Oil/Gas Well On Prospective Property

Discussion in 'General Survival and Preparedness' started by OzarkSaints, Mar 4, 2010.


  1. OzarkSaints

    OzarkSaints Monkey++

    anyone know the effects of having an oil well and a gas well on their property?

    in specific, their effects on having a water well, a large pond, and extensive gardening?

    found some cheap and very remote acreage that has both on it.....what's y'alls thoughts?

    thanks fellas
     
  2. melbo

    melbo Hunter Gatherer Administrator Founding Member

    ghrit is the one with the info on this one.
     
  3. ghrit

    ghrit Ambulatory anachronism Administrator Founding Member

    OS, the deeper I get into this gas lease business the more I find one needs to know to keep things under control. The first thing you need to know is whether or not the mineral rights come with the purchase. The second must know item is the terms of the lease that was granted for the well. Bear in mind that each and every state has different rules for leases and the interpretation of the lease will be very specific to the property under lease. A lawyer is a must.

    Up here, the play is in its infancy, and we landowners are learning on the fly. For an eyeball on some, or most, of the things worth knowing about, go here --
    Natural Gas Forum For Landowners - Index

    This is a forum for landowners that are prospective lessors (and some that have learned the hard way) but there is a lot of info that can point you toward things to look for in an existing lease, no matter oil or gas.

    Direct to your questions, then:
    -If the mineral wells were properly installed, they should not affect a water well. Casing depth matters.
    -A pond may or may not be a good idea. Look for pipeline right of way to be just where you want the pond. (There may be some state permits required for an impound, too.)
    -Gardening falls under the same general heading of farming. Surface rights get interesting, and again will be affected by a pipeline.
     
  4. OzarkSaints

    OzarkSaints Monkey++

    thank you sir, very much appreciated...I'll sit down and check out that link this weekend!

    so no soil/water contamination to worry about for ponds and gardens then? just more of a 'rights' issue?

    thanks again
     
  5. Minuteman

    Minuteman Chaplain Moderator Founding Member

    Soil & water contamination from underground is very, very rare. The only concern in that regard would be surface spillage. Again vey rare but more likely and very localized, around the wellhead or the storage tanks. And law requires them to be diked to contain any spillage.
    I would fnd out how old the wells are. The regs were less stringent 20 or 30 years ago than they are today and well casing deteriates over time and leakage is more probable in older wells, usualy 30+ years.
     
  6. ghrit

    ghrit Ambulatory anachronism Administrator Founding Member

    Typically not, tho' there have been very rare cases. Of course, you should test the soil where your garden is going just to be sure there wasn't something left over from drilling.
     
  7. Minuteman

    Minuteman Chaplain Moderator Founding Member

    Actually the "left over" from drilling activities is benificial to the soil. Drilling fluids are made up of Bentonite and Barite mainly with some Lignite and Lime. all natural substances. The only chemical is Caustic Soda to raise PH levels, but in minimal quantities. Farmers used to come and get the left over drilling mud and spray it on their fields to increase the PH level in their soils.

    The regulatory agency in Okla. is The Oklahoma Corporation Commission. You can check with them and see if the wells have had any problems, if the operator has had any complaints or fines against them. I would check to see if bond logs are on record for the cement jobs. depth of the wells etc. Get the info on the wells from the well sign posted at the entrance to the site. It will contain all the legal info that the CC needs to bring up the files on it.

    Oklahoma Corporation Commission-Home
     
  8. ghrit

    ghrit Ambulatory anachronism Administrator Founding Member

    Pretty much correct, barring, say an oil spill that wasn't cleaned up or documented properly.
     
  9. OzarkSaints

    OzarkSaints Monkey++

    thanks again fellas

    MM...I'll give ya a ring if we move forward on it (really torn here between planting roots here in OK, headin' to AK, or taking the most ridiculously phenomenol job offer a fella could ever have up in Albany NY and getting some remote land in NW Maine....I am grateful for an abundance of oppurtunities, but trying to make a decision is driving me nuts at the same time)
     
  10. melbo

    melbo Hunter Gatherer Administrator Founding Member

    Glad MM stepped in as well. I knew that ghrit has some experience in NG wells and land rights on private property. MM is the goto guy for Oil
     
  11. Quigley_Sharps

    Quigley_Sharps The Badministrator Administrator Founding Member

    When I was at Carnegie I called the Ok DEQ forget the real title asked how large of a oil spill has to be reported , they told me 4 barrels!
    in Oregon spill 4 gals and go to prison..lol
     
  12. melbo

    melbo Hunter Gatherer Administrator Founding Member

    P*E follows a rule for SPCC that says something about proximity to flowing water and that the earth around the pad can be called containment. We follow that!
     
  13. bnmb

    bnmb On Hiatus Banned

    Just watch the documentary "GasLand"...then decide if you trust BigOil&Gas...If I was you, I would get the heck out of there!
     
