Peak Oil News

Discussion in 'Peak Oil' started by melbo, Feb 20, 2006.

  1. ghrit

    ghrit Bad company Administrator Founding Member

    Gotta say that there's a good set of reasons behind the extra fees and costs associated with electrical bills. Dot gov has to consider the "common weal" as motivation. Where I go off the rails is the manner of supporting the common weal with what amounts to hidden taxes. Taxation is fine as a means to support the core functions of gov't, but adding to the bureaucracy for the sake of special interests (read as dot gov employment) is not.

    Let the flames begin ---
    HK_User likes this.
  2. HK_User

    HK_User A Productive Monkey is a Happy Monkey Site Supporter

    No flames here.

    Those that think/believe they can avoid supporting the "GRID" system are just fooling themselves.

    NUKE? Not yet a viable power source for land based systems in "Neighborhoods" of any country.

    Wood power? More pollution at best and another cost to build using limited power and process cost in steel and paint etc. One way or the other the wood when harvested, processed or stolen from work, junk yard or the neighbor's wood lot still comes at a cost of some type of Grid power or stored Carbon base power. So you say you cut by Ax? And you move it by Horse and the horsee eats processed feed from the midwest? With Midwest transports cost, water and fuel and fertilizer etc.

    Wind Power? Just what is the cost , in real energy, to build, transport, install and keep running of such systems. Just take the time to do the math for that system from start to finish in a Cad Room to the last bolt in the field install and then the upkeep, include the trucks expense used to transport crew and parts to those areas and the fuel, whatever the source.

    Gen sets? Just another way to burn carbon fuels and a crutch at best to make some feel good.

    Solar? Ever seen the massive plants to build and support the poor quality Solar we have now?

    No Free Lunch in this world and most are just part of the system they think they are out smarting!

    So, flame on.
    Last edited: Jul 18, 2014
    Yard Dart likes this.
  3. Brokor

    Brokor Live Free or Cry Moderator Site Supporter+++ Founding Member

    If more people were self sufficient and provided just 50% of their raw energy needs on their own, and we started building energy efficient homes instead of McMansions --alternative energy would be far more enticing and rewarding. I think wind power and solar power really can be beneficial and rewarding.

    Our problem isn't just oil dependency, it's the disposable lifestyle we have adopted and careless urban development protocols which make this such a terrible situation. Sure, we have insulation and building material breakthroughs, as well as modern recycling methods to build cheaper and faster. But, as long as we continue to expect every home to be tied into the energy grid without providing any of its own energy requirements, all we are doing is perpetuating the dependency cycle.

    We are facing corporate America, and global corporatism. They will not acquiesce, and they will not face losing profits to a self sufficient citizenry. This is why we are fighting such a slow and painful battle incorporating more alternative energy sources, not because they are any less viable.
  4. cjsloane

    cjsloane Monkey

    I had to read this short article 3x to understand the Vermont connection. Vermont didn't want to do anything. Entergy, a utility company based in Vermont wanted to impose fees in Idaho. Vermont had the highest per capita of people living off grid last time I checked so this is not likely to get passed here any time soon.
    HK_User and Brokor like this.
  5. HK_User

    HK_User A Productive Monkey is a Happy Monkey Site Supporter

    I suggest you read it a fourth time.
    And consider the subject of this portion of the thread is “Who Pays” or better yet how much everyone pays for the grid, of course this means a lot more than just one thing. Who pays for the Grid power when things go bad?
    While you are at it “Think” clean up. Because when Entergy runs out of any clean up find monies the funds will come out of the Vermont Population’s pocket, on the grid or not, and then on down the line of other Entergy Power Utilities users.
    It really is not in Vermont’s hands!
    Think 4 Mile Island.
  6. cjsloane

    cjsloane Monkey

    I think Entergy's Nuke is a separate issue.

    This particular article is not about Vermont although I'm not clear which state it is about because Idaho Public Utilities Commission is mentioned and so is the Louisiana Public Service Commission.

    Actually, it's not an article at all but a letter to the editor to a Vermont newspaper which could explain why it's so poorly written.

