Martial Arts?

Discussion in 'General Survival and Preparedness' started by TailorMadeHell, Aug 2, 2012.

  1. TailorMadeHell

    TailorMadeHell Lurking Shadow Creature

    Just wondering if anyone is in a martial art or are considering taking up a martial art. I have a buddy that's been involved in mixed martial arts for about 30 years. I am looking into Aikido and Kenjutsu. Aikido is the Steven Segal martial art. Aikido for defense and Kenjutsu for zombies if it gets that bad. I am not an expert, though I figure I can become well versed and practiced in it in about 20 years. I see it as a chance to better defend myself if it came to that and a chance to keep up good health.
  2. I have always wanted to. But have had 3 back surgeries, and starting to get Carple-tunnel. Any one know how, where, if I should start? Oh, and I am almost 45 and have been in better shape. Advise if you can.

    Sent from my Tactical Communication Device.
  3. Brokor

    Brokor Live Free or Cry Moderator Site Supporter+++ Founding Member

    I wouldn't say Aikido is Segal's art, lol. Anyway, I know what you meant. biglaff
    Yes, Aikido can be a serious study, and definitely a worthwhile undertaking with the right instruction. If you are serious about kicking butt, stick to the defensive arts which truly inspire offensive techniques --Systema, Ninjitsu, Juijitsu, Judo, Kung Fu, Taijitsu. The arts which are mostly focused on defense can be a wasted effort unless taken to the highest levels --Aikido, Tai Kwan Do, Karate. A nice middle ground may be Thai Kick Boxing or street fighting/mixed martial arts. I personally trained in Aikido for Systema since many of the primary disciplines are based around its teachings, and even the mental training alone is worth the effort even if the physical disciplines are not taken. The most amazing and lethal art, bar none is Ninjitsu --but, finding a teacher may prove difficult and their techniques will vary. Additionally, there are legalities involved which bar them from actually training you to use lethal force (unless you find an underground route).

    I guess what I am getting at is, I am not offering advice at all, just giving some ideas. Choose something and be the best you can at it, or at the very least get paid to look awesome like Steven Segal and become an honorary police MAN. [wannamesswitme]
    tulianr and TailorMadeHell like this.
  4. TailorMadeHell

    TailorMadeHell Lurking Shadow Creature

    Bushcraft, I will try and get in contact with my buddy though he just left out for offshore. Communications might not be in for a month if so. If I had to guess, I'd say working on any stretching program would help. I'm thinking Tai Chi. Not a pro or a doctor so I can't give an exact idea. I'm just thinking that it helps with different aspects of health. Aikido stretches may help as well, though I wouldn't suggest getting into the throwing parts unless your back can handle it. Depends on what kind of surgery you have had too. Range of motion may still be there and you may be able to do it. If you train, you may get thrown around a lot so I'm guessing that might not be a good thing. Though if you can somehow circumvent it so that you are always doing the throwing, then you don't need too much range of motion. Just my two cents.
  5. Brokor

    Brokor Live Free or Cry Moderator Site Supporter+++ Founding Member

    Are you talking to yourself? o_O
  6. mysterymet

    mysterymet Monkey+++

    Silat is a good one. Same with systema and kung fu. Body make up has a lot to do with selection too. Some arts lend themselves much better to small people like most females.
  7. sgt peppersass

    sgt peppersass Monkey+

    i've been interested in krav maga. thankyou for the post on the offensive/defensive attributes. I'll most likely look into kung fu or ju jitsu if krav maga isnt available.
  8. TailorMadeHell

    TailorMadeHell Lurking Shadow Creature

    As long as I don't answer my... Oh wait, I'm at the door. I'll be right back. Lol. I am currently reading Aikido and the Dynamic Sphere. Interesting stuff. Went the other day and watched my buddy get tossed around by a little asian lady. I surprise myself with the small stuff that I have picked up by just watching. Now I've got to craft a practice dummy. Will be enrolling in the class soon. I think it is the best art for me. Went and talked to a guy that is an instructor at a Persian studio. Lot of weights and conditioning, though he says that most systems are obsolete and his is the way. Standard BS as I can see it.
    Brokor likes this.
  9. Seawolf1090