  14. ghrit

    ghrit Ambulatory anachronism Administrator Founding Member

    Gasland is a crock of one sided propaganda. Go to Natural gas forum for landowners and get up to speed with the reality of a gasicane. Those who have been screwed (and there are many) allowed themselves to be taken in and didn't get the gas lease they signed vetted by someone with knowledge. Once again, it is possible to trust the untrustworthy.
     
  15. bnmb

    bnmb On Hiatus Banned

    I see...so flames coming out of faucets are FX tricks? So is the falling hair from the animals? Also is propaganda the use of 570 highly toxic chemicals pumped directly into the ground? It's probably also propaganda the claims of the people that BigOil forced them to sign non-disclosure agreements? LOL...OK...I wonder who has the money to make propaganda? I'm not sure it's the guy who made the movie...But if you don't mind to live on highly polluted ground and risk health and lives of your family, go right on! I know that if there was the slightest chance my family to be in any danger, I would get out of there...but that's just me...
     
  16. OzarkSaints

    OzarkSaints Monkey++

    the sellers couldn't get everyone on the deed (inheritence thing I guess) to sign, so it fell through anyway
     
  17. ghrit

    ghrit Ambulatory anachronism Administrator Founding Member

    ICYMI – Marcellus Landowners Put GasLand Under the Microscope

    Fictionalizing the Facts: Fox’s Flaming Faucets
    By Peter Wynne
    The Hancock (N.Y.) Herald
    July 14, 2010
    If you watch Josh Fox in his movie “Gasland,” listen to the narration he wrote and read some of the interviews he’s giving to the media, you’ll likely be convinced he was born among the green hills of Wayne County, Pa., and grew up in a little house on a dirt road in the middle of the woods. More than that, the house was built by his parents, who taught him his first word, “hammer.”
    Fox gives out details like that and does it with seeming sincerity, but his heart-warming tale is mostly a fantasy, just so much bait to hook an audience and pull viewers over to his side. The movie’s straight-talking Josh Fox, who wears jeans and a baseball cap and finger-picks a five-string banjo, can’t be trusted to tell anything like the whole truth.
    Fox is playing a role in his movie. Besides being a film director, he’s an experienced actor who eight years ago was already claiming he had appeared in more than 60 plays. He’s also a playwright with at least 16 stage plays to his credit. In fact, it’s in the program notes for one of those plays — in 2002 at the La MaMa ETC theater in New York City — that he mentions his acting experience.
    In those notes, he also volunteers that he “was born and raised above 96th street and grew up almost entirely in Manhattan,” adding that he’s “a graduate of Columbia University with a degree in Theater Arts.”
    That doesn’t sound at all like the star and narrator of “Gasland,” and it’s because the Josh Fox of the film is basically a fictional character. His father does own a modest house on the unpaved John Davis Road in Milanville, and Josh no doubt spent some time there as a child, when he wasn’t growing up “almost entirely in Manhattan.” As with everything else in the movie, Foxed picks only the facts that help him win his case and fills the gaps with fiction.
    Fox is a capable and well respected artist who works mostly in a tradition that can be traced back to the leftist propaganda theater of the Great Depression, things like Marc Blitzstein’s “The Cradle Will Rock.” He clearly understands that audiences will view him and his crusade against gas exploration with far greater sympathy if he represents himself as someone born and bred in the countryside he says he’s defending, and not just some Upper West Sider whose parents were well enough off to have a rustic retreat for weekends and summer vacations.
    He claims he refused an offer of nearly $100,000 as a signing bonus for leasing the drilling rights to the Milanville property. He says that in May 2008 he got an offer of $4,750 an acre on the family’s 19-1/2 acres, but offers of that much money just weren’t being made on properties in northern Wayne County at that time.
    The Northern Wayne Property Owners Alliance, whose members then represented something like 60,000 acres, was struggling to get high-bidding Chesapeake Energy to increase its bonus-money offer from $1,750 an acre. And large aggregations of property were attracting much higher offers than little stand-alone parcels.
    The fictions aside, one of the gravest and most consistent problems with “Gasland” is the way Fox ignores the huge differences in geology, production techniques and government regulations that exist across our vast and diverse country. He lavishes generous amounts of screen time on things he observed in Colorado, for example, but very little of what he saw there is germane to Pennsylvania or to many other states.
    He points out, for example, that gas wells in Garfield County, CO, are very closely spaced, and this is supposed to be a warning to the rest of us. But what he doesn’t say is the wells are spaced this way because natural gas in Garfield County is found in lens-shaped pockets of porous sandstone that are entirely surrounded by gas-free solid rock.
    The only way to extract gas from these “lenses” is to drill into them vertically from above, and efficiently exploiting a gasfield of this type requires placing wells just a few hundred feet apart.
    The Marcellus Shale allows — almost requires — an entirely different approach. The shale continuously covers thousands of square miles in New York, Pennsylvania, Ohio and West Virginia. Here a driller can bore down to the shale, 6,000 to 8,000 feet below the surface, and then extend the wellbore horizontally for a mile or more.
    The same well pad can be used for multiple wells that extend outward like the spokes of a wheel, and a single location can be used to drain the gas from beneath many hundreds of acres. Here well pads can be spaced thousands of feet apart.
    Out West, Fox also found evaporation ponds, which are used there to concentrate the tainted water that flows back to the surface from a newly fracked well. The flowback or “produced” fluid is sprayed into the air so that much of the water it contains evaporates, reducing the amount of fluid that has to be trucked to a disposal site. This is a technique designed for remote desert settings and cannot be used in Pennsylvania; our Department of Environmental Protection won’t allow it.
    An industry group called Energy in Depth has prepared a rebuttal to “Gasland” that runs to nearly 4,000 words and carefully details some of the dozens of factual errors and outright fictions that can be found in the film. It would make no sense to repeat them all here, when the reader can find the piece online.
    One subject worthy of comment is Fox’s flaming faucets, which provide some of the most arresting images in the movie. These are kitchen faucets that spout flames because the water wells supplying them have become contaminated with highly combustible methane gas and someone sets it ablaze.
    Fox filmed these scenes in Colorado and lets the viewer conclude that the problem was caused by gas drilling, as the homeowners interviewed seem to believe. The most dramatic sequence of the lot, filmed at the home of Mike Markham in Ft. Lupton, gets about 10 minutes of screen time, but there’s no mention that the methane in the water came from bacterial contamination of Markham’s well, which is what Colorado state investigators determined.
    In any case, Fox’s basic goal in “Gasland” is to convince his audience that hydrofracturing, or fracking, poses a grave and imminent threat to the environment and every living thing in it — in Pennsylvania and everywhere else. However, fracking has nothing to do with methane in water wells, which is the product of “migration” or “seepage.”
    Methane contamination of water wells can be dangerous, to be sure. A methane-gas explosion in Dimock in Susquehanna County at the start of this year blew apart the underground enclosure of a water-well system and left a gaping hole in the ground.
    A recently drilled gas well was less than 1,300 feet away, and gas seems to have migrated upward from a pocket 1,500 feet below the surface, along the outside of the steel well casing, which seems not to have been adequately cemented in place. The gas then seeped through the ground to the well enclosure. At least that was the scenario suggested a month or so later by the DEP.
    It should be pointed out, however, that methane seepage is nothing new in northeastern Pennsylvania. Francis Tully, a Thompson resident who drilled literally thousands of water wells in the region starting in the 1940s, says gas seepage is relatively common in our area.
    In an interview published in “The Hancock (NY) Herald” in February, the now retired Tully remarked that in his time water-well drillers often found they could flare matches at faucets. Near Clifford in Susquehanna County, he said, nearly every water well has natural gas in it, and people drink the water there all the time without harm. (Clifford and Dimock are about 20 miles apart as “the crow flies.”)
    Back in January 2007, a brief video of a flaming faucet in Susquehanna County was posted by a homeowner there on You Tube. That was months before any gas wells had been drilled in the county.
    Images of flaming faucets can be frightening, even though they’re totally irrelevant, and Fox is hoping, of course, that viewers will associate the unsettling emotional experience he has put them through with the idea of fracking. If you look at the headlines showing up in the popular press these days, you have to admit his tactic is working very well.
    If “Gasland” were being offered to the public as an artistic endeavor, a scary, apocalyptic cautionary tale, it mightn’t be too bad. But Fox casts himself in the role of a “gas-drilling detective,” a downhome journalist presenting his findings in a film documentary, but he cherry-picks the facts for their shock value and blends them with at least an equal helping of fiction. The consequences of this deception could be profoundly destructive and longlasting.
    Peter Wynne, who’s also a native of Manhattan, spent many years working as a journalist in New York City."
     
