One Year In Hell...Surviving A Full SHTF Collapse In Bosnia

I see your problem.....using bacon fat as a preservative.....

 

@BTPost
"They MAY copy information from the 4473..."

Whoa! Do they as a normal procedure copy information? And, for what reason would they do this do? I assume 'only' in an incident involving a crime that was under investigation?

 

I think now I understand why everyone is so nervous...and I apologize because I never had to think about this until I returned stateside. It is not the fact that the ATF or any agency is currently doing this. It is the fact that it is such a very small step to doing it. The data is already there, readily available . The data is controlled by regulation by a government agency. Martial Law is declared, agents go to FFLs and demand they turn over the documents and some kids punch it into a database or a optical character reading is used - either case -- within a week you would have a complete database. Okay...I understand and it is a very, very small step.

 

And while I'm not advocating anything (and I'm not an FFL), I really do think we would be shocked at the number of unexplained/unexplainable fires that would happen in the records keeping area if it looked like confiscations were on the way or had begun in earnest.

"Yes officer, we had a fireproof safe for the documents, but you have to open it to put new documents in. We leave it open throughout the day for ease of access. It's not to keep them from being stolen, it's to protect from fire. Who would have thought we'd have a fire in the middle of the day?"

 

I was talking to a friend of my in West Virginia, him and his father really are gun nuts and their collections well exceed a hundred each. He says, and I never thought of this until he said it, that the database more than likely already exists. He believes that when they do the National Instant Criminal Background Check System (NICS) on you when you purchase that the details of the firearm being purchased is then tied to you.

@BTPost Question: When you do the sell and call NICS do you give them the serial number and make/model of firearm or just the individual's info?

And, they wouldn't have to visit you. A simple phone call directly you to mail them or etc. would suffice.

Rick

 

The NICS system is solely used to determine "eligibility" through positive identification.

During a purchase transaction, the only portion of ATF form 4473 that must be filled out to determine NICS elegibility is Section A which is the Buyer/Transferee. Nothing in that section of the form indicates "what" is being transferred (outside of the obvious...a firearm) and is used to identify the user in the 3 (or 4 if you are non US citizen) databases that are checked.

The form (if you haven't seen one in a while) is here: https://www.atf.gov/file/61446/download

The second portion can be filled out partially prior to the NICS check but it is clear that it cannot be completed due to the fact that the NICS response is required for block 21c. Block 23 is nice for those who have a permit to carry concealed (every state seems to call it something different but that's what it is), since the background has already been done and the permit has not been revoked.

However, form 4473 does list the nature, model, make and serial number of the transferred firearm. Form 4473 is to be retained by the FFL for no less than 20 years as part of their permanent record with one exception. Form 4473 filled out with a result of Denied or Canceled (no transfer took place), only need to be retained for 5 years.

 

Yup, any and all PII (Personally Identifiable Information) is to be retained for no longer than 18 months. No further comment.

 

According to the website, they don't require that information as the initial determination of eligibility, that being primarily age of the transferee for a handgun, should have already been ascertained. That being said, I'm not an FFL and won't argue with you on this one. We all know they ask for information that isn't "required" as they are "law enforcement" and that's what they do.

Officer: "You're free to go...oh, can I ask you a couple of quick questions?"

BOOM! No longer under Miranda (if you ever were) and anything you answer is now "voluntary" and you WILL regret saying anything other than "No sir/ma'am, have a nice day."

 

Extremely interesting topic...and I get it now why many are concerned. It seems the lynchpin to all of this is the 4473s however it doesn't make me feel comfortable knowing that NICS knows how many shotguns, pistols and rifles I have. That could be enough when they show up at my door after Martial Law or etc...

It's estimated there are over 300 million guns in America so the amount of 4473s still retained on file for the last 20 years is significant...and @BTPost it would take more than a week (I was definitely wrong in that off the cuff WAG) ....but I would imagine the Feds would contact FFLs via letter or phone and tell them to ship or bring to some local office of a Federal agency (or Local/State agency if it will cooperate), there to be forwarded to a Regional location to be processed... so it wouldn't happen overnight but 6 months or less would certainly be possible especially given resources to get the right equipment. Seems far fetched but possible...my guess is they will instead continue to press for nationwide gun registration. Make it a law...

 

Anyone who doesn't own a few mom-pedigreed firearms needs to find a few.

Non-pedigree means firearms sold before the GCA of 68.