    Seawolf1090 Retired Curmudgeonly IT Monkey Founding Member

    Last year I tried some Tai-Chi at the Senior Center (I was the youngest one there by far!) - but after the 70 and 80 yyear old ladies waxed my sorry butt and I had trouble remembering all the danged moves, I decided the Martial Arts just aren't for me. I got the "Pass the cocoanut to a friend" move pretty well down, but lost it soon after...... If I tried a fighting style, I'd just hurt myself..... :(
  10. tulianr

    tulianr Don Quixote de la Monkey

    There is an art for almost everyone, but the importance of looking around to find the appropriate art, and school, cannot be over emphasized. Moving during my military career gave me the opportunity to study several different arts at many different schools, and no two were the same. Even the same art can be a very different experience from one school to another. I studied Tae Kwon Do under five different instructors over the years, and each presented his own interpretation of the art. I also studied Aikido, Juijitsu, and Shotokan Karate at different times. I'm currently studying Shorin Ryu, and while I appreciate the art form, the instructors and the attitude of the school is the most important aspect.

    First, if an instructor won't allow you observe the class without signing up, walk right on out the door. Most of the GOOD instructors will even let you put on some sweats and participate in a couple of classes without obligating yourself financially. After observing a few different schools, you will be able to spot the ones which have a purely financial motivation. Stay away from those.

    In general, there are some basic characterizations you can make about the various styles and art forms:
    Karate (any karate, including Tae Kwon Do) is a "hard" system. Force is to be met with force. Block whatever the other guy throws at you, and hit him harder and with more skill than he can hit you. The Japanese and Okinawan styles (Shotokan, Shorin Ryu, etc) tend to keep their punches and kicks lower than does Tae Kwon Do (a Korean Karate). Tae Kwon Do generally requires more athleticism than do the other karates (one of the reasons that I'm no longer studying Tae Kwon Do). In my opinion, Tae Kwon Do schools also often focus more on the sport aspect, and emphasize point sparring, which may not be the best route for someone who wants to focus on self-defense. You get used to pulling your punches in point sparring, and I'm not sure that's a good thing.

    Aikido is, in general, a "soft" art. The force of the attacker is redirected, and used against him. Don't misunderstand the meaning of "soft" though. Some of the most excruciating pain I have ever experienced was in an Aikido Dojo. It is "soft" in that you don't meet force with force. You step out of the way of an attack and assist the attacker in hurting himself. If I had undergone back surgery though, I would not select Aikido. You spend a great deal of time being flung onto your back on a mat, and a less than perfectly healthy back is going to complain. Judo is also something I would not recommend to anyone who is in less than perfect physical shape. You also spend a great deal of time being slammed onto a mat, with even more force than you usually encounter in Aikido. I worked out with a Judo practitioner for three months while we were attending a military school together, and I was suitably impressed to the degree that I decided not to look up a Judo school. Pain just isn't something I enjoy.

    Juijitsu is a blending of soft and hard. The school that I attended taught the basic punches, blocks, and kicks of karate; but also included Judo style throws, and Aikido style redirecting of force, as well as nerve pressure points, and some grappling. A train of thought throughout the school that I attended was "Why just block a punch of kick, when you can break something instead? And why just punch your opponent, when you can use your elbow or knee, and do so much more damage?" It was a little brutal, but very practical. The idea was to end the encounter as quickly as possible, while doing the most damage to your opponent; rather than standing toe to toe trading punches and kicks.

    I've had the opportunity to attend some Krav Maga seminars, and have been very impressed. It is a very "no nonsense" art form. What I experienced was very high energy, very direct, and very brutal. Hit your opponent as fast and as hard as you can, using your fists, head, knees, and elbows, and don't stop hitting until your opponent stops moving.

    Tai Chi is something that, unfortunately, I have not had the opportunity to directly experience in a formal setting. I did work out with a Tai Chi stylist who was in my Aikido class, and I picked us some basic concepts from him. Were I in your position, I would strongly consider Tai Chi. It is a soft form, but can used to devastating consequence, by an experienced practitioner. It emphasizes a holistic approach to the body, including mental and physical conditioning, breathing, and a concept of blending with your environment, and your opponent. A lot of redirection of force and using your surroundings - helping your opponent to meet the wall behind you, for example.

