Noob asking questions...

Discussion in 'General Survival and Preparedness' started by dcoates, Sep 24, 2011.

  1. dcoates

    dcoates Monkey+

    Love the site!

    My question is on Amoxicillin.
    Can it legally be purchased and what is it's shelf life for rotation?

    Someone told me once you could use Fishmox from the pet store for the same uses.
    any comment on this?
  2. wrc223

    wrc223 Monkey+

    With a prescription it can be purchased.
    Shelf life is very short (months).
    Someone told you to use fishmox but were they a fish?
    Medications are made for their target patient. If it is for a cat, it wont work on humans. Sure some may claim it will but I have been working in the Pharmaceutical industry MAKING medication for a decade now I and I can assure you that there is a big difference between pet meds and people meds.
    That is without getting into the compliance part of things. What is allowed to pass through in pet meds will SURELY not be allowed to pass through in people meds.
  3. ghrit

    ghrit Bad company Administrator Founding Member

    dcoates, a cruise thru "Back to Basics - medicine" might serve you well on the amoxy question, as well as a other substitutes.
  4. dcoates

    dcoates Monkey+

    Thanks for the info.
    Just the stuff i was looking for.
    Ill look for the Back to Basics literature.
  5. fedorthedog

    fedorthedog Monkey+++

    I spoke with my vet most of the fish meds are the same as human meds. Same factory same composition. If you don,t find it listed as prescribed for humans don't use it.
    VisuTrac likes this.
  6. wrc223

    wrc223 Monkey+

    It is against Federal law to make medication intended for human consumption in the same factory you make fish meds.
  7. beast

    beast backwoodsman

    oh, go ahead, use the fish meds
    just stock up on the stuff they use to treat ick
    and if you start breathing thru your mouth and your ears flap a litle to let the air pass...
    dont say you werent warned
  8. BTPost

    BTPost Stumpy Old Fart,Deadman Walking, Snow Monkey Moderator

    Well now, that is NOT Exactly True..... There is an FDA Regulation that says you can not make Non-Human Consumption Grade, food and Medical Products on the same Formulating and Compounding Line, as that for Human Consumption, HOWEVER, there is NO Regulation that prohibits a Pharmaceutical Company from labeling Human Consumption Grade Pharmaceuticals, as Fish or Animal Medications. Note Here: Once labeled as such, they then can NOT be Relabeled, as for Human Consumption, again. It is the same with Canned Salmon. You can Can Your Salmon in compliance with the Industry Wide Canned Salmon Control Plan, and then label that lot For Sale to the Public. Then at some point down the road, decide to relabel, that LOT, as Cat Food, and sell it in the grocery Store under the non-Human Consumption Label. You are not allowed, to then reLabel it back, to Human consumption. The same is true for Tuna, and most other food and medical Items. If they were produced, for Human Consumption, they are able to be sold, for Non-Human Consumption purposes, but once Labeled as such, they then can NOT be Relabeled back to the Higher Grade.
    VisuTrac likes this.
  9. Tikka

    Tikka Monkey+++

    As they are used to treat expensive rare fish; they are held to the same "US Pharmaceutical Grade" standards which is all that is important to preppers.

  10. chelloveck

    chelloveck Diabolus Causidicus

    It sounds very much like the debate

    As to whether lead pills designed to treat animal pests are as effective in treating human pests! : O

    (edit) I believe both are manufactured on the same production line without any ill effect to the efficacy of either use.
  11. wrc223

    wrc223 Monkey+

    Well, you guys want to eat pet meds, go for it. You want to pick apart what I am saying to make yourself right, thats cool too. I have seen first hand what gets passed when you are talking about what gets approved for human consumption. I cringe to think what you are putting in your body when you eat pet meds. If you think it makes you a better prepper to use pet meds, that is your right so have at it.
    One little request, make sure you tell a person what you are about to give them before you volunteer medical assistance to someone. People deserve to make informed decisions on their healthcare options.
  12. dcoates

    dcoates Monkey+

    Who's got an easily made/found alternative then.
  13. beast

    beast backwoodsman

    natural penicillin, it does grow wild you know
  14. dcoates

    dcoates Monkey+

    I can see this is getting me nowhere fast.
  15. beast

    beast backwoodsman

    penicillin is a natural bread mold, you can find its origins, discovery and how it was used right here on the web
    amoxicilin is a derivative of penicillin, just much more chemically processed
  16. chelloveck

    chelloveck Diabolus Causidicus

    Open disclosure and offering informed consent

    Is the ethically right thing to do. I don't think that anyone is recommending for human consumption equivalent medications manufactured for pet use as an alternative to medications manufactured specifically for human use, if medications manufactured specificallyfor human use are readilly available. in an EOTWAWKI / PAW scenario, it's a matter of deciding, in the absence of available medications for human consumption, whether equivalent medications manufactured for pet consumption are going to be more beneficial to the patient than no medication at all, or more beneficial than the administration of alternative herbal complementary medications.

    Using a medication manufactured for veterinary application on humans ought not be done simply as a means of saving money, as doing so may be a case of false economy. In a genuine EOWAWKI / PAW situation when societal industrial manufacturing capacity will no longer be available, it's likely that medications, both human and veterinarian will probably not last long without replenishment through industrial production. Naturally, kitchen labs will undoubtedly still operate to produce narcotics. : S

    I don't think anyone here is making that argument. I think most here would support the idea of obtaining legitimate meds manufactured for human consumption as a first priority, but that would require in most instances the co-operation of a physician to prescribe them in the first instance, which is something that the average prepper may not be able to do in practice.

    I can understand where you are coming from, and why your position is as it is, and appreciate your expressions of caution, but at the end of the day, in a PAW environment where uncertainty is the rule rather than the exception, some risks are inevitable....but as you have suggested...the relative risks need to be assessed, and informed consent be first obtained.
    BTPost and beast like this.
  17. Illini Warrior

    Illini Warrior Illini Warrior


    I don't know what other prepper's intents might involve ..... but I have pet med antibiotics stored for a serious SHTF/TEOTWAWKI situation ..... before using the meds I would take drastic steps to obtain medical aid along standard medical lines ..... if meds/supplies would not be available, I would use my med supplies with the best qualified medical personnel available ...... as last resort, I would making a Hail Mary Pass to try to save someone using my own resources .......
  18. ozarkgoatman

    ozarkgoatman Resident goat herder

    Lots of herbs have anti-biotic compounds in them. IMHO it is much smarter/safer to learn how to take those herbs and treat yourself. All man made medicines have side effects, very few herbs do. So trust what you want, for me I'll go with the odds. [2c]

  19. Tikka

    Tikka Monkey+++

    So what is wrong with "us pharmaceutical grade?"

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