Solar Storm Effects on electronics?

Discussion in 'General Survival and Preparedness' started by Ajax, Aug 11, 2011.

  1. Ajax

    Ajax Monkey++

    If were were to be hit with a CME like what happened in the late 1800's would it have the same devastating EMP effect as what we have read about EMP bombs going on and trashing electronics and wired devices, would it be worse, is it unknown what the real effects would be. If it happened before it will happen again eventually but the difference now is how much we rely on electronics.

    Solar Storms Building Toward Peak in 2013, NASA Predicts - Yahoo! News

    Would something like a solar flare or EMP have any effect on devices like flashlights or battery operated radios ect.?
    Kingfish likes this.
  2. Pyrrhus

    Pyrrhus Monkey+++

    I think it would take one heck of a solar flare to replicate the effects of a nuclear generated EMP. I'm not sure that a "Carrington Event" could do things like wipe out the computer on your car, but it would knock out transformers and other things connected to the grid. Interestingly, transformers can't be built without electricity, and factories won't have electricity without transformers. You can see where that goes.

    I tend to think that simpler electronics will continue to work with a solar flare, even a big one. Battery operated radios, maybe not. Look inside one sometime, and you will see ICCs (integrated circuit cards). All it takes is for one of those tiny leads being blown for the whole radio to be rendered useless. Well, it would work as a doorstop.

    I used to be a radio tech. The military uses radios that are shielded against EMP. The catch is, in order for the shielding to work, each screw has to be torqued to a specific number of inch pounds. Now ask me how many torque screwdrivers we had. I think that if we have a big enough flare, we will see a lot of electronics that cease to work, but there will be some things that do. I could be completely wrong on all of this.
    forge1 and Kingfish like this.
  3. Kingfish

    Kingfish Self Reliant

    I have studied EMP effects for several years now. I have not studied Solar Flares. I would welcome any knowledge on this subject as well. I am assuming any steps taken to prevent damage against an EMP pulse would also protect against the flare pulse. I have constructed a fairly large copper faraday box to protect several Items I feel necessary to survive long term.

    I am going to watch this thread as well. Thanks for posting this Important question. KF
    forge1 likes this.
  4. Pyrrhus

    Pyrrhus Monkey+++

    This is, I am sure, an oversimplification but a solar flare of sufficient magnitude (I'm thinking high X-class) would interact with the earth's magnetic field and create a natural EMP. I've read about the physics behind the phenomenon, but it is more than I can understand, much less explain. I would think any precautions taken for a man-made EMP would work for a natural EMP.
    Kingfish likes this.
  5. BTPost

    BTPost Stumpy Old Fart,Deadman Walking, Snow Monkey Moderator

    When these "Talking Head" Yahoos from NOAA or some other outfit send out a Press Release like the one sited here. There are a FEW things, you need to understand.

    1. The guy talking to the NEWSies, are NOT the research folks trying to figure out the issues, involved. They are the OUTFITS PR Gurus, who's job it is to keep the Federal Grants, and Funding, going for the Research Folks. They do NOT know JACK, about the issues, other than what they are told, and the NEWSies know even less and usually get the story WRONG, because of it.
    2. Since there wasn't any electronics in the 1800s, which was the last time our Sun decided to do something different, much of the BS these folks are hyping is pure SPECULATION, and at best, an Educated Wild-assed Guess.
    3. There just is NOT any Empirical Data, to support most of this BS, but it does make a Good Read, and a nice Movie Plot.
    4. Since the Above Ground, Air-bust Testing of Nuclear Weapons was halted by International Treaty, The EMP Effect hasn't been able to be tested in the Real World, and much of what we THINK we know, about the EMP Effect is from Computer Simulations designed to try and approximate the Data we did collect before the Test Ban Treaty was signed. Those simulations can be just another pile of Horse Dung, like the ones that ALGORE has been forcing down our throats for years, about Global Warming being Man Made.
    5. The ANSWER is, WE JUST DO NOT KNOW, how either, an Air-burst EMP Weapon, OR a natural Class X Super Flare, aimed directly at us, will impact the Electronics, in our world. It may wipe us out, or it may NOT, it isn't something that can be predicted, until it actually HAPPENS. There are a LOT of Wild-a**ed Guesses, speculation, and conjecture, but the SIMPLE FACTS ARE, We just do NOT Know. If you read someone that says they do know, they are full of BS, to the Nth Degree, and discount everything else they ever say.
    6. It never ceases to AMAZE "Me" when I read this drivel, at how the "Talking Heads" put in those FAMOUS Weasel Words, Could, Might, and Maybe. So when their BS is finally challenged, by FACTS, and REAL World Data, they can say, "Well we said, Could, and Might, and Maybe, and we just never knew, for sure." Total BS, Spin Doctoring... ..... YMMV.... with the density of your Tinfoil in your Hat.....
    Cephus, Kingfish, hank2222 and 2 others like this.
  6. Seawolf1090

