Polar Shift

Discussion in 'General Survival and Preparedness' started by TraumaHawk2011, Apr 20, 2012.


  1. I was thinking on the lines of bugging in and make sure you cold survive the cold weather. I was thinking insulation, warming methods, sleeping bags, indoor tents, that kind of thing if possible, if anyone has done any research
     
  2. Jeff Brackett

    Jeff Brackett Monkey+++

    In the event of a capsizing shift, surviving cold weather would be a tertiary concern, at best. It would assume that you have already survived estimated wind speeds of anywhere from 300 mph up to 1000 mph (depending on how far you are from a pivot point, and how quickly the shift occurs), and massive flooding as the oceans slosh across much of the land masses. If you survive that, THEN you might need to worry about cold weather.
    [2c][2c]
     
  3. TheEconomist

    TheEconomist Creighton Bluejay


    So you are saying we would need to sruvive the old testament, got it.
     
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  4. Jeff Brackett

    Jeff Brackett Monkey+++

    Yeah, nothing major or anything, right? [camo]
     
  5. And you could give me some answers on my requested info, or continue to mock me, the choice is yours I guess. I understand the gravity of the situation, but being a prepper, are you asking me to prepare to die? No thank you !
     
  6. ssonb

    ssonb Confederate American

    What I am seeing Is there is a Solar Polar shift that has gotten stuck between gears....There might be a change in the heat output from the sun but they really dont know yet...Just sumthin to watch an keep on prepping.
     
  7. Jeff Brackett

    Jeff Brackett Monkey+++

    Trauma, I was not mocking you. Sorry if it came off that way, but it was not my intent at all. What was it you thought was mocking & I'll do my best to clarify. :oops:
     
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  8. wrc223

    wrc223 Monkey+

    I had a polar shift in my latst truck but now I got me an automatic. I still reach fer the polar though from time to time.
     
  9. No problem, just because you were being so dismissive and implying I did not know, study what I was talking about, which I have. But you were never obviously patronizing. No worries. Now do you have any ideas?
     
  10. Jeff Brackett

    Jeff Brackett Monkey+++

    Sorry you took it that way. While I never intended to be dismissive, it is clear that you are a little touchier here than I am comfortable with. I have worked for fifteen minutes on this reply in an attempt to keep from sounding patronizing, but I am honestly afraid that anything I say will be taken as condescending. The simple fact that I have to do this tells me that it would be best if I respectfully bow out of this conversation.
     
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  11. Cruisin Sloth

    Cruisin Sloth Special & Slow

    Most important thing is the Toilets would stop flushing !!!!!
    In the Lower / Southern Hem (as in now) Us Northerners would require there Crappers from the southern hemisphere so they would flush anti clockwise when the poles flipped.

    Hey great Business operation could be had.. in a world swapping meet.

    I'll have to do some real deep thinking on this , In the library,, on the throne[gasmask].


    Sloth
     
    oldawg likes this.
  12. Seems to me that you are the one who is touchy, but if you want to leave the table without any real participation I can respect that

    So creative! Thanks for disrupting!
     
  13. ssonb

    ssonb Confederate American

    Hey CS I wonder if one of those Automotive Air intake Tornadoes would work? Just stick it down the toilet and see if it would give it the proper "Twist" ...Might just be a TMI moment here[shtf]
     
  14. Gafarmboy

    Gafarmboy Monkey+++

    Touchy, aren't we!


    I have followed this thread from the beginning OP to the end and my take is this. Any input from another member that does not suit you, is apt to be ridiculed or accused of mocking you. Get over it. That is the beauty of the internet. Opinions. Lots of opinions.<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com<img src=" />

    Bottom line is if there is something as Earth-Shattering (yes, it is a pun) large as a polar shift, all bets are off on survival. Prepping out the butt will not matter. It will be a matter of luck and nothing but luck.



    Gafarmboy
    If you can not protect what you own, you won't own it long.
     