    Also consider a Kobujitsu or other weapons oriented class. Some styles and schools include weapons in their curriculum, others do not. My own dojo is strong in Kobujitsu, and it is one of my favorite aspects of the instruction. Weapons do not generally require the same degree of athleticism and flexibility that kicking and throwing do. To me, weapons training just makes sense. Why punch someone, when you can more easily dispatch him with a stick, and not run the danger of injuring yourself in the process? My own school teaches a variety of weapons - Sai, Nunchucku, Bo, Jo, Tonfa, Kama, Eku (oar), etc. The strength of such a wide variety of weapons is that, odds are, you can pick up something close to hand which somewhat resembles a weapon that you are very familiar with, anywhere you might be. A broomstick makes a pretty good Jo, a shovel or rake makes a decent Bo or Eku, holding an iron or curling iron by the cord allows you to simulate a lot of Nunchucku techniques.

    The main thing is to find something that suits your own personal needs, physical condition, and temperament.

    Just my two cents.
  11. WOW! That was Great! Thank you for the detailed descriptions and information! I will be doing some research. Thank you again.

    Sent from my Tactical Communication Device.
    tulianr likes this.
  12. Ajax

    Ajax Monkey++

    Whatever art you want to learn make sure it involves plenty of medium to hard contact sparing, including grappling, striking etc.

    I've been in MA since I was a kid and IMO any art can be effective if it is taught and trained right. One beef I have with some of the family oriented type traditional MA's is the lack of affective contact sparring. You don't have to blast away full force, no sense in risking bad injuries, but you need to have a good feel for free flowing full speed attacking and defending, including striking and grappling moves combined, and some feel for getting hit and hitting. A heavy bag is great to condition for hitting.

    From a survivalist standpoint as far as weapons training goes something like Escrima that teaches knife and stick fighting is a good way to go. That combined with a good hand to hand system.
  13. Jeff Brackett

    Jeff Brackett Monkey+++

    Let me start by emphasizing that I intend absolutely no disrespect to any practitioners of any style. What I say is nothing more than what has worked for me.

    I've been in and out of several martial arts over the last thirty-five years. I don't claim to be any sort of "master" in any particular style, but I would definitely say that I have considerably more experience than most folks. As has been said by many others here, there is a martial art for anyone, it just depends on what you want from it.

    I've studied traditional Japanese styles (Shotokan, Judo, Jujitsu, Kyokushinkai), Korean (TKD, Hapkido), FMA (Filipino martial arts - Kali, Eskrima, Arnis), and most recently took a couple years instruction in a JKD class. For my purposes, I have always been most interested in the actual "street worthiness" of martial arts, so that is going to be where I'm coming from in this post.

    I group martial arts into three categories: traditional styles, sport styles, and "living" styles (those that are actually being used in modern combat situations).

    Traditional styles, such as the various styles of Karate, Kung Fu, and TKD, are derived from arts that were developed hundreds (or even thousands) of years ago. They have a rich history, and very precise techniques that have been "perfected" over the centuries. It has been my experience that traditional styles are good for situations where you have years to learn proper stances, breathing techniques, forms, strikes and counters. I think of the traditional styles as "graduate courses" that are extremely useful for perfecting your technique.

    Sport styles (such as TKD, Judo, Boxing, Wrestling, MMA, and Muy Thai) are great for those who want to stay in shape, and learn some good self defense at the same time. The pros to these styles are the great CV workouts, and the fact that nothing teaches you to take and dole out pain as much as doing it on a regular basis. You may think I'm joking, but I'm absolutely serious. All the technique in the world does you no good if you can't take a hit, because anyone who thinks they're going to get into a brawl and never get hit is in for a real surprise. The cons to sport styles are that they are almost always geared toward learning to fight one on one (which is not always the case), and that you end up training your body in non-lethal techniques. Muscle memory can betray you at the worst of times if this is all you have to work with. My FMA instructor got into the Filipino styles after being assaulted by three street thugs. He was a tri-state TKD champion at the time, and considers himself lucky to be alive to tell the story. He said the first attacker came at him, and being used to wearing an inch of padding on his hands, he punched right at the attacker's nose - only to pull the punch just as it grazed the target. At that point, the other two were all over him and all he could do was curl up and hope he lived through the experience, while they kicked him where he lay. Broke his collarbone, and three ribs.

