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Discussion in 'General Survival and Preparedness' started by TailorMadeHell, Jul 3, 2006.

  1. TailorMadeHell

    TailorMadeHell Lurking Shadow Creature

    Okay, this may be in the wrong place though I couldn't figure where to put it. Also, I don't know if this has been asked or not. This may be lengthy or not.

    Okay, I will post an idea for a place and I would like your opinions on it.

    I am a single guy without children. I have family though they may prepare for themselves. So with that said, if I prepared a place it would be a place prepared for ten people including myself. Ten as I can see myself with a mate and helping some who couldn't help themselves. I am not trained in any survival techniques, crop growing, livestock tending or anything that would be beneficial. The only thing that I bring to the table now is that I can and without a second thought, pull the trigger on anyone that is threatening my safety. Second, I have a level head on my shoulders and can think things through enough to see some things that should be done and do them correctly. Here are my thoughts on....

    I am thinking the location would have to be in some kind of moutain country, Colorado type. This would give me several advantages. Defense, possible underground water source, good soil for food, livestock grazing grounds and wild game.

    I would have to grow crops of some kind of vegetables, plants for ropes and such. I know that it would be somewhere where game is frequent to pass through, even if it's an old tough bobcat. I think that you can use fat from most animals as fuel.

    I would like to be at the head of a waterway that I can control through force if needs be. This would be patrolled as to keep maroons from messing it up for people downstream to a point. Not going to go too far on patrol. Neighbors would have to take up some care of their own stretch. I also know that a second backup pump would be needed to hit reserves of water should the main body run dry.

    It would have to be an easily defendable position. Mayhaps it could be dynamited out to have a narrow ledge leading to my area or something like that, would have to see the area.

    I would have a bunker built underground with a very well sealable and disguised entry though have it built in such a way as to offer gunports should it be anything other than chemical or nuclear warfare.

    My question is what should I take into consideration and where should I start looking for the closest to perfect locale for this type of venture? Also, how many acres would be a good area for having a homestead or 'compound' if you will?

    This is just the start of my questions, I will try to keep them all in this thread as not to keep making more threads for my constant questions.
  2. E.L.

    E.L. Moderator of Lead Moderator Emeritus Founding Member

    It really depends upon how many people you will have to defend, plant and harvest. 10-15 acres is usually a good start, but impossible to defend with just one person. Finding land with good soil, water, and natural barriers would be a good start.

    I would suggest learning a few tools for survival. In a true SHTF scenario, I think the most difficult thing will be providing food. Food has to be at the top of the list. Short term you can start buying extra canned foods, freeze dried foods, and/or other long term food options. If you have a yard try planting a small garden. Plant a few fruit trees, and do a few online searches regarding hydroponics. Hydroponics Store | Hydroponic Gardening Supplies | Grow Lights Utilizing hydroponics doesn't require soil.

    "Hydroponics is the easy way to grow fresh herbs, vegetables, fruits and flowers indoors, all year long without the need for soil or natural sunlight."
  3. ghrit

    ghrit Ambulatory anachronism Administrator Founding Member

    There are a number of postings on the topic. FWIW, the major concensus is a tribal setup, cooperative in nature, but not necessarily sharing a homestead, but adjoining acreage. You might try a search on this forum for "tribe" and gather some thoughts from that set of threads. It has been estimated that you'll need about 20 acres of hardwood stand for a long haul sustainable fuel supply per household in the colder regions, say upper Michigan. Pasturage is another story. Monkeyman might chime in on this, he is up to speed on pasturage for all sorts of critters. Start with a growing season's supply of food for the mob, after that you can plant and harvest as needed.

    There are a number of manufacturers that do underground dwellings. Google them up, and dig out your wallet, it's pretty pricey stuff.
  4. TailorMadeHell

    TailorMadeHell Lurking Shadow Creature

    Thanks for the replies. I'll check that out.
  5. monkeyman

    monkeyman Monkey+++ Moderator Emeritus Founding Member

    On how much acerage it takes to graze critters it depends a great deal on the area and land scape. If you are here in MO (or at least my section of it) and have the pasture cleared with good mix of clover, alphalfa, grass, etc you may get by with as little as a couple acres each for them to graze on and another 1-2 acres of the same to get at least 2-3 cuttings a year of hay from for the winter. On the same acerage you could probably run at least 3-4 goats and they can also do well on brush and such in the wooded areas. On the other hand if you are looking at areas like CO in the mountains then you would likely need about 4-5 times the land at least since it would be covered in snow more and also dont grow as well the rest of the time. A bunch of rabbits could also be used to breed for food since they can be bread every 6-8 weeks and give a litter of 5-10 babies each time that are big enouph to eat within 2-3 months. Oh and the goats bread each year normaly throwing twins that can breed in 8-12 months.
  6. TailorMadeHell

    TailorMadeHell Lurking Shadow Creature

    Thanks, I will take that into consideration. I am starting from nothing so I have a long way to go. I am however finding maps of the US with these qualities.... I am looking for waterways, mountain ranges for defense, animal trails for game food, state parks for hardwoods and open range for keeping an eye on strangers. So I basically get all the maps and overlay them all and am trying to come up with the best locale.
  7. E.L.

