Poor mans EMP protection....

Discussion in 'General Survival and Preparedness' started by Witch Doctor 01, Aug 12, 2017.

  1. Witch Doctor 01

    Witch Doctor 01 Mojo Maker

    I've been doing some research and thought I would ask for some other thoughts on a poor mans faraday cage... It seems That the easiest "Poor mans faraday cage is a old microwave oven. It's designed to contain microwaves and should hold other high frequency waves as well... I'm limited in the availability to test this but It seems workable...

    Any thoughts?
    Motomom34 likes this.
  2. BTPost

    BTPost Stumpy Old Fart,Deadman Walking, Snow Monkey Moderator

    Or just bury, the items below a foot or two of good wet ground... sealed in water tight containers...
    Fluffycat and Thunder5Ranch like this.
  3. Bandit99

    Bandit99 Monkey+++ Site Supporter+

    Sure! An old microwave is great! I'd like to dig me a deep root cellar someday soon and stock it with my electronics along with wife's canned food and etc. I saw the wife's church's yesterday and it must be 20 feet deep and got the itch again...
    Motomom34 likes this.
  4. oil pan 4

    oil pan 4 Monkey+++

    Put your modern 2.4ghz phone in a microwave. See how much signal it gets.

    Note: do not turn microwave on.
  5. T. Riley

    T. Riley Monkey+++

    Old microwaves do not work any better than new ones. They don't work at all in my experience. This is what I am working on at present. It's a fold together file box from Walmart covered with two layers of heavy aluminum foil. I used spray adhesive to hold the foil on the box. The seams are all sealed with aluminum tape. After filling, the foil lined top is taped on with aluminum tape. Everything inside is wrapped with alternate layers of aluminum foil and plastic. Two layers of Aluminum foil. Three, and the final layer, is plastic for insulation. Seal any tears with aluminum tape. I haven't tested it yet but in theory it should work and it's light weight and cheap to build. It was designed by Dr. Author Bradley author of the Survivalist Series of books along with books on EMP preparation. He has a YouTube channel where you can see him testing this stuff.

    How to Make Your Own Faraday Cage at Home (Quick, Easy, Effective!)
  6. techsar

    techsar Monkey+++

    Also, put a 2 meter ht and a 5.8ghz phone to get an idea on what frequencies may be problematic. Throw a sw receiver in, too.
  7. Thunder5Ranch

    Thunder5Ranch Monkey+++

    BTPost for the win :) bury below the frost line and cover with atleast 2 feet of dense packed clay. You would be amazed at how much you can fit in even 4" PvC pipe. Things of electronic nature I vac pac with moisture absorbers in anti static bags. and then vac pac it again. A couple feet of heavy clay is very good EMP protection.
  8. ghrit

    ghrit Bad company Administrator Founding Member

    As long as it's moist ---
    Thunder5Ranch likes this.
  9. Thunder5Ranch

    Thunder5Ranch Monkey+++

    Without going into too much detail my under ground storage is also under a hog barn, trust me the hogs keep it moist and curious eyes from getting too close.
  10. Gator 45/70

    Gator 45/70 Monkey+++

    Crap, I hit ground water with a regular set of post hole diggers, Underground storage is out for me.
    Zimmy and techsar like this.
  11. ghrit

    ghrit Bad company Administrator Founding Member

    Not necessarily. Use a post hole auger, put your stuff in a X" dia plastic pipe, ballast it down and drop it in.
    oldawg, Thunder5Ranch and Gator 45/70 like this.
  12. duane

    duane Monkey+++

    I kind of look on the danger of EMP as a favor to the prepper. While I like the thought of a chainsaw, have one in a metal box, the thought of having a couple bow saws and a 2 man saw, the sharpening and setting tools and a couple dozen files as a backup means that even if there is no ENP or my faraday cage works, I still have something that does not need chains, oil, fuel, etc, that would last a long time and then be recycled into some good knives. Same for push hoe, hand water pumps, splitting mauls, spading forks, and so on, May not last forever, but at 79, I guess another 20 years should be sufficient. Seems interesting that all the technology that doesn't require fuel or electronics is solidly based on the about 1870's period and was about as advanced of a technology that ever existed without gasoline and electricity.
    guidoLaMoto-, Ganado and Gator 45/70 like this.
  13. techsar

    techsar Monkey+++

    Well, it certainly would be damp!
    Same way here...
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  14. Motomom34

    Motomom34 Monkey+++

    Someone said wrap your electronic in tinfoil then put in an ammo box inside a file cabinet. I know the ammo box and file cabinet was in a book but the tinfoil was an extra layer. Not sure if it works or is grounded at all. Sounded to simple to be true. What do the experts think?
  15. Tempstar