    From the perspective of learning the most applicable self defense in today's world, I will always recommend one of the "living" styles. Styles such as FMA, Krav Maga, and MCMAP (Marine Corps Martial Arts Program). The only one of these that I have personal experience with is FMA. I studied in a class that taught a mixtue of FMA, silat, and Wing Chun. It was a practical, full contact class that taught the difference in learning "techniques", and in learning zones, ranges, and angles of attack that could be used either empty handed or with a blade or stick against single or multiple opponents. For quick, down and dirty street defense, the best I've found (other than bullet-fu) are the "living" styles that are still being used across the world, and are evolving - adapting to the times.
    kellory, Ajax and tulianr like this.
  14. thebastidge

    thebastidge Monkey+

    My brother teaches kung fu from a practical standpoint and highly recommends the Sayoc Kali school.
  15. -06

    -06 Monkey+++

    There is a big difference in learning an art for the art's sake and surviving in a winner take all street confrontation. Studied Kung Fu for awhile with my two oldest sons and really enjoyed the stretches and smooth moves of it. Street fighting is not an art--ever watch the tough guys fighting in the fences on TV--90% of the kicks/punches/throws are countered with blows that put them down---and then the winner usually punches the guys head till his body quits. Not that knowing where "soft points" etc. are but when the opponent/assailant/S are on you they do not do much good. One needs to fall back onto "survival" / "kill" mode. That is--if he cannot see you he cannot hit you, if he cannot breathe he will leave you alone, and if he has broken limbs he will be interested in getting away from you.
  16. VisuTrac

    VisuTrac Ваша мать носит военные ботинки Site Supporter+++

    Erm, If I'm needing to fight for my life using my hands and feet, I have done something way wrong.

    Maybe when I was a young man, I may have entertained fighting with fists and feet. Nope not any more.

    How's that saying go? Oh yeah, Never fight an old man, he'll just kill you.

    I'm bringing a rifle, shotgun, pistol to a MMA fight. Personal safety zone is 15-20 yards, cross that line, 12 gauge makes a nice roundhouse kick if you know what I mean.
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  17. kellory

    kellory An unemployed Jester, is nobody's fool. Banned

    I used to have a bad temper, and I would let others get me in trouble because of it. I got jumped by two guys in high school, and I nearly killed one. I had him down and just kept squeezing despite his buddy doing his best to kick in my head. he gave up and waved down a carload of friends, and they didn't ask any questions. They beat me unconscious. I was untrained.
    After about a week, my doctor signed off, that I could attend classes again, and while I did not know these guys, I knew of them. I entered a class for Shotokan, Stuck with it for a couple of years, came to the realization that all I learned was how to kill, break, maim and destroy. I wanted a less lethal choice, so I started taking Judo. They call it the "Gentle way". They lie. It would be better to call it, "Immobilization of an enemy by use of leverage and pain". There are some holds that are impossible to get out of without rolling over your own head! This was in my twenties, and I am in my forties now, and I have not kept up with it.
    I received my best field training on the streets of Californication for 5 years. I am comfortable with a quarterstaff against anything short of a gun, and I am a much calmer person than I was as a kid.
    I happen to like guns, I like bastard sword and bracer, I fence on occasion, two blades, I prefer Medieval Martial arts, but I will use whatever is needed. I am no bada$$,but I know what kind of damage I can take and dish out. And while I will walk away from conflict, if I can, but no one will ever beat me like that again. [nutkick]
    tulianr likes this.
  18. BTPost

    BTPost Stumpy Old Fart,Deadman Walking, Snow Monkey Moderator

    Kellory, Wisdom comes with AGE, and Experience. Some folks never get there, and some have no issues that set them Off in the first place. I was very much like you, a HotHead, while in High School, but lacked the build (Milk Toast) to do anything about it. While in college, I had a Roommate who was the Karate Instructor, on Campus, and I took every class he taught. It wasn't for the Physical Skillset, but for the DISCIPLINE, required, and He was a Great DISCIPLINARIAN. It taught me, to be able to control myself, in my environment. A very valuable lesson, one of many that had to be learned.
  19. kellory

    kellory An unemployed Jester, is nobody's fool. Banned

    BTPost, I think you understand my calm.
  20. UGRev

    UGRev Get on with it!

    I feel your calm, bro. After seeing what's been happening to this country, there is no reason to put yourself into a situation where you could be removed from the fight early.
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