    E.L. Moderator of Lead Moderator Emeritus Founding Member

    Another thing to think about when looking to relocate is it a state with pro gun laws, and pro carry laws? After the SHTF it won't mean that much, but until that time you want to be able to protect yourself.
  8. monkeyman

    monkeyman Monkey+++ Moderator Emeritus Founding Member

    I notice one of the things you mention is public land or state parks. I know a lot of folks like the idea of these kinds of land close by with the thought of being able to use the resources there includeing game, timber, etc. but one thing to keep in mind, and the reason I would not want to be near public lands, is that a LOT of folks who plan to bug out plan to go out and lay claim to tracts of public land and a LOT of folks who dont even have this much of a plan or preperation will also remember it as a nice spot where they camped or just head there because it isnt privately owned. So you are likely to have a new city pop up in those public lands especialy if there is a major city within a few hundred miles and have to deal with all the new neighbors many of whom may decide they now own that land and dont want anyone 'trespassing' while others will figure the local farms are good shoping areas for what they want or need. So it may be buying added trouble in the event of a widespread SHTF situation.
  9. TailorMadeHell

    TailorMadeHell Lurking Shadow Creature

    I know that will happen and I know that it is happening now, by the homeless. There are homeless people I have met and they have spoken of living in the ranger cabins in the north boundaries of Yellowstone, as the funding for yellowstone has been drastically cut and the rangers no longer use these areas though they may patrol them. However there are countless homeless that squat in those cabins. So I am back at the location decision. I could try to get a farm that has been taken for nonpayment of taxes though there are two things with this. First, if the SHTF, would farmer brown come back to claim his property or Secondly, by paying the taxes and essentially taken farmer brown's old residence does that put a bad cloud over me for partaking of taxation victims.

    I wouldn't mind living next door to a farm with my own stretch of property though I have to look at all people as threats unless I know them or they approach me the right way. I certainly do not want squatters rushing my property in hopes of taking over. I know that at such time as paper deeds become null and void, that is when metal deeds kick in. I don't know. I'm just getting more and more confused by this the more I look into it.

    Maybe I'll apply for dual citizenship and when it happens, I'll bug out to the remote reaches of Canada. Though I detest wintry wastelands. I am only thinking of the north as the snow in winter may become a deterrent for most citylife that bugs out. Any recommendations on what area would be the best? I will entertain all thoughts. Thanks.
  10. monkeyman

    monkeyman Monkey+++ Moderator Emeritus Founding Member

    Well I personaly like MO for the fertile land, decent gun laws and not to much over population and such but I would say it would come down to anyplace that fit some basic criteria.

    -Reasonable distance from any metro areas. Its not a bad thing to have some towns around big enouph to be able to shop for the things you need but keep in mind that the further you are from the big cities the more the waves of refugees will disipate before getting to you and the more of the bad ones will have already met someone else ready to stop them.

    -A place with no codes. Most areas have a lot of local and county laws that will screw with you over building and other uses of your land, its a good idea to find a place where you can use your own land as you see fit to the greatest degree possible.

    -Good soil. An area where the soil will do well for crops (and if it dose well for crops it should do well for graze) will help a lot to make what ever amount of land you have serve you better. Another reason I like the midwest, we have soil that allows us to provide grain to the world and MO is also second only to Texas in production of beef so obviously good graze.

    -Good growing seasons. If you are high up in the mountians or way north then you have a lot longer and harder winters and so have less time you can grow food and more of the time you have to cut fire wood to heat for and hay to feed livestock for.

    -Gun friendly. As Im sure you know living in an area with to many stupid gun laws makes it hard to gather firearms or practice with them without running risk of living in a cell not to mention being able to carry and defend yourself if TSHTF in your own life in the form of a mugger with a gun, a carjacker or some other thug before there is any kind of a colapse of curent laws and such.

    -Water. A good water supply would be a concern and the most ideal solution is a good well that is hopefuly not to deep (less than a couple hundred feet so a hand pump will work) and has good water and plenty of it.

    -Decent job market. Unless you do something for a living that you can do online or something then you have to look at being able to get a job in the area since you still have to have money to get by even if you are pretty self reliant in order to pay the property taxes and buy the things you cant make your self as well as for the car and so on. If you are able to work on line the next one is even more of a factor.

    -Cost of living. We may be trying to be prepaired for a SHTF situation but we also have to be prepaired for things to keep on keeping on as they are so how much you can make in the area and what it costs for utilities and food and all the other things you will need in that area, its usualy related to what you can make in the area but not always.

    -Cost of land in the area. There is a BIG difference in what you will pay for land from one area to another so how far your money will go would also be a consideration. Even here in MO (since thats what I know the best) you can be in some areas like where I am and land goes for around $1000-$1500/acre, in some areas of the state its around $700/acre and in other areas of the state its around $2500 and all of that is in rural areas and not even counting areas like around the lakes where it can be more like 10K/acre and a lot more in the cities. If you have say $150K to put into a home/land then you could buy a lot more of a farm that will fill all your basic needs for food, fuel (firewood), water, and so on and can be set up for defense say in an area where land goes for 1k/acre than say a lot of the areas in CO up in the mountians where as I understand it land is 3 times that or more.

    -Off the beaten path. You dont nesicarily have to be clear out in the wilderness to be off the map. Most folks moveing through an area will stick to the major hiways and if they get off of them they will still mostly all stay to the black top. If you are a couple of miles from the nearest blacktop (paved road) and maybe you even have to turn off of the gravel road that conects to the blacktop, then you wont show up on hardly any maps and will not have many folks wandering through especialy unless its around hunting season and the folks have gas to burn which they wouldnt for long in a SHTF situation.

    There are some other things I just cant think of at the moment but that should hit the highlights.
  11. TailorMadeHell

    TailorMadeHell Lurking Shadow Creature

    Thanks Monkeyman.
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