in engine fuel system. Commercially, this additive is used in Boeing aircraft operated by KLM, and in police helicopters in Tampa, Florida. [1]

    JP-8 fuel is used at the Amundsen-Scott South Pole Station, for heating, electrical generation, and melting ice for water. It is used because it will not gel at low temperatures.

    JP-8 is also used by Army Food Service Specialists, cooks, to fuel MBUs-Modern Burning Units IAW Army Field Feeding Manuel FM 10-23.

  8. ColtCarbine

    ColtCarbine Monkey+++ Founding Member

    Jet fuel is clear to straw colored. The most common fuel is an unleaded/paraffin oil-based fuel classified as Jet A-1, which is produced to an internationally standardized set of specifications. In the United States only, a version of Jet A-1 known as Jet A is also used. See the section for Jet A below.

    The only other jet fuel that is commonly used in civilian aviation is called Jet B, a fuel in the naptha-kerosene region that is used for its enhanced cold-weather performance. However, Jet B's lighter composition makes it more dangerous to handle, and it is thus restricted only to areas where its cold-weather characteristics are absolutely necessary.

    Jet fuel is a mixture of a large number of different hydrocarbons, possibly as many as a thousand or more. The range of their sizes (molecular weights or carbon numbers) is restricted by the requirements for the product, for example, freezing point or smoke point. Kerosene-type jet fuel (including Jet A and Jet A-1) has a carbon number distribution between about 8 and 16 carbon numbers; wide-cut or naphtha-type jet fuel (including Jet B), between about 5 and 15 carbon numbers. [1]

    Both Jet A and Jet B may contain a number of additives:

    * Antioxidants to prevent gumming, usually based on alkylated phenols, eg. AO-30, AO-31, or AO-37;
    * Antistatic agents, to dissipate static electricity and prevent sparking; Stadis 450, with dinonylnaphthylsulfonic acid (DINNSA) as the active ingredient, is an example
    * Corrosion inhibitors, e.g. DCI-4A used for civilian and military fuels, and DCI-6A used for military fuels;
    * Fuel System Icing Inhibitor (FSII) agents, e.g. Di-EGME; FSII is often mixed at the point-of-sale so that users with heated fuel lines do not have to pay the extra expense;

    Militaries around the world use a different classification system of JP numbers. Some are almost identical to their civilian counterparts and differ only by the amounts of a few additives; Jet A-1 is similar to JP-8, Jet B is similar to JP-4. Other military fuels are highly specialized products and are developed for very specific applications. JP-5 fuel is fairly common, and was introduced to reduce the risk of fire on aircraft carriers (has a higher flash point - a minimum of 60 °C). Other fuels were specific to one type of aircraft. JP-6 was developed specifically for the XB-70 Valkyrie and JP-7 for the SR-71 Blackbird. Both these fuels were engineered to have a high flash point to better cope with the heat and stresses of high speed supersonic flight. One aircraft-specific jet fuel still in use by the United States Air Force is JPTS, which was developed in 1956 for the Lockheed U-2 spy plane.

    Jet fuels are sometimes classified as kerosene or naphtha-type. Kerosene-type fuels include Jet A, Jet A1, JP-5 and JP-8. Naphtha-type jets fuels, sometimes referred to as "wide-cut" jet fuel, include Jet B and JP-4.

    Jet A

    Shell Jet A-1 refueller truck on the ramp at Vancouver International Airport (notice the 1863 Hazardous Material placard and "JET A-1" stickers)
    Shell Jet A-1 refueller truck on the ramp at Vancouver International Airport (notice the 1863 Hazardous Material placard and "JET A-1" stickers)

    Jet A is the standard jet fuel type in the U.S. since the 1950s and is only available there. Jet A is similar to Jet-A1, except for its higher freezing point of −40 °C (vs −47 ° Jet A-1). Like Jet A-1, Jet A has a fairly high flash point of 38 °C, with an autoignition temperature of 410 °F (210 °C). Jet A can be identified in trucks and storage facilities by the UN number, 1863, Hazardous Material placards. Jet A trucks, storage tanks, and pipes that carry Jet A will be marked with a black sticker with a white "Jet A" written over it, next to another black stripe. Jet A will have a clear to straw color if it is clean and free of contamination. Water is denser than Jet A, and will collect on the bottom of a tank. Jet A storage tanks must be sumped on a regular basis to check for water contamination. It is possible for water particles to become suspended in Jet A, which can be found by performing a "Clear and Bright" test. A hazy appearance can indicate water contamination beyond the acceptable limit of 30ppm (parts per million).