    Tempstar Monkey+++

    Microwaves will stop 2.4 ghz and below, from escaping. High energy waves and those above 2.4 ghz will penetrate the holes in the screen in the glass. A sealed metal can (no holes) will stop or attenuate RF rather well. Ammo cans do a great job. Grounding is also not necessary as an ungrounded metal can will be almost RF invisible as there is no path to dissipate the RF energy, thus it passes over the skin of the can and continues on.
    Motomom34 likes this.
  16. T. Riley

    T. Riley Monkey+++

    Ammo cans have rubber seals so there is no unbroken shielding. I have not seen them block AM or FM radio, wifi, or cellphone signals without the devices being individually wrapped in foil and plastic. Maybe I am doing something wrong.
    Motomom34 likes this.
  17. T. Riley

    T. Riley Monkey+++

    Alternate layers of plastic and heavy duty aluminum foil will kill the signal on everything I have tried it on, so far.
    Tempstar, Motomom34 and Gator 45/70 like this.
  18. BTPost

    BTPost Stumpy Old Fart,Deadman Walking, Snow Monkey Moderator

    There is an issue with thinking the inside of a Microwave Oven, will protect your items from a local EMP... and that is, These are designed to keep the X-Band Energy (10Ghz) inside the oven, and NOT to keep other Frequencies OUT....The shielding, and Screening imbedded in the glass front, are specifically designed for isolating 10Ghz, And are not really as effective more than an octave in either direction, in frequency... Where a Nuke EMP Burst is a Very Broad Spectrum Source, basically from D.C. To Gamma Radiation, and everywhere in between... AND on the order of Tens of orders of Magnitue Stronger at distance, that the Highest Power Magnitron, in ANY Microwave Onen...
    Tempstar likes this.
  19. arleigh

    arleigh Goophy monkey

    Dirt is not an EMP shield
    Ever use a metal detector ?
    The EMP is a wave form that upon contact with metal forms a direction of flow toward ground, providing there is enough iron in it.
    Not all dirt is iron rich so ground is not always achieved with in a few feet .
    If you look at a coil on a small engine the magnet on the fly wheel spins past it and the wire wound in the laminated iron block . The charge builds up a capacitance(like a battery) , and when the points contact and open , the energy tryin to maintain contact, spark across the gaps , 1 at the points and secondly the spark plug .
    That is an EMP field being made with the magnet , electricity made through the wire, giving the magnetic field a direction
    and points and spark plug putting it to work.
    Essentially an EMP is working the same as the magnet on the fly wheel of that engine . That energy burst is causing a strong magnetic charge that is basically looking for direction and metal is the best conductor , the more dense the metal the better the conductor .
    Electricity doesn't travel the core of the metal, but the surface .
    This in mind a metal box will have an electrical charge inside and out , BUT, the magnetic field that made it will have found a path and be absorbed in that metal surface.
    This is why it is important to electrically insulate the inside of the container with material that does not conduct electricity . If you wrap your gear in aluminum foil and the foil touches the inside of the metal box it will share some of the voltage passing through it. but not the magnetic field. Even so I believe that it is only necessary to electrically insulate gear on the inside . Adding more metal on the inside might exacerbate the issue.
    I use steel filing cabinets, and steel storage cabinets .
    The larger the cabinet the more important the it be grounded.
    Remember that EMP is a wave form , not a gas .
    If it is possible that there is some measure of warning the first thing I would be doing is'
    1 . disconnecting from the grid main breakers and sub panels remember there can be arcing with a CME
    A lot of homes use water pipes for grounding , if you know where it is disconnect it.
    2 remove solar panels in service, and put them in with the other stored panels.
    disconnect all controllers and put them away.
    double check shielding on generators .make sure they are disconnected.
    disconnect the batteries on every thing vehicles and house
    remove all lights (LED) and put in protection.
    Radio and other electronics are put away already.
    Flash lights especially need to be in protection.
    Tempstar likes this.
  20. BTPost

    BTPost Stumpy Old Fart,Deadman Walking, Snow Monkey Moderator

    What you missed in the EMP Theory is that EMP is a Pulsed Wave, that follows the Surface Wave Effect model... Unless you are Directly Under the source, the Dirt acts as plain that the provides a surface for the wave to follow as it propagates along... The wave propagates along the plain, and doesn't penitrate into the ground. This is why Long Transmission Lines act as Giant Antennas, that collect significant Charge when strung above the surface and at any angle other than parallel to the path of the wave...The longer the line, the more massive the charge it collects, and the more damage when it goes to ground...EMP isn't going to effect short lengths of wire, near as much as Long stretches... Semiconductors will be subject to Electrostatic Discharges, that could destroy the junctions, and the thin insulation between the layers that make up the chips...
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  12. Lancer

    EMP theory 2018-04-11

    Stumbled across this while looking for old schematics.
    Posted By: Lancer, Apr 11, 2018 in category: Communications
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