Liquid metal batteries - the new storage media...

Discussion in 'Off Grid Living' started by DKR, Sep 22, 2019.


  1. DKR

    DKR Raconteur of the first stripe

    [​IMG]




    A lecture at Stanford University from professor Don Sadoway (MIT) about liquid metal batteries.

    Not some pie in the sky lab type battery - but designed from the beginning to be utility grade. Well worth the time to watch. Power densities are almost unbelievable.

    This research - and product - has attracted major commercial capital, so it is real enough to watch, even if still just on this side of the technology horizon...

    In short - these batteries are real life game changers -- and possible disruptors to the 'grid' as we know it today.

    You will learn about a new term - profitable sustainability
     
    Last edited: Sep 22, 2019
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  2. BTPost

    BTPost Stumpy Old Fart,Deadman Walking, Snow Monkey Moderator

    Would love to have a battery like that....
     
  3. oil pan 4

    oil pan 4 Monkey+++

    Need something like that made of cheap, common materials that lasts a long time.
    Looks like that is cheap and will last a long time.
     
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  4. Brokor

    Brokor Live Free or Cry Moderator Site Supporter+++ Founding Member

    Yes. Definitely a viable solution.
     
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  5. duane

    duane Monkey+++

    Hard to tell. Easy to make a few, hard to make thousands, use for 10 years, different climates, lack of maintainence, danger of terrorists, etc. Love to see it work, but real life has a habit of killing both dreams and unicorns. Sooner or later if we throw enough things at the wall something will stick. So far most of it has either not been able to be scaled up or in the long run been a con game.
     
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  6. DKR

    DKR Raconteur of the first stripe

    The robortics to make these is in place.
    The batteries are made for utilities, so maintenance isn't an issue in NA/
    Scaling up is easy - bigger is better.

    Will these work in Arctic Alaska? Maybe. WIll they work in SoAz - most certainly.
     
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  7. Cruisin Sloth

    Cruisin Sloth Special & Slow

    Thank You Mr DKR for posting
    Another Canuk gone nuts !!!!I
    It's in the water we drink , I'm putting in an order as soon as I can see what platform voltage is offered.
    My Classics and B17 can range , but the big Schneider's are limited , but software is in the works as we speak .
    Sparky-Sloth
     
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  8. Zimmy

    Zimmy Wait, I'm not ready!

    Awesome post DKR
     
  9. oil pan 4

    oil pan 4 Monkey+++

    Looks like about 1 volt per cell.
     
  10. DKR

    DKR Raconteur of the first stripe


    more on the 'commercial' sized battery

    mostly fluff - but does give a good idea on the size of th ething
     
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  11. DKR

    DKR Raconteur of the first stripe


    (poor speaker, but the data is telling)

    cheaper and more efficient solar panel using
    perovskites

    Yeah - I linked the word, the material has been around since the 70s, but just recently hit the solar panel market - this allows printing panels using ink. Cheaper to make, can be different colors to absorb different parts of the spectrum - and has reached 32% efficiently in the lab. BTW - current silicon cells are 22% efficient for conversion..

    Right now one company is coating silicon cells with a transparent layer of perovskite for increased efficiency - more power per panel acreage.... Not there yet, but another possible disrupt or to the embedded silicon solar cell factories...

    So?

    Rocky Mountain Power to build first solar farm in Utah
    Last September, Provo-based Energy Capital Group announced it was developing a 300-megawatt solar plant adjacent to the Intermountain Power Plant near Delta. The company announced that this will be one of the largest solar projects built, costing an estimated $600 million. The company is leasing 1,754 acres from the Utah School and Institutional Trust Land Administration. It said this location is ideal because of a transmission line going directly to California.

    That plant is expected to power an estimated 80,000 homes.

    This is one of several solar plants around the Intermountain Power Project. Designed as a 3 unit system, only two were built - leaving 30% 'excess' transmission capacity. Millard county now hosts wind and solar farms to power LA.

    [​IMG]
    coal plant with solar farm in background

    Have a couple of relatives with 'real jobs' at the plant. They squeegee the panels to keep the dust off of the panels. Pays the bill while they attend college on-line....

    Add in utility grade storage and the desert will really begin to bloom with solar farms.
     
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  12. oil pan 4

    oil pan 4 Monkey+++

    40% efficient cells do exist but they are around 30x the price of 22% efficient.
    Normal application for 40% efficient cells is satellites.
     
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  13. DKR

    DKR Raconteur of the first stripe

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  14. oil pan 4

    oil pan 4 Monkey+++

    That's looking like it will probably work.
    It looks so good I would be surprised if it didn't work out.
     
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  15. Cruisin Sloth

    Cruisin Sloth Special & Slow

    He is young and very Nervous , like I was once.
    Now im use to giving lectures and instruction in my trade .

    Sloth
    Old bear
     
  16. ghrit

    ghrit Bad company Administrator Founding Member

    The ambri blurb indicates that heat is needed to operate the cells. If not loaded, they go solid, and it isn't obvious that cold starts can be done. 700 degrees for nominal loading is somewhat hard to achieve without auxiliary power for starting the cells. Heat is generated during operation, so no problem when loaded, and they do say that a/c isn't needed. There are some things not mentioned in the sales blurb. The idea is pretty sound, with some, ah, if's, and's and buts.
     
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  17. Cruisin Sloth

    Cruisin Sloth Special & Slow

    I was thinking that also, but once in service and powered up they are up in temp.
    kinda stay at that , but if left off , then that could be a freeze out !!
    Good points , and making me do a Huuuuuuuuummmm
     
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  18. DKR

    DKR Raconteur of the first stripe

    When off-line (that is to say - cold) the system is completely inert. So safe to ship, store and set in place. Once connected to the grid, the system cells are brought up to temp.

    The first video mentioned this, but just in passing.
     
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  19. Cruisin Sloth

    Cruisin Sloth Special & Slow

    These cells are NOT connected to ANY GRID , THEY are DC , Grid is AC , so the inverter is one way , but the Charge controller is the unit to power up .
    S
     
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  20. arleigh

    arleigh Goophy monkey

    Since the 1980s I have been promoting the idea of using batteries, regardless of solar or wind.
    No one would listen.
    I got my inspiration from experience and pure common sense.
    I had friends that lived in foreign countries that he power was sporadic and unreliable, and a battery system would solve all that having NOTHING to do with alternative energy.
    You don't have to have solar for a battery system .
    With inverters power remains smooth with out fear of spikes or brown outs.
    Plus DC lights have always been more efficient than AC .
    Think about it,
    How often do you replace AC lights?
    How often have you replaced the lights in your car ?
    WELL ?
    Even if AC power were free, I would still be on a battery system.
     
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