Land and partnerships....

Discussion in 'General Survival and Preparedness' started by dragonfly, Aug 27, 2010.

  1. tacmotusn

    tacmotusn RIP 1/13/21

    All this is very common in Florida and other southern states. I have seen leases much higher than that. One similiar that I belonged to for years was 7300 acres one tract. It had 27 lakes or ponds. was loaded with deer, hogs and turkey. Was $900 per year. limited to a maximum of 120 members. Land development eventually made it fold, but it was great while it lasted.
  2. Seacowboys

    Seacowboys Senior Member Founding Member

    It's a yearly payment of $1200.00
  3. tacmotusn

    tacmotusn RIP 1/13/21

    You get what you pay for. I would want to walk the property a bit unarmed if reguired just to get a feel for the animals present, and numbers. But note the annual fee of $900 was in 1980's money. How many acres do these folks you are talking about have under lease? How many members? Is there a maximun number of members cap? All these would be decision making factors. JMHO. I do not however like the 5 year lease cancellation provision. Most of these places if good hunting is available have waiting lists in 3 figures.
  4. Clyde

    Clyde Jet Set Tourer Administrator Founding Member

    There are two different opportunities being discussed here. The first is buying a piece of land with a partner (ownership) and the second is a License with fee (Seacowboy's option). Both are totally different. Licenses are revocable (hence, 5 years notice).

    1) Fee Ownership: without 50.01% ownership, you have nothing but the potential for a total pain in the ass. I am in 2 real estate partnerships as the moment. My equity value is well over $1.5 M. I wanted to sell these 3 years ago as I anticipated a major drop in home values, etc, and I wanted to be sitting on a pile of cash so I could react and act like a good capitalist and make real money by buying during the downturn. My partner was not interested. Since my partner is family, we didn't have a real good buy-sell agreement as we both were on the same page of owning until paid off when the partnerships started over 10 years ago. Now, we have different goals. So, without 50.01% ownership, you have not control.

    2) License Agreements: These are a good way to go if your goal is hunting. In many instances an single person will have a master hunting lease on the property and they then issue the $1,200 annual license fee to hunt on the property (I know nothing about Seacowboys deal so it may be different. This is my real estate mind at work). They lease it for $20K per year and then sell licenses to 40 members for $1,200 and then they make a $28,000 spread on the lease versus rent with specified "rules" for each member of the "club".

    3) Application to Groups: the only way to form a group is to be the sole owner of the land. You are in control of who enters your property and that is by invitation only. If you decide to have a partner or two, you always need to have control and a rock solid buy-sell agreement that you yourself have the funds to buy out the others. For instance, you buy a 20 acre parcel with 2 partners. You own 50.01% and the own 24.98% a piece. You have to have a way to value improvements, and land value as time goes on. If one decides they want out in 5 years, you can write the rules that it is the appraised value of the land multiplied by the partnership values to equal the buyout value. You can put what ever numbers into the equation. You can also dictate in the original agreement that the value is the initial contribution + carrying costs + improvements = equity value x ownership percent. This will limit the longterm buyout and your capital outlays if you have to take out a partner (without bullets!). Also, It is wise to have a "kick-out" rule that can be initiated if a partner does not pay their own way or violates the original partnership rules. After 2-3 defaults they lose their ownership vote and can be take out without their choice.

    Just a few thoughts to get this thread on track
  5. Brokor

    Brokor Live Free or Cry Moderator Site Supporter+++ Founding Member

    Yes, if you hold the title you can fight to not pay "rent" (tax) on YOUR land, but usually the FBI and the other men in black eventually show up and murder you. Just because "everyone" does it, it don't make it legal or justifiable. ;) There was a time when Americans didn't pay tax on property they owned. But anyway, I digress. Times have changed and the people will continue to slowly give in more until the corporations own every--wait. They already do, never mind. [monkeyeating]

    At least you are fairly secluded. Also, I believe New Hampshire property tax (especially near Nashua) is a killer compared to western MA.
  6. Detentus

    Detentus Monkey+

    Brokor, yes, NH property taxes are extremely high, but there's no sales orincome tax there. Anyway, some neighbors own substantial pieces of land( some have around 100 acres, some just a few, some many more), so they'd have to murder us all. ;-)

    It's a great spot. About a mile down the road is a river, too.
    Taxes are less than $1,000.00 a year. Have to ask my husband.
  7. dragonfly

    dragonfly Monkey+++

    Once upon a time.....
    I was in a large group that had appointed the sole land owner as the head of their gathering....The long and the short is, the land was not owned solely by this one person but by 3.
    1 was an ex-girlfriend, the second was her mother, last was the person mentioned above.
    Needless to say, as time went by, he had a new girlfriend, married her, and the land was GONE!
    You have to watch those patnerships!
  8. bnmb

    bnmb On Hiatus Banned

    That's what I said in the beginning...
  9. Pax Mentis

    Pax Mentis Philosopher King |RIP 11-4-2017

    Well...I don't have a monster plot of land, but I have 83 acres on which we live and an 80 acre gold claim down the road a ways that my oldest son works. The claim is part of about 2 million acres of national wilderness that starts about 4 miles down the river.

    As far as security, we have about 2.5 acres around the house fenced and gated securely, with just stock fencing on 3 sides of the rest (4th side is river). We also have 3 Rotties that roam during the day and are inside the secure area at night. There is really no need to try and secure the entire plot.

    We have about 8 acres in xmas trees for a little extra cash every year and the rest is pretty much "buffer" between us and the "outside world"...not to mention our savings account of firewood. I don't hunt for pleasure any it is also a bit of a food bank in case of SHTF.

    Our location is also the "bugout" destination for 2 of my brothers, 2 of my bros-in-law and 3 old friends...all of whom have food and equipment caches here and help out with various projects on their vacations from their various cities. It is actually 3 tax lots with approved homesites on the other 2 (1 actually has a house that is usable, but not occupied or in great shape) along with oversized septic systems and wells. We also have a "clubhouse" on our lot with septic and seperate well.

    We don't use all of the property and could certainly "get by" with less, but the buffer zone between our fence and the property limits just "feel good" to have out there for a guy like me who is something of a hermit.
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