PM : Copper?

Discussion in 'General Survival and Preparedness' started by STANGF150, Jun 4, 2011.


  1. STANGF150

    STANGF150 Knowledge Seeker

    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 26, 2015
  2. VisuTrac

    VisuTrac Ваша мать носит военные ботинки Site Supporter+++

    copper is trading at maybe 4.20 per pound. This for sale item at 13.00 plus ship.
    Not a deal premium way to high.

    yes there is a market for copper local recycler offering 2.80 per pound at 250 lb min, 3.50/# over 1000 lb.

    better to collect pre 1997 canadian pennies (us citizens can melt those) or pre-1983 us pennies for those outside of the us.

    high copper content, low alloying agents. = know copper value.

    but you need over 200,000 pennies to make it to the 1000# mark.

    I've seen electrical wire stripped wound into disks by scrappers and hauled off to the recycler.

    Ingots not for me. scrap copper or pennies are probably a better deal.

    seen large lots of pennies go on ebay for copper value. running about 2x face.

    YMMV.

    As a side note, copper was booming during the chinese building craze a few years back but now due to the slowdown in economies consumption has wained in the past 2-3 years. Chile is really ramping up their production capabilities and that may further reduce prices if demand remains low for the forseeable future. Buyer beware.
     
  3. Brokor

    Brokor Live Free or Cry Moderator Site Supporter+++ Founding Member

    Good question. It would cost $18.50 to have it delivered, and it is .999 fine copper and without coatings, so it's good copper. It is trading at just over $4, so what is that? Not good, right? It's $4 and change PER POUND trading, so that makes it about 4 times more expensive buying it from Amazon. I will say that it's still a good idea if you think you can barter it to a smith or whomever may use it. Maybe for bullets like you said...

    I don't know, man. It's a commodity, it is sure to go up with everything else, but as for its "precious" level, I simply don't know how to call it on this one.
     
  4. beast

    beast backwoodsman

    copper is a low heat melter
    thats why it was used before iron
    i keep some on hand for in my smithy
    but i figure once the SHTF i know where i can find all ill ever need :p
     
  5. gunbunny

    gunbunny Never Trust A Bunny

    I've been bitten by copper many times. When I was an apprentice electrician, I gathered up every scrap I could get my hands on- from 14ga and up. By the end of my 5 year apprenticeship, I had amassed 2 1/2 tons of copper. I didn't know it at the time, I had it spread out in boxes here and there at my parent's property. When they moved, I had to gather it all up, burn off the insulation in a big bonfire, and box it up after it took a day to cool off.

    Not having anywhere else to go, I had to take it in to the scrapyard. They didn't believe me when I told them how much I had (You always think you have less than you actually do- I only thought I had a ton, maybe a ton and a half). After negotiating a price, I got the paultry sum of 45 CENTS per pound. That was the going rate for #1 copper (good stuff) at the time. Nothing you can do about it.

    Imagine what I would have gotten if I was able to wait for a decade.

    Copper isn't a good bullet material. We only use copper jacketed bullets because of the Geneva convention, and for ultra-high velocity rifle and magnum pistol bullets. Cast lead with a gas check is fine for most rifles out there- I'd recommend getting lead (mostly), tin (some), and antimoney (little bit) to alloy and cast hard lead bullets- more commonly known as linotype. You can get some here at rotometals: Welcome to RotoMetals, Inc - Non Ferrous Metals and Custom Alloys Call Toll Free 1-800-779-1102

    You could cast a flat piece of copper and pound it into a sheet, but you have to have the right equipment to draw bullet jackets and swage lead into them. These guys: Corbin Home Page have all the equipment needed to make jackets (from tubing, not sheets, so you'll have a problem there) and swage a lead core.

    A little pricey, I think it is much easier to just get as much surplus bullets RIGHT NOW as you can for the cost of that equipment.

    Don't get me wrong, I love to shoot jacketed bullets, and have been for as long as I can remember. I just think that in our situation right now, lead is a much better item to have.