  18. ghrit

    ghrit Ambulatory anachronism Administrator Founding Member

  19. bnmb

    bnmb On Hiatus Banned

    LOL...OK...if you say so...i couldn't care less...good for you to put so much faith and trust in oil companies and "government"...it's also nice to know that you have such "independent" journalists who wouldn't write anything for cash...just remember to keep taking your medicines, eat your harmless genetically engineered food and drink your "light" colas stuffed with "harmless" aspartame (forbidden in 160 countries). Even if you get some of 570 "harmless" chemicals in your water and food, it's still no big deal...your friendly pharma will be more than happy to supply you with all the "necessary" drugs you need just to keep you sick....and if you try to find some really healthy food, make sure you visit your psychiatrist to give you the diagnosis that you suffer from "Orthorexia Nervosa". He'll be more than happy to pump you with few pounds of "harmless" drugs....

    Good luck!
     
  20. ghrit

    ghrit Ambulatory anachronism Administrator Founding Member

    :lol: You've taken the refuge of the unknowledged debater, pick at the messenger, not the message. Happy is the closed mind with argumentum ad hominem, and thus endeth the debate for lack of facts.
     
survivalmonkey SSL seal        survivalmonkey.com warrant canary
17282WuJHksJ9798f34razfKbPATqTq9E7