    The U.S. commercial fuels are not required by law to contain antistatic additives, and generally do not[citation needed].

    The annual U.S. usage of jet fuel was 21 billion gallons (80 billion liters) in 2006. [2]

    A consortium consisting of Boeing, NASA Glenn Research Center, MTU Aero Engines (Germany), and the US Air Force Research Laboratory is investigating development of jet fuel blends containing a substantial percentage of bio-fuel. [1]

    History of jet fuel

    Fuel for a piston-engine powered aircraft (usually a high-octane gasoline known as Avgas) has a low flash point to improve its ignition characteristics. Turbine engines can operate with a wide range of fuels, and jet-aircraft engines typically use fuels with higher flash points, which are less flammable and therefore safer to transport and handle. The first jet fuels were based on kerosene or a gasoline-kerosene mix, and most jet fuels are still kerosene-based.

    Commercial fuels

    Commercial jet fuels had their origins in military fuels, but commercial use worldwide now greatly exceeds military use. As noted above, Jet-A is similar to JP-8, while Jet-B is a mix similar to JP-4.

    Piston engine use

    Jet fuel is very similar to diesel fuel, and a few aircraft engine manufacturers, most notably Thielert, have begun offering piston engines which run on jet fuel. The technology promises to be a way to provide light, powerful, and environmentally-friendly engines for the general aviation market while simplifying airport logistics and phasing out leaded avgas.

    Jet fuel is often used in ground support vehicles at airports, instead of diesel. The United States military makes heavy use of JP-8, for instance. However, jet fuel tends to have poor lubricating ability in comparison to diesel, thereby increasing wear on fuel pumps and other related engine parts. Civilian vehicles tend to disallow its use, or require that an additive be mixed with the jet fuel in order to restore its lubricity.

    Jet fuel - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia@@AMEPARAM@@/wiki/File:Shell_Refueller.JPG" class="image"><img alt="" src=""@@AMEPARAM@@commons/thumb/c/c5/Shell_Refueller.JPG/220px-Shell_Refueller.JPG
  9. ColtCarbine

    ColtCarbine Monkey+++ Founding Member

    Thanks for the education, I learned something today [gone]
  10. sniper-66

    sniper-66 Monkey+++ Moderator Emeritus Founding Member

    I guess I will just have to try it and see. I'll give a report when I do. We've used JP-8 for almost 10 years and the definition you brought up is pretty accurate. In the aviation community, JP-8 and Jet A are synonomous with each other. As for the additives, we use the anti-microbials, have to or you will have a science experiment in short order growing in your fuel tank. As for the Prist additives for anti-icing, that is added at the fueling point, we are prohibited from using it, doesn't provide any benefit in a jet engine, just a waste of money
    I guess my original question should have been to ask for a relative burn rate compared to Kerosene. All jet fuels are Kerosene based, diesel fuel is, if I am not mistaken, Kerosene and pariffin wax added. I am thinking that JP-8 isn't as refined as grade 1 Kerosene, so I'm thinking JP-8 will burn a little colder and dirtier than K-1. Guess we will have to see.
  11. ghrit

    ghrit Bad company Administrator Founding Member

    JP-8 fuel is used at the Amundsen-Scott South Pole Station, for heating, electrical generation, and melting ice for water. It is used because it will not gel at low temperatures.

    I was at the pole in 89 or 90, that's where I heard of it. At the time, the NSF was still burning (I think) JP-5 in the diesel equipment and the ski equipped Hercs. One of the motivations (for the NSF at least) was to prevent having to haul AvGas to the pole for surface equipment, to go single fuel. Nice to know the conversion has been completed. I do not know if they still need AvGas for anything, but at the time there were a number of small machines that did.
  12. monkeyman

    monkeyman Monkey+++ Moderator Emeritus Founding Member

    I know desil is interchangable for kerosine and would imagine the JP8 would interchange for both as well.
  13. sniper-66

    sniper-66 Monkey+++ Moderator Emeritus Founding Member

    Diesel engines need a conversion to burn JP-8, but I don't know exactly what, I know the fuel filter is one.
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