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Semi-Trash pump for water and sand from creek

Discussion in 'General Survival and Preparedness' started by azrancher, Feb 21, 2015.

  1. azrancher

    azrancher Monkey +++

    OK, as some of you know I ordered a semi-trash pump to pump water and sand out of my creek to water and put down a layer of sand in the new orchard that I just put in...

    1. NorthStar 2" semi-trash pump works great (from Northern Tool & Equipment).
    2. Honda 5.5 HP gas engine started first pull (made in Thailand).
    3. Takes a while to prime.
    4. Sucks like a lady of the evening on Bourbon Street, or Hooker Hill in Itaewon Korea.
    5. Does suck sand at full throttle.
    6. Problem... Out pumps the creek at full throttle. 60 GPM is what the creek is flowing.
    7. Throttle it down to the creek flow, it doesn't pump sand.
    8. Solution, it still will flood irrigate my orchard.
    9. In a survival situation it will be used to fill a 5,000 gallon water tank that will gravity water the orchard.

  2. Dunerunner

    Dunerunner Monkey

    How far below the creek is the orchard? Couldn't you gravity flow from the creek to your 5,000 gallon tank and pump from that? Then there is no sand issue, don't pump the creek dry and I'm just asking, don't know your set up.
  3. azrancher

    azrancher Monkey +++

    I may have to GPS the rise, I'm thinking the edge of the orchard is about 12' above the creek, I have a 20' suction hose from the center of the creek to the pump, and a 50' discharge hose. which brings it up to the first tree in the orchard, I have another 25' hose on that one, but need to buy another 50' hose to reach the far corner of the orchard.

    Ah yes gravity flow out of the creek.... I did have a 3" PVC pipe from further up the creek behind a small rock dam, down to my ducks, however after several floods it is going to be hard to find the input, and then there is the problem of getting the flood sand and mud out of it, the pipe is under ground. I don't think there is enough elevation drop from the West end of the property to the East end (450'), and of course that would be an engineering nightmare.

    The creek pretty much ends (goes underground) just past my main property, so there are no other property owners that I am going to piss off in this adventure.

    Tully Mars, sec_monkey and Dunerunner like this.
  4. vonslob

    vonslob Monkey++

    Az from your posts it looks like you are in your own little garden of eden, an oasis in the desert. We bermed up areas to collect runoff at my grandpa's place in nm that still hold water. It is no longer a working enterprise but i would love to retire on it.
    Tully Mars, sec_monkey and Dunerunner like this.
  5. ghrit

    ghrit Ambulatory anachronism Administrator Founding Member

    Rancher, try Google Earth for the elevations, will save you some time wandering the ground. From what I gather, it's pretty accurate.
  6. azrancher

    azrancher Monkey +++

    Really Google earth gives elevations, now you tell me... I'm all hot and sweaty 70* PC here.
    GPS was fluxuating but it is about an 8' rise from the creek to the orachard.

    Tully Mars likes this.
  7. kellory

    kellory An unemployed Jester, is nobody's fool. Banned

    You could clear the inlet easily from the downhill end with pressurized water. Just keep the hose running, and keep feeding it up the pipe. I use the same method to clear a frozen underground downspout discharge.
  8. azrancher

    azrancher Monkey +++

    Yeah they call those bermed up places "tanks" But I always thought they looked more like ponds. Yeah what sold me on this property was the creek, and of course it doesn't run year round, typically Jan-Jun, this year it started in Oct and hasn't completely stopped since. I typically put a "Little Giant" pool cover pump in at the incoming edge and use it to pump thru 1/2" drip irrigation pipe to the 5,000 gallon tank for irrigation.

  9. ghrit

    ghrit Ambulatory anachronism Administrator Founding Member

    Jeez. All you gotta do is ask --:lol:. Along the bottom where the lat and long are, there are two elevations given. You should have no trouble figuring out which one you want to use. (The other one is the apparent height of the view.) Your GPS accuracy is limited by dot gov, probably not better than ten feet unless you get lucky.
    Tully Mars likes this.
  10. azrancher

    azrancher Monkey +++

    Ah yes Google Earth has confirmed that it is 8'.

    I thought that the .GOV had removed the error from GPS, except while we are war, which is just about all the time.

