Old calibers

Discussion in 'General Survival and Preparedness' started by oldman11, Oct 28, 2018.

  1. oldman11

    oldman11 Monkey+++

    I’m glad I started this as I’m learning a lot,I have never heard of the .30 giraffe before. What do you shoot it in,a rifle lm sure? I would like to see and shoot it just one time.
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  2. sec_monkey

    sec_monkey SM Security Administrator


    tis a strange bird ..

    the .30 giraffe cartridge is on the right

    the googz is havin issues findin the rifle that goes with it
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  3. Ura-Ki

    Ura-Ki Grudge Monkey

    I should have added the caveat; Some arms are not able to chamber all the listed chamberings ( lever guns come to mind) I posted before, but many single shots can! The only real concern is throat build up of lead and powder fouling, but unless you shoot a lot of say .45 Colt, your not really going to have any issues! The larger chamberings like .45/70 and 90 will lead much faster, and as long you have a concentric chamber to bore, shouldn't cause issues! Makes for an awfully handy arrangement when you have that much variance in power with just one weapon! I always likes the idea of the Taurus Circuit Judge revolving rifle, but to my mind, it's just not practical unless it could take .45/70, then it would be a super seller, I would be all over it!
    Not mine!
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  4. chelloveck

    chelloveck Diabolus Causidicus

    Sure, one could buy firearms that fire obscure and bizarro ammo,


    but why would one do it, other than for braggin' rights among cartridge collectors,, and shits 'n' giggles....there seems to be little survival value in it, when resources are tight, and there are other priorities of greater importance.
    Rare Wildcats

    Yep, I'm goin' ta buy me a .58 Schubarth rifle, just in case some Mad Max character comes into my post apocalyptic trading post to barter some of his last Schubarth cartridges for a Twinky.
    The .58 Schubarth Is One Strange Rifle Cartridge [PICS]

    or one can roll one's own DIY cartridge from hardware store ingredients...(Submitted for informational and educational purposes only)..do this at your own risk....probably not suitable for ,22 auto firearms. YMMV

    Can You Make a .22 Cartridge from a Nail Gun Power Cartridge and an Air Gun Pellet?

    And why would one have a Gyrojet firearm in one's post apocalyptic survival armoury,other than as an impressive club?

    Last edited: Oct 29, 2018
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  5. AxesAreBetter

    AxesAreBetter Monkey+++

    .410 was designed to be shot out of a smoothbore M1873, 2 1/2" is the same size as the .45-70, it's parent cartridge. Odd but true. It's a U.S. military cartridge for officers to carry a scavenging gun on the Great Plains.
  6. hot diggity

    hot diggity Monkey+++ Site Supporter+++

    I'm sure somebody could make a rifle that'd chamber the .30 Giraffe Magnum ... but who needs a double shouldered, belted magnum with a rebated rim?
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  7. Gator 45/70

    Gator 45/70 Monkey+++

    Stop it Chello, Your just making up weird rounds and could be very dangerous because someone like me may just try one or two!
  8. hot diggity

    hot diggity Monkey+++ Site Supporter+++

    Some hundred year old rounds are perfectly serviceable for a variety of targets, and with a wide range of bullet designs and weights.
    Bullet variety.
    It's good to know how they all perform sooner rather than later. :)
    This one wasn't mine, but I have had this trouble with 6.5 Jap with cast bullets. I sorted it out and found that I just had to push them faster to keep them stable. Most older calibers can be loaded with very mild low velocity cast bullet loads that will get the job done efficiently and accurately without wasting resources.
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  9. Oddcaliber

    Oddcaliber Monkey++

    A really good read on the subject is Cartridges of the World. Covers a lot of strange and obscure rounds.
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  10. hot diggity

    hot diggity Monkey+++ Site Supporter+++

    Cartridges of the World is an excellent read, and a must-have resource for old firearm enthusiasts.

    I've found this one is a big time saver for the reloader of obsolete ammo.
    case conversion manual.
  11. Gator 45/70

    Gator 45/70 Monkey+++

    Damn great thread!!!
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  12. hot diggity

    hot diggity Monkey+++ Site Supporter+++

    I've given some thought to the whole black powder cartridge thing, and given any choice at all with a cartridge designed for smokeless powder and a firearm capable of handling it, I'd avoid the Holy Black. I do load two BP cartridges, but both were never offered in smokeless powder, and the firearms are approaching 150 years old.