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  15. Jeff Brackett

    Jeff Brackett Monkey+++

    To keep from disrupting the discussion, Trauma & I took a quick sidebar via PM and have come to an understanding here. His primary concerns are as follows:

    </snip>
    My concern is still with regards to the actual framework behind your question. You have proposed a scenario in which a capsizing event type polar shift (aka "crustal shift") has thrust you into an arctic climate. I will reiterate my point that during a capsizing event, your proximity to one of the two pivot points would be inversely proportional to the relative velocity of your "trip" around the crust of the planet. IOW, the farther away from a pivot point you are, the worse the violence you will encounter (and by violence, I mean windspeed and flooding).

    As I recall, you're in Yakima, which means you are currently sitting at about 46.5deg north latitude. If you expect to quickly encounter extended arctic conditions, you would likely need to be "pivoted" to someplace within the Arctic Circle, which begins at 66.6 degrees north latitude. If we take a direct line from Yakima to the Arctic Circle, that's a trip of approximately 1800 miles. That means you would NOT be near a pivot point, since these points by their very nature would hardly move at all, relative to their latitudinal coordinates. They are the points around which the earth would rotate during the shift, which means they would hardly change at all, as far as latitudinal movement is concerned.

    Most of the theories I read hypothesize that the crust would shift anywhere from thirty to forty-five degrees, and that the event would likely take place in less than a three hour period. (Don't ask me where they got all that, I don't recall - it seems to me that the shift should be a ninety degree event, but I'm not the expert.) Assuming that's right, it means that in order for you to be concerned with sudden arctic conditions, you have to shift 1800 miles in three hours. Since the earth is basically a thin, solid crust rotating over a liquid core, and inside a gaseous envelope, you would have to take into account the fact that the gaseous envelope (our atmosphere) would not be moving as the solid crust does. This in turn means that the relative velocity of the crust through the atmosphere would be the equivalent of going through a hurricane with sustained winds of nearly 600 mph for three hours (1800 miles in 3 hours = 600 mph).

    Then you have the secondary concern of flooding. Just as the crust moves at a higher velocity than the surrounding atmosphere, the same is true (though to a lesser extent) with the oceans. Think about the fact that the crust will also be moving faster than the oceans. This would result in a cataclysmic "sloshing" effect in which tsunamis would overrun nearly every landmass in the world.

    In addition to all that, most proponents of this theory also believe that the incredible stresses placed on the crust would cause rifts and compressions in the landmasses, resulting in wide-scale volcanic eruptions around the world, releasing ash (or steam, if underwater) into the atmosphere. This will, admittedly, increase the chance of long term global cooling, but that will occur over a matter of weeks or months.

    In short, you have two near extinction level events occurring within a matter of hours of one another, followed by a "lesser" ELE of wide-scale volcanic activity. In this particular scenario, I can think of only three places that offer much chance of survival: at or near one of the two pivot points (as long as it isn't near a caldera or shoreline), on the open ocean in a sturdy watercraft, or in orbit around the planet watching as the SHTF.

    Trauma, please understand that I mean no disrespect here. I am just pointing out (as have others here), that there is only so much one can plan for. After a certain point, you have to accept that some things are simply out of your control, and you put your faith in the deity of your choice.

    However, now that I have told you all the reasons that I feel you should worry more about things you can do more about, I still haven't answered your initial questions. Your proposed scenario says that you have managed to survive the initial ELEs, and would now like to know how to bug in with an emphasis on long term cold weather survival. In that case, just google "how to survive in arctic conditions". That quick search led me immediately to http://angusadventures.com/arctic/index.html,http://www.storm-crow.co.uk/articles/arctic_survival.html, and http://www.scholastic.com/teachers/article/survival-arctic. There are several other sites that have decent advice regarding this type of survival prep. As a matter of fact, there is a "survival group" dedicated to preparing for your exact scenario at http://newglobaltrust.org/. From what I can tell, they appear to be a sensationalist group who are charging people for membership based on the predictions of a Belgian author named Patric Geryl, who claims that the polar shift you mentioned will come between December 19 and December 21 of 2012. Before you get upset, I'm not lumping you into that group at all. I'm just making you aware that there are other folks that are concerned with this possibility.

    My advice (FWIW) - if you want to prepare for long term cold weather survival, by all means do so. There are plenty of folks here who will be happy to help and advise you. That's what I'm here for (to learn from those who know more than I do). Your profile indicates you have a medical background, so I'll be looking to you when I have questions in that regard. My background is in machining, writing, IT, knife making, and martial arts. I don't consider myself expert at any of them, and I'm sure there are others on this site who know considerably more than I do. But I will be happy to help as the topics arise.