    Last edited: Feb 21, 2015
  11. BTPost

    BTPost Old Fart Snow Monkey Moderator

    GPS derived elevations are notoriously unreliable under normal 3D triangulation. To get better resolution, one needs to Post Process the GPS Data, with a Known DataSet, taken from a Surveued, in GPS Reference Point.
    I use such a Known Reference here, when doing Gps Mapping. Years ago I had a Gps Remote Antenna Surveyed in to +/- 5cm, by a local Surveyer. I then collect reference Data from that GPS Receiver and take the difference from the surveyed location, and the current GPS Readings, being taken, concurrently with my Field GPS Readings of the area I am interested in. I then Post Process the Field Data with the Known GPS Differetial Data, to get the best, most accuracy, for the Field Data. I can usually get Position fixes for my Field Data, to better that .25 Meters, and elevation Data to one meter, or better.
    This type of Post Processing is used by most surveyors to get similar or better Position Data Accuracy.
    Airtime likes this.
  12. Mindgrinder

    Mindgrinder Karma Pirate Ninja Jedi Bipolar WINNING M.L.F.

    If you put a few inches to a foot thick of wood chips as cover in your orchard....it'll need FAR less water.
  13. HK_User

    HK_User A Productive Monkey is a Happy Monkey Site Supporter

    I wonder just where he'd find that much.
    Mindgrinder likes this.
  14. Mindgrinder

    Mindgrinder Karma Pirate Ninja Jedi Bipolar WINNING M.L.F.

    Now that you mention it....you're right!

    This whole post is SUSPECT....everybody knows there are no rivers, trees or water in Arizona...

  15. Airtime

    Airtime Monkey+++ Site Supporter

    There is free differential reference and post processing service called OPUS through the CORS service.
    Continuously Operating Reference Station (CORS) - National Geodetic Survey
    OPUS: the Online Positioning User Service, process your GNSS data in the National Spatial Reference System

    Interestingly, with the significant price reductions in recent years with RTK GPS systems (stands for Real Time Kinematics) that can achieve 1-2 cm accuracy in real time, post processing is starting to fall out of vogue (it's still a good methodology). The construction and agriculture industries have latched onto RTK with such demand some very reasonably priced systems have come along. Yes, they still need a reference station(s) generating differential correction data but some states are deploying services to provide it thru web access as a free public service. Subscription services have been around for years and many are moving from UHF/VHF radio systems to 4G/LTE cell service to provide correction information in real time. RTK correction stations are also becoming networked so their data can be aggregated and interpolations between stations generated allowing fewer stations to be required to still get the same RTK correction accuracy. Pretty neat stuff that allows an auto steer system to guide a monster tractor or earth mover across a field with just a couple centimeter accuracy. The trick RTK employs is that in addition to looking at the time delays in the GPS signals, they also look at the phase shift in the radio signals from the satellites.

    If still curious, follow some of these links:
    Real Time Kinematic - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    Finally, A List of Public RTK Base Stations in the U.S. : GPS World
    GPS.gov: Augmentation Systems
    RTK GNSS Receivers: A Flooded Market? : GPS World

    If you want to see some of the fun things RTK facilitates, search YouTube for Kinze autonomous grain cart (company called Jaybridge Robotics designed the system and I've worked a bit with them on a different project). Also search on auto steer tractors.

    Have fun.
    Tully Mars and kellory like this.
  16. kellory

    kellory An unemployed Jester, is nobody's fool. Banned

    Trimble Dual GPS Machine Control:

    Blade height is controlled by GPS for the perfect grade, slope, and drain placement for parking lots, and such.
  17. HK_User

    HK_User A Productive Monkey is a Happy Monkey Site Supporter

    Better to have a supply tank and use drip irrigation. I set up my first drip irrigation some 40 years ago and gotta say they work really well.
    kellory likes this.
  18. azrancher

    azrancher Monkey +++

    There are no trees or water in AZ, OPSEC everyone, there is just desert and...
    Tully Mars likes this.
  19. kellory

    kellory An unemployed Jester, is nobody's fool. Banned

    Yes, that's very true. I saw it first hand last time I went fishing there after tubing.....:rolleyes:
  20. HK_User

    HK_User A Productive Monkey is a Happy Monkey Site Supporter

    Flagstaff, great trees.
    azrancher likes this.
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