    In a pinch I could use smokeless powder from cartridges that I couldn't use, or had an abundance of, to work up loads. I don't recommend this, since it may be with an unknown powder, but starting low and reading pressure signs on fired brass, and listening to the report to determine (very roughly) the velocity using the old muzzle loaders boom vs. crack method. I used this method while helping a friend work up a very mild smokeless load for 11 x 59mmR Gras using reclaimed blank cartridge powder. We settled on a load that was subsonic, but quite accurate, and due to the bullets mass, would be able to take deer at reasonable ranges.

    Unless you're breaking out the charcoal, potassium nitrate and sulfur to make your own black powder your chances of finding a quantity of shotshells or hunting rifle ammunition in a junk drawer with intact powder are far greater than finding black powder.

    I save the Holy Black for firearms that were made when it was the only powder. ;)

    Smith & Sons.
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  13. Oddcaliber

    Oddcaliber Monkey++

    There are some modern muzzle loaders that use smokeless modern gunpowder.
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  14. hot diggity

    hot diggity Monkey+++ Site Supporter+++

    There are indeed. There are also shooters who "measure" their smokeless powder with a table spoon, and tell me that it's safe because it hasn't blown up yet.
  15. oldman11

    oldman11 Monkey+++

    It’s not a old one but I just picked up a early ruger .44 mag auto carbine. I already have a smith model 29 .44 mag so the ammo will not be a problem. I just hope my wife doesn’t sell them for what I told her I paid for them. You just stack a bunch of them in a corner and then she don’t pay no attention when you buy another. She had better not read this.
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  16. hot diggity

    hot diggity Monkey+++ Site Supporter+++

    How early is it? It could be 57 years old, since production ran from 61-85. The 1976 model had some extra engraving on the receiver.

    I'm a lead bullet shooter... except in the Ruger .44 carbine. My research found agreement everywhere that the gas port was small and nearly impossible to clear once fouled, and the carbine tends to like hot loads. I tried one of the recommended loads, using the only JHP bullets I had on hand. It was OMG hot, and would've been completely unbearable in a pistol. I was launching brass up on top of the soda machine behind the firing line, and the recoil was brutal, making accuracy challenging.

    My quest for a more sane load that would make the Ruger carbine more pleasant to shoot led me down a familiar road.
    I had helped with the development of a load for a fixed piston cattle gun, and had found Alliant 2400 to be a standout performer at swinging our test pendulum among a large variety of powders throughout the burn-rate chart. I knew from this exercise that Bullseye, a fast pistol powder, had moved the pendulum less than 6", while the same charge by volume of 2400 had swung it 56".

    If it'll move a pendulum like that, it ought to move the action on this .44 carbine. I started with the starting (minimum) load from the Lee manual. It worked so well I've never seen a need to change anything. Recoil is mild, the action cycles nicely, and the ejected brass doesn't stray too far. Best of all, even with my poor vision, it puts all the rounds inside a single ragged hole at 50 yards.

    So my advice for Ruger .44 carbine loads is to get the lead out, shooting only jacketed bullets, and try Alliant 2400.

    Congratulations on the new carbine. It's a keeper. ;)
    Last edited: Nov 4, 2018
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  17. AxesAreBetter

    AxesAreBetter Monkey+++

    Give me a holer if you ever want to get rid of it!!
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  18. Gator 45/70

    Gator 45/70 Monkey+++

    Have one Mfg. 1966
  19. oldman11

    oldman11 Monkey+++

    Picked another .45/70 single shot,a ruger no.1 that looks like new. That makes four,two Springfield trapdoors,one Winchester hi-wall and now this ruger no.1. I can always load the 45-70 with blackpowder.
    Last edited: Nov 18, 2018
  20. Andy the Aussie

    Andy the Aussie Monkey+++ Founding Member

    I use to have one of those Ruger .44mag carbines ! What a neat little rifle it was. It was in effect my “truck gun”. My BJ42 had a metal box bolted to a wheelarch in the back and the Ruger fitted in there perfectly (this was back when this was legal here). Pretty much had it there always. Bagged my share of “opportunity hogs” with it in the bush let me tell you !!
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