    If the situation presented itself today, I wouldn't turn down a pile of scrap copper wire. It would be handy for dealing with anything electrical.
     
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  6. Wolfgang2000

    Wolfgang2000 Monkey++

    I don't think copper is a PM. However it is a tangable.
     
  7. hedger

    hedger Monkey+

    High copper prices will possibly add to the housing market distress (now several years old).

    I recall that, back in the late 70's when we were buying our home, copper prices were considered to be high then, as well. There were two notable consequences: (1) some houses under construction (and the few that were deserted/unoccupied) were targeted by thieves and they were stripped of copper wiring. (2) Some homes were built with aluminum electrical wiring.

    I later heard anecdotal tales about how some house fires were caused by the aluminum wiring.

    I do not know if that was a myth or a fact (aluminum wiring being a factor in home fires).
     
  8. ghrit

    ghrit Ambulatory anachronism Administrator Founding Member

    Very much a fact. The aluminum alloy they started with on wire had a bad coefficient of expansion, and was subject to corrosion when it moved, raising the resistance at connections. Got hot and started some not too nice things. That's where the goop they use on Al wire connections was developed. I understand there is a better alloy being used these days, but still needs the goop. I do not believe that Al wire is legal in residences these days, but is OK on incoming services up to the main panel.
     
  9. mysterymet

    mysterymet Monkey+++

    All your big high voltage transmission lines are aluminum these days. Yes there were issues with it in household wiring.
    When looking at other metals as investments it is differet from looking at standard PM.
    I wouldn't buy copper for the express purpose of using it as a PM. Yes companies hedge with differet metals but that is in quantities far greater than you or I can buy.
     
  10. ghrit

    ghrit Ambulatory anachronism Administrator Founding Member

    Correct. It wasn't the wire itself, it was the connections.
     
  11. VisuTrac

    VisuTrac Ваша мать носит военные ботинки Site Supporter+++

    I had one of those said houses.
    it's not the wire. it's the connections.
    the word is galvanic corrosion. Two dissimilar metals+humidity = corrosion = high resistance at connection = heat = buhbye house.

    light in basement wouldn't turn on. went to change light bulb, ceramic base was freaking hot! killed power. found corrosion.

    Seems a previous owner had done their own electrical work adding on new outlets and tapped into existing with AL wire.

    check backs of added plugs, found they were for Cu only. not certified for Al

    Here in Detroit we strip all abandoned houses of the following:
    Copper wire (we trash the plaster/lat and or drywall)
    Copper plumbing (hell we will take galvanized too)
    Gas pipe but not before we by pass the meter and run a hose under ground to our crack houses
    Aluminum siding and gutters.

    Hell, if we are adventurous we will yank a transformer down from a pole and steal manhole covers.

    And take them to the junk dealer, he don't care where it came from.

    Don't believe me?
    Police: Man Trying To Steal Copper Wires Electrocuted - Detroit Local News Story - WDIV Detroit

    Manhole Cover Thefts Leave Gaping Holes - Detroit Local News Story - WDIV Detroit

    And you only thought you had to worry about getting carjacked or murdered here. You could also have a body being blown off a power pole and through your windshield just before you tear off your suspension in a gaping hole in the pavement before you are mugged, beaten and then shot.

    God I Love this town!
     
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  12. Wolfgang2000

    Wolfgang2000 Monkey++

    A couple years ago, when China was buy all metals, copper was really high. Right now Pre 81 us pennies, and all nickles are IIRC 90% copper. That gives them a intrinsic value.

    My last trip to the coin shop I saw copper rounds and bars for sale. I save all my nickles and 81 or older pennies. I keep another jar for the rest of my change. When it's full I cash it in for nickles.
     
  13. Huntinbull

    Huntinbull Monkey+

    Knew a guy that died stealing transformers for the platinum in them. He would climb the pole and shoot the main lines with a shotgun. One time the wires hung up and fell on him. I do not know what voltage and amperage comes into a transformer but it blew parts of him off.
     
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