    So, to reiterate, the State of Vermont does not want to charge off-grid users anything and is not trying to. Indirect costs are not what the article is about. Actually, the state has been trying to shut down Vermont Yankee but I think the Feds are trying to prevent that. I'm not sure what the status of that is.
    HK_User likes this.
  7. HK_User

    HK_User A Productive Monkey is a Happy Monkey Site Supporter

    Your choice but here's a few facts abou Vermont.

    "After being granted the federal license it also needed for continued operation, Entergy sued the state and won a first round in federal court in Brattleboro.

    The state appealed but largely lost earlier this month although Attorney General Bill Sorrell said the court overruled a part of the lower-court decision saying the state had violated the U.S. Constitution by trying to demand cut-rate power from Vermont Yankee if it were allowed to continue operating."

    So we see that Vermont can be bought by a Utility Company except the price was too high and the Utility Plant proved the violation of U.S. Constitution, just call it crass graft aka lacking in discrimination and sensibility.
    Last edited: Jul 17, 2014
  8. HK_User

    HK_User A Productive Monkey is a Happy Monkey Site Supporter

    Brokor, I did exactly what you suggest in the construction of an efficient home which now cost me $80 on average to heat or cool and pump my own water and support a shop and barn. In the past in a like area I had a $400.00 summer electrical bill with a new stick built home with a dark roof, so stupid.

    Now the electrical use is about $80 a month and since I can actually see what it cost me to support the GRID I can see a GRID cost of about $34 a month since I am charged (rural area) for each meter drop and an extra "Night Light is $4.00 a month.

    So now alternative energy is not the least bit enticing.

    Doing the math will prove that at this time no ROI system is there than can suggest to me that I want to add solar with the cost and upkeep of panels, batteries and inverters.

    So, in my case, building a super efficient home, which included correct plot location, in a rural area complete with out buildings solved a number of expense categories.

    Would I like a back up? Well yes and I do have a fair sized stand by gen set that will run my HVAC and keep me comfy for as long as I can provide fuel. That being said I am not about to spend $10,000 for a solar system that will just maybe replace that gen set at this time.

    The MAGIC is in the numbers and the complete planning of a HOME, which in my case includes well water at 400 feet and a fairly secure home that is not a bunker or a cave. I like light and windows.
    Last edited: Jul 18, 2014
  9. Brokor

    Brokor Live Free or Cry Moderator Site Supporter+++ Founding Member

    @HK_User I was referring more to the construction of new buildings, with recycled materials in mind like the earthship model: Earthships: The Garbage Warrior

    Yes, trying to switch over your home and estate or ranch or farm or whatever to pure solar may not always prove to be economical, especially when you are trying to keep the same energy use standards when tied to the grid. I think BTPost and others who actually live off grid can attest to the fact that you will have to tightly govern your power use and just not expect a massive power bank like most urbanite dwellers have come to depend upon. I wish I could afford to live off grid, but I don't. Maybe some day.

    The purpose of my post was to illustrate the importance of changing our core philosophy about building. If we started to build homes which are more self-sustaining to begin with, and stopped building power hungry, inefficient mansions, we could start making progress. I am not saying it's always completely profitable to switch every existing home over to solar. Also, most Americans use far too much power to begin with. They will need to cut back and use sensible amounts of electricity and unplug or power down electronics and use what they have sparingly instead of always having everything on a remote, powered up and sucking juice. There are a lot of ways we can live smarter.
    Yard Dart and cjsloane like this.
  10. HK_User

    HK_User A Productive Monkey is a Happy Monkey Site Supporter

    No doubt!
    cjsloane and Brokor like this.
  11. shlljhn

    shlljhn Monkey

    They say the economy is improving then why is it that our GDP is going down? Our GDP had started to fall all the way from February. I just read this article by Michael. If you consider withe Dow Jones then you will see that the Stock market has started to give in.
  1. Quigley_Sharps
  2. Collapsenik
  3. Collapsenik
  4. scrapman21009
  5. Quigley_Sharps
  6. melbo
    Thread by: melbo, Aug 4, 2012, 0 replies, in forum: Peak Oil
  7. Brokor
  8. scrapman21009
  9. ghrit
  10. fireplaceguy
  11. lynnie
  12. melbo
  13. ColtCarbine
  14. melbo
  15. melbo
  16. Minuteman
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