    Just don't be so defensive, and treat everyone with the same respect you would like to receive. And if folks tell you that there may be a flaw in your reasoning, don't get upset with them. Consider that they may have a point. That won't always be the case, but when several people tell you the same thing, chances are good that you may be missing something. Use that knowledge to determine your next move.

    That's it. I'm getting off my soap box now. I hope you take the above in the spirit in which it was intended. If not, I've tried my best. And that is what I wish you - all the best.
     
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  16. ghrit

    ghrit Bad company Administrator Founding Member

    And that ignores acceleration and deceleration. Thus the highest speed would be well in excess of 600 barring a rather violent start and stop of the crust. The odds of surviving that are essentially nil. Especially so if you consider that the crust might stop, but odds are anyone riding on that crustal plate won't.

    But, if someone was able to survive the violence, any preparations made for arctic conditions would be worth having. If, anyway, they had the good fortune to land in proximity to the final location of the prepper.

    It looks like you guys are on nearly the same page. Good on ya'.
     
  17. TheEconomist

    TheEconomist Creighton Bluejay

    Would being on an ocean really be a good thing? Would air force one wreck?
     
  18. Cruisin Sloth

    Cruisin Sloth Special & Slow

    One can only hope , and it's full !!

    If these poles were to swap as in what there saying on the SUN , Solar Flares send offs for the sun would seem like our gravity would have a major flux & effect.



    Im assuming that we all might be discovered again in a few billion years as early man/apes..

    Prepping for local traumas is good , thinking the end is tomorrow & living that way is not a healthy way to enjoy what we have now !!

    Sloth
     
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  19. Jeff Brackett

    Jeff Brackett Monkey+++

    We're getting way out of my league here, so the following is nothing more than my guess:

    I would assume that the same velocity delta between the solid crust and the liquid ocean would work in favor of an ocean craft, provided it was in deep ocean. Since the relative air velocity is the result of the crust moving at a higher velocity than the atmosphere, and the tsunamis are the result of the same crust moving faster than the liquid on it, the the relative speed of air to liquid should be lower than that of air to land.

    Of course, being close to shore would likely render that slight advantage nil, since you would then be caught up in the tsunamis and rolled like a leaf across the landscape. Remember that initially, it isn't so much the water moving across the land, as the land rolling under the water. Then, as the movement of the land beneath the water transmits its momentum to the surrounding water, the water eventually begins to follow the direction that the land is moving.

    And in the immortal words of Billy Mays... "But wait, there's more!" Because now that the water is beginning to catch up to the relative velocity of the land moving beneath it, the land reaches equilibrium, decellerates, and stops. Now there is another delta in the land speed vs water speed ratio. Land stops, water continues, more tsunamis.

    Assuming a vessel that is far out to sea, and the originally conjectured thirty degree rotation, I could see that vessel surviving, since there are plenty of areas in the ocean where one could travel sixty degree of latitude without hitting land. A lot would depend on where the pivot points were, and how much angular momentum goes into the shift as the earth reorients.

    Again, this is all hypothetical, and the actual physics behind it all are going to be way beyond me right now. But just looking at a map, I could imagine a sea vessel that is far out there surviving by virtue of simply being so far between land masses that it isn't caught up in the main turbulence ("slosh") that would be worst as water flows over land.

    Like I said in my reply to Trauma, deep ocean is one of three places that I thought might offer some chance of survival. I don't know how much of a chance, but a chance nevertheless. :)

    Of course, your question referencing AF1 raises a possibility I hadn't considered. Since the atmosphere would initially be the least affected by the shift, that actually makes sense. Maybe we could save ourselves by building a fleet of hot air balloons?? :D
     
    TheEconomist likes this.
  20. Wow lots of useful info thanks guys. I'm at work all night but will to reply tomorrow. As for your question in the PM yes I work in healthcare, I'm a trauma room/emergency room nurse, working on my masters degree now, and yes I will be glad to answer any questions you might have in that realm. Thanks for the thoughtful reply
     
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