    Seawolf1090 Retired Curmudgeonly IT Monkey Founding Member

    Several sites have mentioned the Government sponsored testing of cars for EMP effects, and a lot of conflicting info keeps getting bandied about. The main complaint seems to be the testing used a lower level of power, over a shorter period of time, than some theorists THINK will occur. So, as BTP says, we really just don't KNOW! Lots of variables in this. EMP power level, duration, distance, angle of the Earth, etc. [stirpot]
    Kingfish likes this.
  7. Ajax

    Ajax Monkey++

    That's good to know. One thing about the 1800 flare though, didn't it affect the telegraph system, archaic but electrical. But I would think that if it effected the telegraph system it would have some effect on modern wiring, hopefully not like some people say.
    Kingfish likes this.
  8. hank2222

    hank2222 Monkey+++

    most of my socalled electronics that i will need are stored in metal trash cans with emp proof bags i have bought and stored the items that i will need to have work in them

    each item is wraped in plastic bubble wrap then put into the bag to protect them from the socalled ground shock along with most of them are what is called military grade electronic's items from rifle red dot sight's to radio's & other items inside the bag's
    Kingfish likes this.
  9. Pyrrhus

    Pyrrhus Monkey+++

    Carrington Event

    Read up on the Carrington Event in 1859. It did effect electronics, specifically telegraphs. The operators unhooked the lines from electric power and could still send messages. There were reports of operators being shocked.

    There are a number of demonstrations that have proven that EMPs are real and that they have a significant impacts, especially on electronics that use integrated circuit cards (almost everything electronic made in the last 15 or so years).
    Kingfish likes this.
  10. Fresno45

    Fresno45 Monkey+

    Another interesting EMP Fiction book

    The Book Preppers Road March was a interesting and fun fictional account of someone surviving after a solar storm caused technology to fail
    Kingfish likes this.
  11. Tikka

    Tikka Monkey+++

    Back then the key (\Images\250px-J38TelegraphKey.jpg ) was part of the circuit.
    Today when Morse is transmitted the key closes the circuit to form the dits and dahs; the old land line telegraphs opened the circuit to send. It works exactly the opposite.
    When the op wasn't transmitting the bar at the lower left was pushed so the line was continuous. Any one key not making contact and the whole line is down.
    The speakers didn't make sound; they are mechanical relays all they did was click when the circuit was broken.

    During stronger solar storms the weather gets freaky. Back then they had miles and miles of wire to get hit by lightning or gather precipitation static. So I have no doubt they were shocked and often. LOL
    Kingfish likes this.
  12. peanut

    peanut Monkey+

    Was looking around at this site and from what I can gather, it seems that if it is not hooked up to the grid it will be ok. I think. It's a little over my head too. I would think if it is safe from EMP attack, it's safe from solar flares....
  13. BTPost

    BTPost Stumpy Old Fart,Deadman Walking, Snow Monkey Moderator

    The issue is, simply, that the last time the sun, went whacko, there were NO Electronics, of ANY Kind. All the telegraphs were Electro-Mechanical. This means that we just do NOT KNOW, how this may, or may not, effect the stuff we have today. What little REAL World Data we have seems to indicate that there could be some Grid interruptions, but the Truth of the Matter, is we just do NOT KNOW. Anything that stretches Copper, over long distances, thru the Air, will act as a collector, but just what that means is speculative, and a Guess. Educated guess, for sure but still a GUESS. ...... YMMV.....
    hank2222 likes this.
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